AlmondTree

Sounds about right art from one thing! I'd suggest to remove this thing as with "unlikely to transpire" I do assume this could mean a few favored individuals getting this done for them.

After quite some thought put into this and discussing it with people, I support this as I believe change is in the air for once.

Having inquired to two holy orders (one of which my main character is heavily affiliated with as a Cleric) whether or not they'd participate in this kind of thing (assistance and blessings and what have you), and having seen the mass of gold weaponry used against us through two years as a Wraith, I can safely say a lot of my claims here aren't assumptions and presumptuous of how things actually work in the game. If this pulls through and shows that you are actually true in the fact that holy orders are ousted as snowflakes and are not sought for assistance, it is not a flaw of the prospect or lore, but of the players. I don't want a dependency to come about from this change, I want tie folks together better and prevent the evil side from being assblasted every time they seek to enact their plots. Removing what prevents that invites regular players and communities to try to include holy and arcane-oriented groups more because, yes, they're as vital of aspects to the server as any other group are. Trying to cut them out of the picture and disregard their purpose by claiming "we shouldn't need them to defend ourselves" as others have claimed is... well, incorrect, really. This isn't a server where communities are split into their own cliques with their own rules. Everything has use and relevance. And don't worry - your feedback is much appreciated! I can understand that holy orders wants this but that's not my concern. My concern is the normal people, that don't have any means to defend themselves if this goes through, no holy order can be there when it happens unless we go back to the ward issue that I don't want to see happen again. Oh well..good luck with this.

Wards are as bad as gold. wards = "you're not allowed to rp in here because we said so and if u come in here as a necro ur breaking lore" A clear example of ignorance as a result to lack of knowledge, as you seem to believe wards stops players with dark arts to go there. This is not the case as wards weaken the target, it doesn't harm them. It inflicts no damage, no pain. It weakens them, still able to RP there but their magical abilities heavily weakened depending on the target's strength.

Or, assist the mortal races by giving them enchanted weapons. And assisting them in battles. Wards are as bad as gold. The part where I said that people don't always see eye to eye with holy groups. How to decide who get's these enchanted weapons? Leaders like always? No thank you, I rather have the general population being able to participate in dark arts role-play than just a select few. You seem to have this idea of what /could/ happen rather than what's actually happening, that everyone carries gold and that everyone wants to go to a holy order and ask for help from someone they'd rather be part of but are not and just think they are snowflakes.. Sorry if I sound aggressive and I apologize if it does.

Should we rather have every holy group going about warding all the cities off then? I mean this is a small price to pay..if the holy groups wanted they could just ward the cites and then that'd be that? I do not want this to happen!

Do you intentionally sprinkle sardonic rhetoric over your posts to apply your point better, or for rep?

