[Your View]Coups

[Guest]

Below is a suggestion of coup guidelines and rules, this draft is not finished and we would like to hear the community views on what they would like if these were to be added?

 

Questions to consider while looking over this:

Do you want to have coups?

What changes are needed to these rules to make them fairer and to prevent loopholes?

What did we miss from this draft?

What else could we do to allow coups to happen on lotc?

 

Coup Guidelines and Rules

 

 

---

What is a coup?

A coup is when a group of people attempt to overthrow a nation's leadership or settlements leadership with the help of a government official(s). This is done either through force or diplomatic means. This can be done for many reasons usually though due to poor leadership choices.

Coups do not need to be lead by the government members partaking in the coup.

 

---

Below is a checklist of what would be needed if you wish to coup!

An application form will be created which only management can see, they will choose which non-related moderators oversee the coup and its details.

 

The Application form must be submitted at least one week prior to the suggested date of the coup  

 

1. Four Government Officials must back a coup

• Government officials are Council members documented on the forums, must provide the link to forum post confirming their position.  

• At least 2 of these government members must hold RO of the nation/charter  

 

2. Depending on the size of nation/charter a certain amount of citizens will be required.

•  Must be able to prove Citizenship and not be alts

•  Nations - 8 citizens required

              T3 charters - 5 citizens required

              T2 charters - 3 citizens required

              T1 charters - 2 citizens required

 

3. Your group’s RP reasoning for the coup, the following reasons must have proof and be verified by the moderation team/admins

•  only one of these may be used per coup

• reasons for couping
  -  Failure to protect citizens from outside forces
  -  Inactive Pro

                   

4. Must provide a detailed plan of the coup

•    Including two government buildings to take control of completely during the coup, in case  the pro and remaining government cannot be captured

•     Location where they plan to start the heist

•   Date and time of the coup
   

5. Proposed outcome and leadership following a successful coup

 

6. Each Coup will Cost 20,000 minas which must be paid in advance to moderation management.
   
     

The following information and guidelines will be given/apply to the pro of nation/charter prior to coup

      1. Pro being couped will be informed once coup is approved but will not be informed who is  partaking in the coup

     2. PRO cannot remove government members once informed of the coup

    3. PRO can call for allies and their armies. Allies must be official on the forms.
 

   4. PRO and RO cannot remove players on regions once informed of a coup.

•  unless approved by moderation team members overseeing the coup.  

 

---

Rules during coup

 

During a coup, the following rules must be followed

General rules -

• Coups will last a maximum of one hour from when the overseeing GM says the coup is a go.

• Coup must take place during peak server hours.

• If the attacking group is discovered or attacked by members of the defending region, the defending region will be granted Defender Default. The attacking group can be killed on sight.

• Server rules will apply, including combat rules.  

 

Attacking side -

• Only those on the application may partake in the coup, no others may join.  

• Must take control of the two buildings detailed in their plan. Or must be killed/capture pro and council to win the coup.

 

---

After a coup, the following would  apply!!

 

Coup Cooldown

• After a successful coup on a nation/charter, another may not happen for one month

• After a failed coup on a nation/charter.  another may not happen for two months
  
   

Leadership Changes

• If successful PRO must be handed to the leader of the Coup within 3 days.

• If those couping hold lands/dependant on the nation or on the nation lands, their lands are forfeited to that nation, with no war claim needed
  
   

 

Permakill

• If successful the pro and captured government may be killed and pk’d

• If unsuccessful those couping, whether killed in combat or captured then killed will be pk’d

 

These pk’s are enforced and part of the risk in doing a coup.!
 

 

---

 

Thanks to the Nation Leaders Chat for their assistance in writing and suggestions.  

Written by Ankan and Pun with support from the moderation team

[Monkee 7369]

A coup should take a majority of RO’s to initiate. Nothing less.

[Hearth 1082]

I believe coups should be made and executed purely rply, no complex rules to follow it, aswell as the pk rule leaving room for people to target a certain persona by spamming pvp goons at them till they win out of spite, *cough* 

[Enlightenment 2295]

I concur with Hearth

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, Aeldrin said:

A coup should take a majority of RO’s to initiate. Nothing less.

 

 

As I've explained before,

the Region Owners system is abusable more than ever because a pro could just put one on the region. Hence a mixture of officially listed government members and RO is the solution to this.

 

14 minutes ago, Hearth said:

I believe coups should be made and executed purely rply, no complex rules to follow it, aswell as the pk rule leaving room for people to target a certain persona by spamming pvp goons at them till they win out of spite, *cough* 

 

So the pk rule has added risk for both sides, it is not perfect but it also makes sense in terms of death either side would be the logical thing to happen during/after a coup. 

Sorry to say due to the nature of LOTC rules for this are very much needed if coups are to happen.

[Enlightenment 2295]

I’ve been a part of a few good number of coups and they were all done purely through roleplay and all pretty much went off without a hitch.

[Jondead 260]

As long as they are purely Roleplay based and won’t have PvP we are good, and perhaps a PK clause as it breaks the Descendant Peace thing blah blah Iblees blah blah, though I would love if any group could coup just saying, not just Nation Based ones, it would end up in my personal opinion making dynamic roleplay that much more exciting.

[Monkee 7369]

17 minutes ago, Pun said:

As I've explained before,

the Region Owners system is abusable more than ever because a pro could just put one on the region. Hence a mixture of officially listed government members and RO is the solution to this.

