[✓] [Feat + CA] Vampirism

[The King Of The Moon 7016]

4 minutes ago, MysticalWeasel said:

so would love to see they are incredibly weak to Argentum, merely touching it sizzling their skin. And any reflection cast by Argentum does not show the vampires form

They are already as weak to Argentum as they are to Aurum, as specified in the Aurum Bane.

The reasons for which being that they are undead beings who in-universe Aurum is already precedented to affect, thanks to established narrative (Gold attracts lifeforce, which undead beings hold unnaturally). Silver has no inherent magical properties and wouldn't make sense without a separate revision (really, retcon) of the material in lore.
 

25 minutes ago, MysticalWeasel said:

I think something more interesting to see would be mirroring the real world's folklore of vampirism.

Beyond this there are already the salt, fire and sunlight banes (borne of their own background world lore precedents Nine Archons lore) which were of course inspired by folklore and made to make sense within lotc's logic. This lore is intended to build upon what already exists in lord of the craft, not necessarily ape pop culture concepts without regard for our setting. 

This piece is also strictly against any sort of 'touching X does this' as it would go against post-loregames precedent on testing/ revealing CAs. When creatures are subject to 100% accurate testing it becomes very, very easy for these tests to be used in bad faith and to justify metagaming. I'm content with the current compromises in that regard; when not fed these creatures can be revealed with relative ease using salt or in the case of withered moroi simply revealing their black, putrid blood.
 

4 hours ago, kuebiko said:

however, the salt bane written the way it is only feeds the current issue of darkspawn testing and causes vampires to be too easy to reveal

In the same vein this has been changed from current corcituri which are at the time of writing revealed regardless of any efforts to mask themselves. The revised weakness empowers vampires with the ability to blend in, at the cost of playing their role as blood-addicted monsters who suffer if they do not go out and feed. There should be a cost to vampirism. 
 

4 hours ago, kuebiko said:

adjust it so if you have been turned a second time

On a related note, there should be weight to the choices of players and the actions of characters. OOC consent is required for a corcitură to be cured; no other player can force someone to lose the feat. This is a choice that should not be taken lightly and, in past iterations of the lore it was made lightly by corcituri flipflopping between cursed and cured on a regular whim, which led to very poor roleplay and a disregard for in-character values and narrative weight. A cured corcitură can still becoming a moroi, and in this regard can return to the niche but will (as they should) have to double down on their commitment to such. A Feat can be light touch and reversible, a CA - especially an undead CA - should not be.
 

3 hours ago, iris1612 said:

just to medium density boomsteel specifically. since medium density actually produces flame

This makes sense, and has been edited. Thank you!
 

3 hours ago, lemonke said:

IMO that kind of accursed sociopath mentality is something we've seen too many times and is the same thing over and over, which is why some CAs are just plain boring or inactive.

These are undead creatures with a lineage tracing back to the foot soldiers of our universe's main antagonist, which are sustained by the blood of living people. Though I understand vampirism in other fantasy settings can be presented in a more light-hearted, social manner (and between moroi this is the case), within the context of our lore there's little wiggle room for such between these creatures and descendants whom are by definition their prey. In this regard moroi - as with all ibleesian and many undead creatres - are inherently evil by descendant standards.
This vision is already elaborated in Mental State, where the option does exist for vampires to feel averse to their objectively monstrous nature, but I would not be open to enabling deeper, sincere kinship between moroi and descendants. Characters can and should keep up lies and ties of convenience, after all. Moroi can still have hopes and ambitions which require people to carry out.
 

3 hours ago, lemonke said:

I'm talking about more about them being uncapable to build "friendship" or close allies for the sake of it or IRP reasons that would carry them to care about what they have built in a more genuine way. Some sort of camaraderie even to the non-vampire/evil people.

Though to be more direct with you, a plethora of issues arose both in Strigae and Siliti with allowing characters the wiggle room for passionate emotional ties to descendants, which - in the wake of the bans, blacklists and staff interventions that resulted in such - I have no desire to see repeated. The internal logic of the lore and the precedents of both narrative and OOC history surrounding it are best left undisturbed.

