Rule Confirmation - RP vs PvP Fighting!

[Aerinyes 402]

I haven't read the entire comments section so don't be pissy if someone already asked this, but what if they like run or something? Can we be like (( Pvp initiated if you run , ?

If they run, without emoting it, or without allowing a response... then they are breaking this rule. As this is a rule clarification and not a change, I'd imagine the former rulings are still in effect.

You can shoot them dead.

[Redbaron™ 690]

Then I feel like this will cause problems in my opinion, I feel like saying if you use MC mechanics to run away then we can use MC mechanics to kill you. I'm not sure what every body else thinks though.

[Free The Hobbits 859]

*waits for the over excessive ban reports

[V0idsoldier 1139]

Then I feel like this will cause problems in my opinion, I feel like saying if you use MC mechanics to run away then we can use MC mechanics to kill you. I'm not sure what every body else thinks though.

Agreed.

[Whitebeard 126]

I guess it depends on the context of the fight taking place, if you clearly intend to 'kill' them RPly and there is nothing they can do about it, you aren't giving them many options as far as RP goes. But sure if they are running away to avoid RP and you have given them significant warning prior, then exceptions could be made in that instance.

[Aerinyes 402]

I guess it depends on the context of the fight taking place, if you clearly intend to 'kill' them RPly and there is nothing they can do about it, you aren't giving them many options as far as RP goes. But sure if they are running away to avoid RP and you have given them significant warning prior, then exceptions could be made in that instance.

The classic example is when someone is being arrested and they are resisting arrest. Of course in just about any nation in LotC, resisting will get you killed more often then not.

What happens is the person resists just enough to get to the point where weapons are drawn on them and they are given that final warning. Instead of continuing to RP, they break off and run. Usually no emote, sometimes a quick emote saying they break off and run. In either case, they don't allow the guards to emote back trying to stop them.

Whats happens then is the guards chase them down and kill them. After that, a ban report goes up on the guards for a No-RP kill. Of course its thrown out as the guards have ample evidence themselves (despite the occasional escapee who will log out and back to clear his log to make his screenshot juicy, and evidence of just setting the guards up).

What needs to be added to this confirmation that running is considered PVP and you must emote the attempt. If you legitly (not powergame the escape) get away, then you can run off. Of course if you come back to stir up trouble within a small amount of time, I'm going to call foul on that, as you're effectively abusing the system.

[cruzazul 2815]

I like this new rule a lot. Good job GMs!

[Blawharag 277]

I guess it depends on the context of the fight taking place, if you clearly intend to 'kill' them RPly and there is nothing they can do about it, you aren't giving them many options as far as RP goes. But sure if they are running away to avoid RP and you have given them significant warning prior, then exceptions could be made in that instance.

The ambiguity of this statement does not do justice to the issue at hand. "You guess" is not worth much when I chase someone down and kill them only to have a ban report posted on me. Risking a ban on "Well, turns out I guessed wrong" is not fair to the player base. I don't mean to berate you, but it is very important that when commenting on rules that affect players permission to play on this server, you have to be certain in both appearance and actuality. Else it would be best if you did not comment until you did know for certain.

Beyond that I have some questions, the first set relating to the comment I quoted, the second set based off situations I have experienced in the past:

