The State of The Void

[Evil_macaroni 44]

Hello forum frequenters! For the better part of a year now I've been quite interested in pursuing plots that involve the void. I've always been a big fan of elemental magics in popular media and the "arcanist" trope has always been among my most favored when it comes to roleplay. As such, when I first heard of the void I was quite excited. I found the established voidal world lore to be quite compelling.

Still, where I've felt a lot of excitement for the void I've also felt a lot of frustration. Seeing how frequently interesting rewrites get denied along with how the modern void feels like a punching bag that constantly receives more and more nerfs, I can't help but feel like the compelling world lore surrounding the void is being wasted. I was introduced to the server by a friend who told me insanely cool stories about an "Enchantry" back in Arcas and about a huge diversity of plots that arose from some kind of voidal golden age in the past.

However, I've also been made aware of a time in which the voidal magics were too powergameable. How things like "Voidal Archons" and Lightning evocation were of the most broken magics of their time. Despite this, it feels as though there's too much pent-up resentment for these lore pieces that to my knowledge, existed 2 or 3 years ago. To me, this is counterintuitive to creating good stories when members of the various voidal communities attempt to push forward interesting literature only to be instantly shut down.

I write this post for one main purpose. I want to know the perspective of the community at large. Preferably those who've had experience with the void however I would also like to hear some perspectives from even those outside of it.
 

-What is the void to you?

 

-What do you think are the problems with the void, if any?

 

-What pieces of voidal lore do you wish were rewritten or received additions?

 

-What do you envision the void being in the future?

 

[squakhawk 8100]

While I agree with your first bit, old void magic was a lot of people pushing the boundaries of what was considered acceptable strength and people just copying and following the same moves in a pretty unoriginal manner. The 1st and 2nd void project expanded significantly on the void, adding not only more to each of the magics, but aswell a plethora of worldlore with heaths and flora, but aswell a full reimagining of tears, obelisks, relays, hollows, spellforging (which is criminally underutilized because people are so scared of an mart timer that’s not going to change they wait months instead of sucking up and doing it) and an entire class of feats which have been wildly successful in promoting character diversification and promotion of prowess. Arcane Scion is one of the “stronger” (if you’re looking at this like a game, which i don’t) feats on the server and voidstalker is pretty powerful too. Artificery is flavor galore and eminence needs work but I had to cut its main spell blueprint system to pass the votes. 

 

Since then there’s been a bit added to the void and a few attempts at rewrites (like with void project 3) but none can take off because the writers have been pretty stubborn. Enchantments were in recent memory objectively better than mages in every sense of the manner, and it was rediculous many voidal mages were just okay with being relegated to “4 months to be worse than an item”. So we nerfed enchantments for non mages and while that upset some people, i’m not going to be deterred because I know it was the right choice to make. 

 

 

I think the problem with void magic, if any, is just that it’s the most accessible. Not only this, but it’s got the widest shotgun spread of ideas of where people want to go with it. Personally, I see that as it’s absolute strength. We have tools to empower people to make their brand of voidal magic popular, and others to disagree and make their own too. Unfortunately some just see that they have to push to make others recognize their style and give up and take the bare minimum path. But from what i’ve seen and understand, there’s really only a fringe group of people infected with contagious doomerism obsessed with saying voidal magic has nothing in comparison to say, a dark magic. I think it’s extremely unfair to say every magic should be comparable in strength because of not only flavor and theme, but the actual mechanics of the magic in it of itself. Voidmages more or less are acceptable anywhere and don’t provide any symptoms. Outside of pixel-greedy nations who take a more liberal view on bloodmagic, darkmages are in accepted and often give all their slots (permanently for some magics) for a magic which often isn’t very comprehensive in its capabilities, and is highly reliant on other people to do things.

 

Voidal magic is a character building magic. It relies on people to have goals and motivations and to not be told what to do, which is sometimes its fault as that’s what people want. Voidal feats and some of the voidal constructs like tears and obelisks are meant to stand against that, but most people view those as just standard ground level to-do list things rather than achievements. 