[lemonke 6014]

1 hour ago, The King Of The Moon said:

These are undead creatures with a lineage tracing back to the foot soldiers of our universe's main antagonist, which are sustained by the blood of living people. Though I understand vampirism in other fantasy settings can be presented in a more light-hearted, social manner (and between moroi this is the case), within the context of our lore there's little wiggle room for such between these creatures and descendants whom are by definition their prey. In this regard moroi - as with all ibleesian and many undead creatres - are inherently evil by descendant standards.
This vision is already elaborated in Mental State, where the option does exist for vampires to feel averse to their objectively monstrous nature, but I would not be open to enabling deeper, sincere kinship between moroi and descendants. Characters can and should keep up lies and ties of convenience, after all. Moroi can still have hopes

Yeah, no worries. I understand they have to be evil but always in my opinion there is a difference between being extremely evil and just a sociopath saturday villain.  I didn't mean like to remove completely the meaning of their existence but moreso offering options as I know, they are still creature of darkness and at such there should be consequences to it.

 

But yuh, I guess your last point makes sense about hopes and ambitions. It's a good way to see it. I actually like it a lot. Thanks for responding.

 

1 hour ago, The King Of The Moon said:

Though to be more direct with you, a plethora of issues arose both in Strigae and Siliti with allowing characters the wiggle room for passionate emotional ties to descendants, which - in the wake of the bans, blacklists and staff interventions that resulted in such - I have no desire to see repeated. The internal logic of the lore and the precedents of both narrative and OOC history surrounding it are best left undisturbed.

Also, I understand this too. I was a mere minion back then in the siliti community. Just a normie, and I remember a lot of issues about it and many other things, but also good people who roleplayed stuff out properly and whilst giving their character an in-depth personality of their nature that wasn't just "Yeah, I am a sociopath just using you." In the end, I don't feel like that's really going to fix the issue other than putting a limit on good rpers because some clowns abused the freedom that had been given to them as bad people will always continue to be problematic. I just wish emotionlessness or sociopathy wasn't enforced everywhere to the point their mentality remajns stagnant.

 

 

However, it's your lore and I totally understand your concern, Mordu. It's stiil a good piece of writing as you have added some unique ways to rp a vampire than most and I hope it gets passed 😎

 

EDIT: Your comment does respond to some of my concerns btw. Thank you again.

[Cheese 8882]

Trying to open this on mobile was the biggest mistake I’ve ever made 

[LastFallenAngel 112]

4 hours ago, iris1612 said:

the only thing I don't love, which is a very minor thing, is the boomsteel weakness. I'd be personally inclined the weakness be to a different ST material, or just to medium density boomsteel specifically. since medium density actually produces flame, it makes sense with the explanation, and it would lend some value to a material otherwise completely overshadowed by its crpmaxxed big brother.

overall this is awesome and i hope it passes

Why not just do the silvery like ST metal?

[Werew0lf 24180]

good lore because it has werewolf weakness 

 

also nice formatting

[graveyard_bones 213]

this one is actually based, i would love to see this implemented in the lore

[Agy 756]

2 hours ago, MysticalWeasel said:

I saw someone already mention of the weaknesses. I will also state it, I think something more interesting to see would be mirroring the real world's folklore of vampirism. Which being they are weak to silver, so would love to see they are incredibly weak to Argentum, merely touching it sizzling their skin. And any reflection cast by Argentum does not show the vampires form. That is my only niche change, as I'd think it more sense with people's mind to rationalize argentum being their bane over an explosive metal. 

Siiigh... When will someone add a weakness to garlic?

[TheBigBubbles 963]

+1

 

edit:

I gave this a good read through and I can see the effort you've put in the mend the divide between silit and striga communites. I also can see you've put a lot of thought into making everything make sense with current accepted lore and lore of the past. It all makes sense and reads well.

 

I also like how its now clear they are undead and not 'pseudo undead'. There's nothing wrong with vampiric undead, and I think this makes it very easy to persecute people who break the FTB rules, especially since as undead it would go against overarching server rules as well.

I'm glad you're not trying to bring back silit as I think any attempt to do so would leave everyone upset in one way or another. This is a good medium.

[_xMika 284]

BROOOO please accept it so i can drop corc 🙏 other than that pretty good lore

[Unwillingly 18096]

9 hours ago, The King Of The Moon said:

T1] Sensing - Passive

◈     Borne of their bloodthirst and the poison latent in the veins of their fellow vampire, moroi possess the innate ability to sense one another

what's the rationalization for this ability OOCly? last I heard, this required people to actually keep an OOC list of every accepted silit player in order for it to work, which obviously shouldn't be needed

[The King Of The Moon 7016]

37 minutes ago, Unwillingly said:

what's the rationalization for this ability OOCly? last I heard, this required people to actually keep an OOC list of every accepted silit player in order for it to work, which obviously shouldn't be needed

The ability is intended to enable recognition and collaboration between moroi who, with the intended widespread implementation of this piece, wouldn't otherwise have a practical way of discovering and interacting with one another. 