1) I plan to fix this. Progress is slow but the vision is solid. 2) It's not hard. There's literally a cart in spawn leading to Aeroch'nor, which is by Destati, which is where the Clerics roam. Additionally, the Paladins roam Nordwen and Salvus. The Ascended are based in the same land as Laureh'lin. If none of these individuals are present, they can all be contacted OOC to give a heads up that you want to meet with them and RP. If making RP is what RP going stagnant is to you, I'm not sure how else to pose the matter. 3) #2 kind of goes over that, atleast when you include the prospect of getting holy or Fi/Wardmancer folks involved with protection and weapon blessing. 4) Fire is not gold. I would prefer a small legion of Fire Mages who had banded together for the sole purpose of pushing back the undead races over mobs with golden sticks, considering the more organic roleplay surrounding such a prospect. In the end, conventional fire isn't gold, and whether or not it's "carried" (flint and steel I guess) in abundance won't generate as much of a problem as gold weaponry does. Fire can scare off the spooks and build up better roleplay. Gold is used to kill the spooks in ever-repeating Julius Caesar-tier executions of these same, sinister individuals. Which is redundant for both parties involved. 5) Clerics, Paladins, Ascended, Itheral and Keepers were not made with the same purpose as Wraiths, Darkstalkers, Liches, Ghouls and Necromancers. The dark side was molded to be powerful and feared. The goodly side was made to counter that effectively. It doesn't really matter whether or not the benevolent forces can be harmed conventionally or not, because this is about the undead, and they're not undead whom have to deal with being bantered at while being stabbed with gold daggers from five people after approaching to give a little spooky roleplay to others. If we want to talk about holy magic groups, though, we should probably go back to the fact that they're displaced by abundant gold weaponry, not how tough they are in comparison to the other side they're rarely called to fight against. 6) This is already the case. Whoever spread the idea that it wasn't misunderstood the gold weakness. The point still stands-- what you propose for gold right now is what should be applied to holy and enchanted weapons instead, and with gold out of the picture so this game isn't so redundant and one-sided anymore. What actual means do we the "holy side" have to combat the "dark side" ? I mean, you got to remember that baddies have hidden bases they have disguises and lists of people who know them and they most likely are not publicly known cause they either kill their victims or just a select few knows what they are. I like this idea but I still do not think it is fair at all, we HAVE to remember that interaction is server wide and not a war between good and evil. It's not really about things being one sided, we already have the privilege of playing a special type of character. I came and thought Iron and Gold ores were being harder to find, I was wrong! Clerics don't worry about being stabbed with a pointy golden stick, and it's nigh on impossible to (magically, at least) slay an Itharel. I'm not stating that's impossible, by the way- through more mundane means it's achievable. But Wraiths and other darker entities always tend to get smacked around like a doll and people forget that they're meant to be malignant forces bent on either world domination, or purging 'goodly' groups for one reason or another. Every Cleric kill I've done has had repercussions, same with the normal folk when I have to defend myself, it is preposterous in my opinion that a malevolent creature like a Wraith can be destroyed in one stab with a measly aurum weapon. It acts, as Tentoa said, like kryptonite. So it this you feeling wronged and inferior to say "Itharels" then? In that case then that's where the issue is, not punishing the entire server of normal folks that don't want to have that ghost simply hovering around them, whispering in their ear.

@Swaggyclan I am not bothered by this, I quite enjoy RPing with dark arts users. I am speak from a general server perspective, people that may never get the chance to have dark arts. Envy is a powerful emotion! I know that dark arts users has to hide, I understand but also understand that you can not be tracked down by holy orders like you suggest when removing gold, asking holy orders that in reality can not do much. I really want to point out that holy orders are not exactly very popular are they? I mean I hear the the "snowflake" scenario quite a lot, just as much as you people might do? I might not see your point with this other than being beneficial to dark arts so that they can be "left alone" sort a feel. That's what I get from this at the moment and I feel that this could be done in a different way other than just removing it?

They're not common because they're absent, I think. If more people played at involving them in the neat stuff that's planned, I reckon they wouldn't stay so small anymore. Even then, my point still applies. Work out a meeting in Skype or something to get your weapons blessed to fight against the spooks. You don't need the presence of the holy/arcane folk, but it will help alongside blessed weaponry made by them. A warrior with a gold sword and a Wraith are nearly on-par. It just takes a little cunning for the fleshbag to ultimately get the upper hand in such a situation, and not the blind bumrushing that has been so prevelent in each Wraith/undead attack as of recent. It would not switch the scales because, as you said, being massively outnumbered is often the case. All this means is that the same mobs of people would have to make an effort to not make themselves and their swarming tactics useless via the inclusion of other evil-fighting assets, gold notwithstanding. If you want another example to how things are imbalanced here, atleast from a mechanical standpoint (thankfully the spooks aren't RP-only anymore thanks to 501's help), look at it this way: a warclaim had been initiated by a horde of skeleton warriors and mages (players with the Necrolyte race), led by four Wraiths (players with the Spectre race). The town they seek to conquer arms themselves with easily-obtainable golden weaponry, which is designed to easily dispose of those with the Necrolyte and Spectre races. While the invading force has powerful buffs, the defenders in the end have an objectively higher chance of winning the battle because they all have access to gold. Now repeat this same process five times. That's five losses for the invading tide of darkness which isn't as powerful and terrible as they're suppose to be because the peasant hamlet they sought to invade was defended by banterlords with ball-breakingly powerful weapons able to be made on a whim. It's like if an Orcish tribe tried to invade a human town and the defending force was armed with Sharpness 3 swords - it's ridiculous. It's a done deal for the attackers. This whole example translates into RP instances just as easily. By cutting out the issue (golden weaponry) and replacing them with a neglected asset (holy orders/antimagic stuff) who are able to replace golden weaponry with weapons of their own make, the town may hold their own against their impeding doom, all the while keeping things balanced with an appropriate amount of enchanted weaponry and holy-affiliated allies. If I wanted to make things one sided, Leo, I'd just suggest removing all anti-evil weaknesses all together so my skeleton army could bumfuck your Tree-Elf town with their race buffs. That's not the case, however, banter aside. I'd like you to refer to what I said above about us being absent. You are now just taking your side in consideration, regular people want a chance. It is one sided as it only benefits one side, it doesn't bring much roleplay to the non-deity people nor the deity people as you'd imagine and appears to me be an attempt to just make your side's roleplay. Like I said, there's not enough people to patrol and scout things. 1: Dark arts usually have a hidden base, and I mean completely hidden. 2: Dark art's usually are not known, I'll refer to Lorien for example that keeps a list on people or else he can with ease prove metagaming, there's no possibility to hunt anything(Nor do we want to constantly search for dark arts) with IRL life and other things in consideration. 3: I fear that this will cause an outrage in the "mortal" community and just literally F**K things up for you guys even more with meta-squads, raids and excuses.

