ScreamingDingo 20568 Share Posted June 11, 2017 1 minute ago, Babehab said: I dunno man. I'm a level 100 bloodmage right now I think I could beat those level 95 clerics 0 I'm a level 255 lich but I've got underleveled gear because they won't release the expansion to get more weapons. So it's really hard because the holy mages can grind level 300 gear and craft it with ease when they restricted craft times on us. Makes outputting heavy DPS hard in PVP when your tank has to use shitty level 200 armor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodEmperorFlam 3447 Share Posted June 11, 2017 I don't think this is a good fix, nor would I be enforcing it if someone tried to force implement the system. Holy trumps dark when in direct confrontations, that's the drawback to playing a spook, you're weak to certain ****. Spooks can still use voidal magic a majority of the time, along with other methods of combat to try and work around said weakness, but at the end of the day this is just messing with how the magics work inherently. Does holy v dark need balancing? Absolutely, but a system like this isn't the way to go about doing it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smaw 2376 Author Share Posted June 11, 2017 5 minutes ago, The Pink Lion said: I don't think this is a good fix, nor would I be enforcing it if someone tried to force implement the system. Holy trumps dark when in direct confrontations, that's the drawback to playing a spook, you're weak to certain ****. Spooks can still use voidal magic a majority of the time, along with other methods of combat to try and work around said weakness, but at the end of the day this is just messing with how the magics work inherently. Does holy v dark need balancing? Absolutely, but a system like this isn't the way to go about doing it. 0 There are considerable drawbacks to playing a spook (if it's written well) that exist outside of the realm of confrontation. For every Spirit a Dark Shaman may feasibly consume there are at least two drawbacks. What would you suggest in response? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killmatronix 103 Share Posted June 11, 2017 I'm sorry but, I cannot in no shape or form support this. I think it's stupid, see. If you base the magic on quantity over quality, then, as an example, 10 t1 holy mages could destroy the end boss. Let's say Orgon was as strong as that, as an orcish spirit. Of course, same **** could be said in vice versa. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GodEmperorFlam 3447 Share Posted June 11, 2017 5 minutes ago, Smaw said: There are considerable drawbacks to playing a spook (if it's written well) that exist outside of the realm of confrontation. For every Spirit a Dark Shaman may feasibly consume there are at least two drawbacks. What would you suggest in response? Yeah, considerable drawbacks to playing a spook that gets a bunch of magical power. D-shamans are conceptually one of the strongest "dark" magics due to the range of what it can do, of course it's going to have drawbacks outside of combat. Your proposed system here is just a blanket fix that doesn't actually look at the problems, it just pushes them under the rug while also simultaneously buffing dark creatures who should be weak to holy magic. Imo both sides would need a side by side overhaul in how their magic works fundamentally if you wanted to try and strive towards balancing, but that still wouldn't fix the OOC attitudes that some carry on both sides which makes the holy v spook such a shitshow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farryn 860 Share Posted June 11, 2017 Clerics only use the tiers for teaching purposes, to keep the spells in separate categories that can be learnt upon a certain amount of time. Plus we use the tiers to have an understanding of what so spells a cleric may know (Say a cleric was a tier 3 Priest healer, I would know that cleric understands all the spells up to tier three and no spells above that). I dislike using the tiers in combat means, as by going by the system, I can destroy a dark being who is tier one but is an expert at fighting. It does not balance light and dark out, rather makes it even more unfair. Myself and my clerics go by how we have developed both in magic and combat, and we do not fight based on who has the higher tier - rather who is the most logical and tactical in a fight. Plus it is extremely unfair to both sides, especially if you are just starting out as a holy user / dark user but you keep getting wrecked by the other side. Sure, holy users are to hunt dark users but we still want to be fair on them on an OOC level. I just cannot agree to this system. Also, clerics have been doing more hunts on dark beings. Just because you may not see us doing such in one location, does not mean we aren't hunting down spooks in another area. I have been teaching them than patrolling since many of them still need to learn war clericalism so they can go out hunting. But there are clerics still out there hunting, you just do not know who exactly is a cleric. :> Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smaw 2376 Author Share Posted June 11, 2017 10 minutes ago, Killmatronix said: I'm sorry but, I cannot in no shape or form support this. I think it's stupid, see. If you base the magic on quantity over quality, then, as an example, 10 t1 holy mages could destroy the end boss. Let's say Orgon was as strong as that, as an orcish spirit. Of course, same **** could be said in vice versa. 