 

Alongside this it's intended to deter unnecessary strife from moroi accidentally feeding on or clashing with one another. As detailed in the mental state there is an inherent respect between moroi and this ability gives them the means to capitalise on that whilst preventing mistaken conflict. The way this ability was used by old Strigae and can be used by Seers today served as a model for it.

 

However you're right that there is an OOC pragmatism there, which is why the range is so short. If you're coming into whisper range of another person you can more reliably just ask in the moment, rather than needing to know as a prerequisite to make sense of further range recognition (as was the case with Siliti and remains so for Seers).

 

The ability isn't make or break, however, and if you've alternate suggestions I'd be grateful for them!

[Agy 756]

39 minutes ago, Unwillingly said:

what's the rationalization for this ability OOCly? last I heard, this required people to actually keep an OOC list of every accepted silit player in order for it to work, which obviously shouldn't be needed

Also there's literally nothing stopping someone from making their Vampire be... "Mentally Wacky" enough to make it their mission to wipe out their fellow Vamp-friends (whether fueled by OOC or IRP reasons), in which case, there's nothing really stopping them from visiting the closest church/Templar group and becoming the world's finest Judas Vampire.

 

Gonna continue yapping about FWs as I always do, but they also have a somewhat similar ability in the case of Frost Mothers, but in their case their entire mentality is warped into deeply caring for their fellow kin, to the point where doing something of that nature would be practically Powergaming unless given extremely good reasons irp

[winterblood 11181]

 

unsure on how to feel about stronger vampires again, lore and concepts and mechanics can be discussed as much as we'd like - but i think i am more concerned about how players would utilize the lore again

 

siliti got shelved due to massive misconduct between players with extreme harassment, lore-breaking, and other things - just makes me wary to see attempts to bring this back

[JEEGK 1367]

 

LF: Heavy-set human who is hard of seeing and born from church ties seeking to become a vampire.

 

As long as preparations of some kind are put in place to avoid the issues of the last write, I see no reason to not give it another chance of the server, and at the chance we come across the same issues as last time they were implemented, gut them and scrap the idea all together, lock them in a coffin and seal it 30 feet under, never to be attempted again.

 

There is no qualms in the write itself for me, just hoping it can be kept civil and the community can understand that we're all here to have fun and write our stories together.

[kuebiko 684]

6 hours ago, MysticalWeasel said:

I saw someone already mention of the weaknesses. I will also state it, I think something more interesting to see would be mirroring the real world's folklore of vampirism. Which being they are weak to silver, so would love to see they are incredibly weak to Argentum, merely touching it sizzling their skin. And any reflection cast by Argentum does not show the vampires form. That is my only niche change, as I'd think it more sense with people's mind to rationalize argentum being their bane over an explosive metal. 

 

Yeah, something more unique than table salt. can we make so vampires have to be let inside too? (theres a lot of interesting pieces to vampire folklore)

 

5 hours ago, The King Of The Moon said:

 

On a related note, there should be weight to the choices of players and the actions of characters. OOC consent is required for a corcitură to be cured; no other player can force someone to lose the feat. This is a choice that should not be taken lightly and, in past iterations of the lore it was made lightly by corcituri flipflopping between cursed and cured on a regular whim, which led to very poor roleplay and a disregard for in-character values and narrative weight. A cured corcitură can still becoming a moroi, and in this regard can return to the niche but will (as they should) have to double down on their commitment to such. A Feat can be light touch and reversible, a CA - especially an undead CA - should not be.

absolutely there should be that sense of permanence in returning to the feat/niche, and there shouldn't be a method for players to flip flop between cursed and cured. there has to be a commitment made. but i don't think damning them to moroi is the right commitment, because vampirism is a feat/path to villainy that appeals to less experienced people ... who are prone to getting cured because they realize they might not have been ready for the first commitment, or they just want to go with the flow of roleplay and get cured, meaning such a severe commitment and giving them the CA might be the wrong move. i can read over moroi here and quickly deduce that i would not make a compelling moroi but i can pull of the lower-tier vampire (for example). 

perhaps there's a separate method to cursing that allows those once cured to return to lesser-vampirism permanently in a way that requires more effort than finding a vampire willing to curse you again, like the blood magic rite. doing something like that encourages coven behavior and gives the less experienced who are trying to return a group of (probably) more experienced spooks to learn from.