 

The only thing I personally would fix with voidmagic is an overhaul of evos to allow for a more heavy focus (if one desired) into a specific evo. Like if I dedicated two slots to water evo, i’d get a ton of cool new spells. Personally that’s all i’d really ever support outside of more group activities with constructs or voidal feats, and maybe if I ever retune eminence with my main system for it. 

[LoTC's Next Top Model 713]

the problem with the void is that it requires constant moderation for freeform shit to exist, and noone actually wants to do that moderation, so shit gets blanket denied. back in the old days when you could make 'discoveries' and make new magic things, each new discovery was functionally a new aspect of lore added to the server. this would compound onto itself until it hit a breaking point, which in game was around when people were combining dozens of features in order to make functional star-trek esque space/airships with holographic assistants (everyone ******* had one of these back in the day), functioning computer screens (everyone had voidal horror powered cell phones back then, too), functional levitation and flight capabilities, organic sensing automatic opening doors, and etc. it actually really went this far.

the problem with void magic to me, largely, is how people perceive it rather than how it actually is. the only times void magic gets nerfs is when it's outwardly crazy massively overpowered, in recent memory namely translocation which let you pull the classic "i channeled for one emote therefore on my second emote i can melee hit someone with a bomb and warp on top of a nearby roof and escape instantly!", which was a real occurence that happened more often than you'd think. for a while, each time this happened the weapon the translocater used was nerfed instead of translocation, and then translocation, being the actual problem, was finally nerfed... and nothing else got buffed again in compensation. translocation successfully brought a ton of things down with it, and is still arguably the strongest voidal magic.

on the flipside, conjuration (: )) has recieved numerous buffs in the relatively recent era, reducing casting time, increasing spell capabilities, etc.

so it's not just random nerfs everywhere becuase "grr lt hate void magic!", and they're really not that imposing in general.

these two outlier magics, notably, are the non-elemental magics. the elemental magics, alternatively, are basically the same they've ever been, and colour a lot of peoples perception of the magic. two thirds of the magics in voidery are elemental evocations, which are just kinda... boring? you can't do much with them which hasn't already been done (without venturing into whacky territory, which people seldom do). which is why not much really happens with them, buffs or nerfs. in contrast, translocation gets edits because it's a power magic mim-maxers take and therefore the squeakiest wheel in the void wagon. conjuration has a much more active dedicated userbase of people who are invested in it/based characters around it, so people write more stuff for it. on the downslope, transfiguration is the centerpiece magic that's basically a requirement to do anything, and therefore is very dangerous to change, so it rarely is. noone knows illusion so noone cares, so noone touches it.

this isn't to say any of the magics that are untouched are bad, nor are they perfect. it's a lack of interest, or lack of ideas, that keeps cool rewrites from actually happening more than anything.

so, what's my solution?

/new/ magics. voidal magics right now are a very strong core for a magic system, but there is plenty of new ground to tread with the idea of "pulling shit from infinity" that just isn't tread. people who arn't interested in being an elemancer just don't have much to look forward to when it comes to voidal magic, so there's a natural block to the kinds of characters it attracts. one or two new voidal magics could re-invogorate the entire community, even if they're low-key well balanced non-insane magics. just having more options in an archetype that strongly encourages remaining within it's borders (through things like high compatability and interactivity between magics, and the capstone feats available to those who stack void).

if i could make one change, it'd be making transfig one slot and making enchanting just a base part of voidal magic. transfig as it stands is basically just two slots because enchanting is part of it, as a magic it's fundamentally just a reskin of doing whatever task you're doing with it without magic. it's almost 100% flavour... and yet is /two slots/, because one of the main features of voidal magic is haphazardly stapled to it. it can be argued this is a power tax because enchanting is super op or it limits magic combinations, but this falls apart because co-enchanting exists. you can choose to forgo it completely, and just have a friend who knows it, and your ability to enchant is not affected whatsoever. (you may notice i have not mentioned warding once; this is because warding is insanely weak. spend three emotes casting a spell that can cancel another spell as long as you also know the same magic being cast... or spend three emotes casting your own spell and hitting them, therefore interupting their connection. or spend those emotes shooting a bow. or closing the gap and stabbing them. or doing literally anything else.)

other than that, i think the archetype is healthy, if lacking for new magics.
 

