Looking for feedback on stopping "clique" magic

[_Jandy_ 3519]

3 minutes ago, Tox said:

And for your point, honestly handing over and planning your magic oocly is awful. I've been told of people trading skins or art to get magic taught to them. Not only for voidal but for Dark magics too etc. There should always be a lot of significant roleplay leading up to teaching.

I'd go so far as to say that this can sometimes even influence choices about who is brought onto a particular staff team.

[WuHanXianShi14 0]

Cliques arent the issue, most major magic groups arent cliquey. If anything druids, clerics, ascended and spooks have caught rap for letting TOO many people in and declining in RP quality because of it. Too many overbloated magic types is the issue.

[Eurielle 1189]

 

2 hours ago, Narthok said:

By humans I refer to mainstream feudal kingdom humans rather than short eared elves

Become ethnic.

[drfate786 1690]

4 hours ago, fighting evil by moonlight said:

-Snip-
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The answer is simple, remove all forms of disconnection and if a clique forms, give some random player outside of that clique a variation of that magic that can be used to destroy the clique. Ie, if necromancy ever becomes a clique simply have someone outside of that clique disassemble it bit by bit from the outside.

 

As it is currently, disconnection is what allows cliques to form. IE, if a necromancer deviates from the main group they risk being "clotted" which is just another way of saying disconnection. If a druid goes rogue they risk being disconnected, if a cleric goes rogue "poof" disconnected. By allowing disconnection to exist you are allowing these groups to moderate their own magic which forms the cliques. Get rid of disconnection and punish those who have been using it to moderate their cliques.

[fighting evil by moonlight 455]

2 minutes ago, drfate786 said:

The answer is simple, remove all forms of disconnection

 

tbh i completely agree with this and always have, save for deity magics where going against a deity should have a consequence

[drfate786 1690]

1 hour ago, WuHanXianShi14 said:

Cliques arent the issue, most major magic groups arent cliquey. If anything druids, clerics, ascended and spooks have caught rap for letting TOO many people in and declining in RP quality because of it. Too many overbloated magic types is the issue.

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Not true at all, the druids are open to new members but are very cringy and at times will disconnect their members for going rogue. Meanwhile, clerics will disconnect you as soon as you go rogue or do something that they despise. Least but not all, the moment you do something the other necromancers hate you get clotted/disconnected by a pack of raving liches. The issue here is clear, remove disconnection so people can deviate and assert forms of control for undead. 

3 minutes ago, fighting evil by moonlight said:

 

tbh i completely agree with this and always have, save for deity magics where going against a deity should have a consequence

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Yes, that is up to the LT who play the deity though. Currently, an Ascended teacher with disconnection can disconnect an Ascended that hasn't gone against Aeriel's wishes.

2 hours ago, Tox said:

 

Ah yes, OOCly enforcing things over RP, the thing is Magic has always been inherently open and free. People just won't teach random folk, I don't think you would teach a complete stranger something rather sacred if they came up and asked you to. Just let people RP magic, let them RP spreading it if they want. Look at me, I took a magic that was extremely "cliquey", the Displacement magic that makes magic fast travels, and gave it to almost twenty other people, who in return gave it to more. Literally, do something about it in roleplay. Only time there should be heavy ooc enforcement is when the magic isnt being taught correctly, used correctly, or its being traded OOCly.

 

And for your point, honestly handing over and planning your magic oocly is awful. I've been told of people trading skins or art to get magic taught to them. Not only for voidal but for Dark magics too etc. There should always be a lot of significant roleplay leading up to teaching.

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All of what you are suggesting is invalid if disconnection remains. You can't spread a magic if the teachers will disconnect you the moment they catch wind of it.

3 hours ago, _Jandy_ said:

I hope that you understand that their are different types of "cliques". For example shamanism is typically restrained to experienced orc players, this makes sense in rp. Then there are cliques where a friend offers magic over discord voice chat or even something like

to get into a circle jerk.

I'm drawing a blank on how to bust up cliques except for investigating magic groups one by one and then blacklisting people who are doing shady ****. GL with whatever you decide to do though.

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abcabc

 

Yes, this is something that does happen. This is why magic users should be subject to lose their TA's over OOC bullshit like this. No disconnection needed, if they're teaching magic through OOC means via skype or discord simply blacklist them from teaching it and hand out hefty shaftings to the rest of them. Simple, effective.

[drfate786 1690]

3 hours ago, Narthok said:

By humans I refer to mainstream feudal kingdom humans rather than short eared elves

More of an ability to smite the undead with holy water or something along those lines. Human dieties literally don't do anything beyond give us a casus belli for wars. Every other race gets some kind of niche magic with the exception of humanity.

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I agree, it's stupid that human deities do absolutely nothing. We need real deities with actual lore if we are to have anything proper, however making them able to blast spooks to death is.. Dumb. If we do that we'd have to get rid of the Ascended or clerics to some degree or the balance of power will be shifted. The only reason why Ascended and friends can't dominate the undead is simply because of the same players running the same group for so long that they just don't hunt them anymore. A lack of the right people will do that.

[fighting evil by moonlight 455]

1 minute ago, Final said:

i also have to know; are you the only teacher of the magic that turns boys gay?

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as far as i know

[overlord2305 202]

Event team could have actors make temp 'mysterious strangers' (wizards elemementals etc etc) go to people who have shown interest in a magic but can't learn it due to this issue and give them a oppertunity to learn through said actor's charachter

[overlord2305 202]

44 minutes ago, Final said:

 

selective favortism

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Making it application based could sort that out

[PraiseTheLord 868]

Too many magic users

[Zacho 2177]

6 hours ago, drfate786 said:

If we do that we'd have to get rid of the Ascended or clerics to some degree or the balance of power will be shifted.

another 'lets get rid of the ascended' post woooo

6 hours ago, drfate786 said:

Yes, that is up to the LT who play the deity though. Currently, an Ascended teacher with disconnection can disconnect an Ascended that hasn't gone against Aeriel's wishes.