0 Let's be honest though, Antagonists don't follow Tier because most of them are created in a way as to be overbearing. Tiers assist in stopping players from reaching such ridiculous levels as well. 7 minutes ago, The Pink Lion said: Yeah, considerable drawbacks to playing a spook that gets a bunch of magical power. Yeah? That's the point though, isn't it? Quote D-shamans are conceptually one of the strongest "dark" magics due to the range of what it can do, of course it's going to have drawbacks outside of combat. This system would help to address this issue. Quote Your proposed system here is just a blanket fix that doesn't actually look at the problems, it just pushes them under the rug while also simultaneously buffing dark creatures who should be weak to holy magic. Not really. If a T2 Cleric confronted a T2 Dark Shaman, they would cancel one another out and the Cleric would win because he would be physically stronger. We can't really work to change the mentalities presented in this regard, but we can work in a way that can help to control it at some level, wouldn't you agree? 10 minutes ago, Farryn said: Plus it is extremely unfair to both sides, especially if you are just starting out as a holy user / dark user but you keep getting wrecked by the other side. Sure, holy users are to hunt dark users but we still want to be fair on them on an OOC level Arguably it creates a sense of concern that people simply don't have at the moment. If you're an apprentice, you should expect to be destroyed when a big, bad Lich comes along and tries to kill you. This would be where you would err on the side of caution, and why you would walk in numbers in order to improve your total tier level. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bvie 1754 Share Posted June 11, 2017 8 minutes ago, The Pink Lion said: I don't think this is a good fix, nor would I be enforcing it if someone tried to force implement the system. Holy trumps dark when in direct confrontations, that's the drawback to playing a spook, you're weak to certain ****. Spooks can still use voidal magic a majority of the time, along with other methods of combat to try and work around said weakness, but at the end of the day this is just messing with how the magics work inherently. Does holy v dark need balancing? Absolutely, but a system like this isn't the way to go about doing it. 0 This. As of late, I've seen the powercreep of spooks. Dark magic has no limits because there are no real rules they have to follow when creating new lore. The moment a new Dark Souls-esque game comes out, suddenly that Dark Magic is in LotC. Dark Magics are getting additions constantly, becoming stronger, more resistant to their counter. Holy Magic rarely gets a new addition, Clerics haven't gotten anything in 2 years (Divine Wardenism does not count as it was never taught and the only teacher doesn't play). When trying to get additions and lore passed, the hammer of rules and the question of 'Why would you even need to be stronger?' is asked. We're literally Aztec warriors with spears and loincloths trying to fight some modern age military system with nukes and satellite targeting. Have more combat oriented weaknesses. RP weaknesses for your character are cool aesthetic ones, but rarely will that ever trump the OOC desire of someone to do something. It's nice to think it would or does, but be serious. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babehab 386 Share Posted June 11, 2017 2 minutes ago, SquirtGun said: >I dislike having a chance to lose against an enemy that you rarely see and am too lazy to write an addition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bvie 1754 Share Posted June 11, 2017 Just now, Babehab said: >I dislike having a chance to lose against an enemy that you rarely see and am too lazy to write an addition. 0 I wrote a 35 page addition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dtrik 330 Share Posted June 11, 2017 Necros seem to always powergame their magics to two shot players while being untouchable and clerics powergame their magic by shooting "solid gold ball of light, the holy power of [god] instantly destroying another thing it would touch that may be evil" and then after shooting three of those emoting a nose bleed, only emoting strain after they have defeated a spook and not during the event. In my opinion it is not the system it is the players, each wants to one up each other because they want to win. And to the fact of undead having to hunt holy users that is all too true. No smart Lich is going to attack a wall of holy wards just to kill an op cleric. No one sends cav into pikemen and expect to win. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farryn 860 Share Posted June 11, 2017 1 minute ago, SquirtGun said: I wrote a 35 page addition. 0 ^^^ Lilyana literally did write an addition that was good for the clerics but it got declined for a vary of reasons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babehab 386 Share Posted June 11, 2017 I see and I understand, apologies. If I could make a suggestion, speak to multiple members of LT about an addition in the future. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurielle 1189 Share Posted June 11, 2017 8 minutes ago, SquirtGun said: When trying to get additions and lore passed, the hammer of rules and the question of 'Why would you even need to be stronger?' is asked. 9 minutes ago, SquirtGun said: 'Why would you even need to be stronger?' Because every other topic of discussion in spook chats is about holies having insta-kill spells and that spook combat is for the neutral/mundane folk and not the holies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bvie 1754 Share Posted June 11, 2017 Just now, Данстан said: Because every other topic of discussion in spook chats is about holies having insta-kill spells and that spook combat is for the neutral/mundane folk and not the holies. 0 Cleric's don't have insta-kill spells. And I've always seen the food chain, at least for Clerics, as: Holy>Dark>Mundane>Holy A sword to the face hurts a Cleric real bad. :( Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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