~What counts as significant warning prior? If I say "*raises his sword to attack _____" have I made it obvious enough that I intend to fight you? Where is the line?

~~~

Now for a scenario that I have encountered in the past:

I was raiding with two other Orcs. We found someone we intended to kill and rob, but he ran to his house. I got into his house before he shut the door. Then I emoted three times, each emote spaced thirty seconds apart "*Raises his sword to strike down ______". I had to emote this three times because at no point in time did I receive any response from the victim. He emoted sending an owl, however, while failing to respond to my emotes. He did respond to my fellow Orc's emotes, who were trying to break down the door. Knowing that reinforcements would be coming and my chance was limited, I emoted twice more, received no response, and simply killed the lad after informing him I was attacking him now.

Had this continued, or had it stretched into an RP fight, this random human noble would have survived long enough for reinforcements to arrive, against a battle hardened Orcish veteran who leads the elite Orcish War Unit the Kheshig. Simply typing out the conflict would have given enough time, even if the battle itself should have been much shorter lived.

Now, I have no problems RP fighting with someone. However, my questions lie here:

~Can we make official, and make it well known on a public scale, that all messages must be RPed as being a process (retrieving paper, retrieving pen and ink, writing letter) that can be interrupted by players nearby? I don't even care whether the person is actually carrying pen and paper on them, what concerns me is that as it stands now, by the time you hear word of a pigeon being sent, the /tell is already gone. The only way I could call someone out for that is by telling them in OOC that I would have stopped that pigeon, or the letter from being written, thus interrupting the flow of RP.

~What is the proper response to someone who refuses to RP back? Yes, I can report them. But that doesn't do much for me at the moment of the infraction, where I can't PvP them to death due to rules and reinforcements show up minutes later while my hands are tied. I could have killed him and moved on, rply and oocly, but without being allowed to PvP without their consent, and without them responding to my emotes (or else taking a deliberately long time to type out their responses to RP combat, thus making it take disproportionately long and allowing back up to arrive) I can effectively be screwed over in a very non-rp way, and the offender could be completely in the right.

**Edit**

Building off Aerinyes' post, I did make a rule suggestion some time ago regarding no-RP running and making that a rule offense. Ill see if I can dig up the thread.

[Whitebeard 126]

What needs to be added to this confirmation that running is considered PVP and you must emote the attempt. If you legitly (not powergame the escape) get away, then you can run off. Of course if you come back to stir up trouble within a small amount of time, I'm going to call foul on that, as you're effectively abusing the system.

I like this idea and I shall add it in right now!

[Blawharag 277]

I like this idea and I shall add it in right now!

You should also require that since running is considered initiating PvP, you must wait for a response from the individual you are running from before you start. Otherwise we will still have people saying "*runs from the guard" and breaking before anyone even has time to read the message, much less chase.

[Eli_Stevens 14]

Glad to see this clarified, now back to Lotc

[Sultan 3953]

No-RP running is a strike offence, and if you do use Mine-craft mechanics to run then expect to be pvped.

[Whitebeard 126]

The ambiguity of this statement does not do justice to the issue at hand. "You guess" is not worth much when I chase someone down and kill them only to have a ban report posted on me. Risking a ban on "Well, turns out I guessed wrong" is not fair to the player base. I don't mean to berate you, but it is very important that when commenting on rules that affect players permission to play on this server, you have to be certain in both appearance and actuality. Else it would be best if you did not comment until you did know for certain.

Beyond that I have some questions, the first set relating to the comment I quoted, the second set based off situations I have experienced in the past:

~What counts as significant warning prior? If I say "*raises his sword to attack _____" have I made it obvious enough that I intend to fight you? Where is the line?

~~~

Now for a scenario that I have encountered in the past:

I was raiding with two other Orcs. We found someone we intended to kill and rob, but he ran to his house. I got into his house before he shut the door. Then I emoted three times, each emote spaced thirty seconds apart "*Raises his sword to strike down ______". I had to emote this three times because at no point in time did I receive any response from the victim. He emoted sending an owl, however, while failing to respond to my emotes. He did respond to my fellow Orc's emotes, who were trying to break down the door. Knowing that reinforcements would be coming and my chance was limited, I emoted twice more, received no response, and simply killed the lad after informing him I was attacking him now.

Had this continued, or had it stretched into an RP fight, this random human noble would have survived long enough for reinforcements to arrive, against a battle hardened Orcish veteran who leads the elite Orcish War Unit the Kheshig. Simply typing out the conflict would have given enough time, even if the battle itself should have been much shorter lived.