Wheres your proof fam, not trying to be salty but i am honestly curious

6 hours ago, drfate786 said:

All of what you are suggesting is invalid if disconnection remains. You can't spread a magic if the teachers will disconnect you the moment they catch wind of it.

Yeah, its like life. If you shoot someone you werent supposed to shoot as a cop. your getting removed and likely sent to jail, thats just how things work.

4 hours ago, overlord2305 said:

Event team could have actors make temp 'mysterious strangers' (wizards elemementals etc etc) go to people who have shown interest in a magic but can't learn it due to this issue and give them a oppertunity to learn through said actor's charachter

Yeah but you dont have enough of an even spread of teachers and this ruins the very important piece that magic should be rare in some points, like mental magic and things like that.

6 hours ago, Final said:

also the fact that spooks are really hard to kill because phylacteries, and infinite crystals that are hidden deep within the depths of god knows where. You can only continually kill the same lich for so long before it gets boring.

Also the essentially t6 magic thing like archon and keepers don't work and should be gone with imo. But for celestials i give full props to kittens because he can do it right and the lore is like a t6 magic but has a load of fluffy cool stuff in it. its also well written to not make them just ******* bonkers op as soon as they get it. You also get rid of the problem of power struggles. Obviously keepers don't work now and shouldn't have been accepted imo, they create a 'follow my orders or get disconnected' thing nigh instantly. Then the Archons are floating through walls or some ****, immune to actually dying if it comes down to it, while still casting 6 different magics they have, all t5. Liches phylactery are just as annoying and honestly if it wasn't for the fact that it becomes 'ill just come back anyway' ruins the rp aspect, but they aren't always at fault considering no one want's to pk, and i'm guilty myself, but i set a goal for my char and hes soon to be done with it so it might end up with him dead soon, once he does it.

[Ducklingator 795]

so. 

 

Magic circlejerks:

 

I'm not the most experienced person on the server, but I've been a mage with a TA for well over a year now. I've had so many people come to me, say "my friend said you're a mage!" or "hey you look very smart! do you know magic?" which is something I, personally, think is a great excuse to bring the topic up. If the person lies/just straight up refuses to teach with no further explanation, it could either be 1. You're asking to learn some big, important magic or something that is taboo in most places, or 2. They're just not willing to learn. (Which is bad). 

 

But, surprise surprise, walking up to someone and telling them "hi. teach me magic!" won't work. Most good mages will care about how much you'd do RPly to stand up to their expectations. Go to a library, read a book on magic, look at exactly what you want to learn and understand just why you want to learn it. Do some research before you approach a mage. Even though it might look common, magic isn't going to be served to you on a silver platter.

 

 

Cliques:

 

I agree that this is a problem, but mostly on voidal/dark magic. Deity-based magic requires users to follow some rules; they have the magic because the aengul they serve grants it.

 

On other magics, though, I agree that it's a problem. I hardly see humans becoming mages, usually because people have this mindset that 'magic takes long to learn, so teaching it to a human is inefficient'. Someone coming up with a way for humans to increase their lifespan by a good amount sounds good, because the human curse is definitely the worst one. As for magic requiring them to give up their culture/religion, most canonists are very opposed to magic, for one reason or another. I don't think it's the teachers that require their students to give up religion, as much as it is the religion requiring it's followers not to learn magic.

 

also if you need to jerk someone off for magic you're going to the wrong people. just saying

[Ambduscias 1028]

itt people who think magics being "open" increases quality of rp

 

when you have a magic that gets handed out to anyone who asks, you get groups like [redacted] with no quality control and they lose sight of their original purpose and get lost in the sauce of cute family and romance rp. honestly, it's not even just [redacted]; i can name four or fice magics like [redacted] that no longer fit with their theme because they take in people who want power and don't have an interest in keeping to thematics.

 

people can accuse me/aerial of being cliquey w/ azdrazi but if you're a good roleplayer who is willing to abide by the culture and lore (while promoting decent RP) there's a 95% chance of you getting turned. the same can be said for at least *a few* other creatures, like Darkstalkers/Ghouls (which become shitty when too overpopulated) so a little bit of exclusion is necessary. 

 

also humans shouldn't get fucked on when it comes to learning magic as badly as they currently are. literally the only decent (human) wizard ended up becoming a lich before too long. 

 

on the other hand some voidal magics really have no reason to be cliquey but get chokeholded by """guilds""" who demand cooperation. it'd be nice if the occasional LT event could teach a few others to bust up a hegemony.

[Jentos 9422]

2 hours ago, Zacho said:

becomes

Alright, I agree for most of the things you have to say, except for the phylactery stuff, sure, it's annoying, but at least you have a way of killing them, (oh wait I play à lich ofc Im defending 'em)  if I took the ascended you were defending, they'll just constantly come back, this is the same for a variety of other creatures. Also, there are more ways to killing a lich permanently.

 

now in terms of cliques, I agree in most cases it can't be very annoying not to have access to other types of cool (in most cases very appealing magics) but most will be given out to people that the teacher trusts, what I mean by this, is that the teacher knows this person we'll for his or her's roleplay quality, or in other cases, it might very well be a struck of luck. Luck is your best friend when getting magic. 

 

Now in terms of people complaining that feudal type humans cannot get magic, in most cases this is true, I highly suggest trying to figure out what magic related lore that human should could use, you say elves get most magic, make your ******* own human magic. I feel like what I wrote may be some dumb ****, but have mercy on me, I still have to accept the shiftiness of my rep ratio.