[Evil_macaroni 44]

6 hours ago, squakhawk said:

Since then there’s been a bit added to the void and a few attempts at rewrites (like with void project 3) but none can take off because the writers have been pretty stubborn. Enchantments were in recent memory objectively better than mages in every sense of the manner, and it was rediculous many voidal mages were just okay with being relegated to “4 months to be worse than an item”. So we nerfed enchantments for non mages and while that upset some people, i’m not going to be deterred because I know it was the right choice to make. 

I'm actually very like minded in almost everything you mentioned in your post. The only thing that I personally disagree with is the enchantment sickness. While I do understand the reasoning, I think it was far too big of an overcorrection to the other end. It's impossible to deny that mina is an essential part of the server. Between things like nation maintenance, tile purchasing, tile upkeep all the way to purchasing ct items or in general trading for goods, mina runs a lot of how the server operates at a foundational level. The enchantment changes make it almost impossible for mages to be able to leverage their economic force. A warrior has no reason to purchase an enchanted item if they will be useless after using it. A compromise somewhere in the middle would've probably been a closer solution. Perhaps making it so that there is a limit to the level of spell that can be enchanted onto an item or make it so enchants with spells of higher levels cause the sickness instead.

 

6 hours ago, squakhawk said:

The only thing I personally would fix with voidmagic is an overhaul of evos to allow for a more heavy focus (if one desired) into a specific evo. Like if I dedicated two slots to water evo, i’d get a ton of cool new spells. Personally that’s all i’d really ever support outside of more group activities with constructs or voidal feats, and maybe if I ever retune eminence with my main system for it. 

 

As for this, I already mentioned it in dms but I absolutely love and have been wanting this for quite a while now. Very awesome concept.

 

4 hours ago, LoTC's Next Top Model said:

the problem with void magic to me, largely, is how people perceive it rather than how it actually is. the only times void magic gets nerfs is when it's outwardly crazy massively overpowered, in recent memory namely translocation which let you pull the classic "i channeled for one emote therefore on my second emote i can melee hit someone with a bomb and warp on top of a nearby roof and escape instantly!", which was a real occurence that happened more often than you'd think. for a while, each time this happened the weapon the translocater used was nerfed instead of translocation, and then translocation, being the actual problem, was finally nerfed... and nothing else got buffed again in compensation. translocation successfully brought a ton of things down with it, and is still arguably the strongest voidal magic.

 

I resonate with a few points in your reply, especially about transfig. I do feel like tfig being 2 slots is a bit absurd, especially after the recent enchantment sickness along with the already existing issues like abjuration being quite underpowered. However I think it's not really fair to lay most of the blame on translocation for "bringing a ton of things down with it". To me, the problems with void magic are much more systemic. On one end, the culture around lore applications seems to have left a big portion of voidal mages very jaded, and so during many of my conversations, I am often faced with a constant barrage of people saying "this would never be approved" "that'll never work" and a general putting down of many ideas I've tried coming up with. Then, on the other side it does feel as though there is a lack of transparency and overall communication with ST, leaving both groups completely disconnected from each other.

 

Using the example of enchantment sickness again, I firmly believe that if that change had been discussed publicly with other mage roleplayers, it would not have resulted in as many people complaining and perhaps could've even become more suited to both parties' desires. One group is trying very desperately to create cool plots that fulfill their roleplay needs and desires, and another group is desperately trying to keep an overall cohesive story that doesn't fall apart. These two don't have to operate separately, and in fact, should more often than not operate together.

 

That is my opinion on what the real problem is with the void. Squak also mentioned in his reply about a lot of writers having too much of an ego and being unwilling to change things about their literature. While that's very likely true, I also feel like there are a lot of egos that are constantly clashing on both sides. It's unfair to pin the entirety of the blame on a single group, magic, person, etc.