I don’t trust staff to come up with a viable list of government officials. Every nation I know of has a leading council of some sort. Just make it a requirement that those councilors have RO. It’s unrealistic that some low level gov member, an unpowerful diplomat or judge, would be able to launch a coup – and it should go without saying that there should be a majority of these RO’s in support of a coup to support that there’s probable cause and genuinely the will of the nation’s constituents.

[Viltaren 236]

I am choosing to repost something I already said in nation lead chat here, for more people to see. 

I would like to make it clear the following isn't a “woe is me” sort of thing. It’s purpose is to point out how toxic these things can be. 

“The reason why I still think the best option is removal is that the flaws are too deep. The issues with the system are major and gameable. You already have the most powerful nation on the server saying that they will abuse these rules to get more powerful. Not as a threat, but as a reality of the system you are making. In addition to this, I believe that the main effects are OOC. In that it is majorly OOCly damaging to a player to have this occur against them, and in many cases would end with the player leaving the server for an extended time. Even if the coup isn't successful, the emotional toll it takes is heavy. And if coups fail, it can lead to multi month long conflict and grudges that live OOC not IC. All in all, I believe that Coups are a toxic part of the server, and the server is best without them. Though there may always be a winner per say, there is always a side grievously impacted by the loss.”

In that text there I am referencing a lot of what I saw during the Empire’s attempt to coup Sutica.
The coup did not go through because there was no rules. However, that did not stop its effects in the ooc community.
Sutica lost multiple people that were dear parts of the community because of it. These people were embittered by the failure of the coup.
I watched over months as Unwillingly was repeatedly contacted OOC and IC with people begging her to step down and just hand over the throne. I saw the stress it put on her. People who were once important parts of the community grew to hate and berate us on other discords, people would take their ooc grudges into RP and insult our characters despite never seeing us or interacting with us before.
The literal first thing I did as a leader of Sutica was tend to one such meeting where they were trying to force and convince me to give up the nation. Even though the leader they had sought to coup was now gone. This was an act that made no logical sense at this point, yet still it continued. 

My point is not a “woe is me, times were so bad.” My point is that Coups are trash for the OOC climate of a community, and their being allowed at all breeds hatred and division amongst players that would otherwise be friends and rp together. 

I am blessed to be on considerably better terms with the people who were a part of that, but It was damage that had to be repaired with time and a lot of effort. 
There's no reason to invite that again.

[Lasombruh 612]

I voted no on this for the same reason that others above did. It should be left purely for the players to roleplay. This process of making apps and having strict requirements seems more like a chore than something I’d want to do for entertainment. Having all of these rules takes away from the plethora of different scenarios that can play out and instead narrows it down to something more along the lines of ehat seems to me like a crappy quest. “Do this. Make this. Get this many people. Do this....” rinse and repeat yata yata yata, you get the point. 

 

What I’m trying to get at (but probably failing miserably at) is that when things like this are put into place, they take away from the unpredictability and overall quality of the roleplay that is possible without things like this. Coups should already be a thing but without all the guidelines and rules.

[Morigung-oog 5697]

Viva la revolution! >:D

[Hearth 1082]

2 hours ago, Pun said:

 

 

As I've explained before,

the Region Owners system is abusable more than ever because a pro could just put one on the region. Hence a mixture of officially listed government members and RO is the solution to this.

 

So the pk rule has added risk for both sides, it is not perfect but it also makes sense in terms of death either side would be the logical thing to happen during/after a coup. 

Sorry to say due to the nature of LOTC rules for this are very much needed if coups are to happen.

Hardly seems fair on a nation leader for their pk to be put at the same risk as that of a group of spammy clicker goons trying to take them down oocly

[Imperium 3495]

Setting up a system of rules and applications leaves room for abuse. The government officials apart of the coup should actually be high ranking. 

 

However, I do believe setting up a system for coups will be abused and limits rp. If a nation truly wants a new leader a coup can be done through rp, having this system would just come down to who has the better pvp goons on their side.

[Skyrunner 257]

The existence of rules will inherently lead to the abuse of these rules especially if there is a forced PK clause attached to them. Not to mention that these coup rules change nothing as it is just as easily abusable as the RO rule and they wouldn’t even if subjects themselves could coup a nation. A nation could just not give out housing to anyone. If there is a roleplay reason for a coup let it happen, the creation of rules which attempt to structure conflict through ooc means will just lead to people acting through ooc means. If you hoped this would make governments more dynamic, you are greatly mistaken. As this only gives more reason for the politics of this server to be run oocly and will lead to the same clique continuing to lead a government because of trust that they will not coup.

TLDR: These rules change nothing and will only lead to more OOC frustration and fighting in the future

[Imperium 3495]

9 minutes ago, Skyrunner said:

The existence of rules will inherently lead to the abuse of these rules especially if there is a forced PK clause attached to them. Not to mention that these coup rules change nothing as it is just as easily abusable as the RO rule and this wouldn’t even if subjects themselves could coup a nation. A nation could just not give out housing to anyone. If there is a roleplay reason for a coup let it happen, the creation of rules which attempt to structure conflict through ooc means will just lead to people acting through ooc means. If you hoped this would make governments more dynamic, you are greatly mistaken. As this only gives more reason for the politics of this server to be run oocly and will lead to the same clique continuing to lead a government because of trust that they will not coup.

TLDR: These rules change nothing and will only lead to more OOC frustration and fighting in the future

Big agree +1