Now, I have no problems RP fighting with someone. However, my questions lie here:

~Can we make official, and make it well known on a public scale, that all messages must be RPed as being a process (retrieving paper, retrieving pen and ink, writing letter) that can be interrupted by players nearby? I don't even care whether the person is actually carrying pen and paper on them, what concerns me is that as it stands now, by the time you hear word of a pigeon being sent, the /tell is already gone. The only way I could call someone out for that is by telling them in OOC that I would have stopped that pigeon, or the letter from being written, thus interrupting the flow of RP.

~What is the proper response to someone who refuses to RP back? Yes, I can report them. But that doesn't do much for me at the moment of the infraction, where I can't PvP them to death due to rules and reinforcements show up minutes later while my hands are tied. I could have killed him and moved on, rply and oocly, but without being allowed to PvP without their consent, and without them responding to my emotes (or else taking a deliberately long time to type out their responses to RP combat, thus making it take disproportionately long and allowing back up to arrive) I can effectively be screwed over in a very non-rp way, and the offender could be completely in the right.

**Edit**

Building off Aerinyes' post, I did make a rule suggestion some time ago regarding no-RP running and making that a rule offense. Ill see if I can dig up the thread.

Ok a massive response, let me see if I can address your problems.

Firstly, the words 'I guess' were probably ill suited, the fact of the matter is, these things are more often then not, not black and a white. Meaning that things change depending on the context. As long as you maintain RP as the highest priority and you follow the procedure above then you will be safe from becoming banned.

"~What counts as significant warning prior? If I say "*raises his sword to attack _____" have I made it obvious enough that I intend to fight you? Where is the line?"

I'm assuming you are referring to PvP, so let me make this clear. It should be address LOOCly that you would 'prefer' to pvp. After this the initiation to the fighting should be well noted OOCly.

As for your scenario...

Although this is a difficult situation for you to be in and sometimes roleplaying things can seem tedious or even becoming a disadvantage... roleplay is what is important, if reinforcements are due to arrive then accept this RP and move with it. What is your drive to kill this man infront of you so badly? Try to break his legs and move on quickly if that's what you want.

Writing things with RP

This was actually a rule that was apart of my old rule set, which was sort of editted out of existance... for that reason I fully agree with this as a rule.

Refusing to RP

As stated in this thread, refusing to RP is against the rules and will be dealt with as such, if you clearly do not have the time to RP with the guy, then running away seems like the logical conclusion.

[Whitebeard 126]

You should also require that since running is considered initiating PvP, you must wait for a response from the individual you are running from before you start. Otherwise we will still have people saying "*runs from the guard" and breaking before anyone even has time to read the message, much less chase.

I thought that 'attempting to run away' is sort of straightforward that they need to wait until the person responds, thus 'attempting'.

[Sultan 3953]

Ok a massive response, let me see if I can address your problems.

Firstly, the words 'I guess' were probably ill suited, the fact of the matter is, these things are more often then not, not black and a white. Meaning that things change depending on the context. As long as you maintain RP as the highest priority and you follow the procedure above then you will be safe from becoming banned.

"~What counts as significant warning prior? If I say "*raises his sword to attack _____" have I made it obvious enough that I intend to fight you? Where is the line?"

I'm assuming you are referring to PvP, so let me make this clear. It should be address LOOCly that you would 'prefer' to pvp. After this the initiation to the fighting should be well noted OOCly.

As for your scenario...

Although this is a difficult situation for you to be in and sometimes roleplaying things can seem tedious or even becoming a disadvantage... roleplay is what is important, if reinforcements are due to arrive then accept this RP and move with it. What is your drive to kill this man infront of you so badly? Try to break his legs and move on quickly if that's what you want.

Writing things

This was actually a rule that was apart of my old rule set, which was sort of editted out of existance... for that reason I fully agree with this as a rule.

Refusing to RP

As stated in this thread, refusing to RP is against the rules and will be dealt with as such, if you clearly do not have the time to RP with the guy, then running away seems like the logical conclusion.

To just clarify, Refusing to RP is not always punished because there are sometimes, that Gms do not allow persons to rp together because of previous matters between the two -also when a person feels uncomfortable with way an rp is heading (Slaves etc) but this should be brought to the attention of GMS.