1) I plan to fix this. Progress is slow but the vision is solid. 2) It's not hard. There's literally a cart in spawn leading to Aeroch'nor, which is by Destati, which is where the Clerics roam. Additionally, the Paladins roam Nordwen and Salvus. The Ascended are based in the same land as Laureh'lin. If none of these individuals are present, they can all be contacted OOC to give a heads up that you want to meet with them and RP. If making RP is what RP going stagnant is to you, I'm not sure how else to pose the matter. 3) #2 kind of goes over that, atleast when you include the prospect of getting holy or Fi/Wardmancer folks involved with protection and weapon blessing. 4) Fire is not gold. I would prefer a small legion of Fire Mages who had banded together for the sole purpose of pushing back the undead races over mobs with golden sticks, considering the more organic roleplay surrounding such a prospect. In the end, conventional fire isn't gold, and whether or not it's "carried" (flint and steel I guess) in abundance won't generate as much of a problem as gold weaponry does. Fire can scare off the spooks and build up better roleplay. Gold is used to kill the spooks in ever-repeating Julius Caesar-tier executions of these same, sinister individuals. Which is redundant for both parties involved. 5) Clerics, Paladins, Ascended, Itheral and Keepers were not made with the same purpose as Wraiths, Darkstalkers, Liches, Ghouls and Necromancers. The dark side was molded to be powerful and feared. The goodly side was made to counter that effectively. It doesn't really matter whether or not the benevolent forces can be harmed conventionally or not, because this is about the undead, and they're not undead whom have to deal with being bantered at while being stabbed with gold daggers from five people after approaching to give a little spooky roleplay to others. If we want to talk about holy magic groups, though, we should probably go back to the fact that they're displaced by abundant gold weaponry, not how tough they are in comparison to the other side they're rarely called to fight against. 6) This is already the case. Whoever spread the idea that it wasn't misunderstood the gold weakness. The point still stands-- what you propose for gold right now is what should be applied to holy and enchanted weapons instead, and with gold out of the picture so this game isn't so redundant and one-sided anymore. What actual means do we the "holy side" have to combat the "dark side" ? I mean, you got to remember that baddies have hidden bases they have disguises and lists of people who know them and they most likely are not publicly known cause they either kill their victims or just a select few knows what they are. I like this idea but I still do not think it is fair at all, we HAVE to remember that interaction is server wide and not a war between good and evil. It's not really about things being one sided, we already have the privilege of playing a special type of character. I came and thought Iron and Gold ores were being harder to find, I was wrong!

What's stopping those without holy magic to fight dark arts though? I mean most of them bleed just as any cultists can attack any holy user.

Nah, think you just have the wrong mentality about this. Good dark arts users and good light arts do not power-game each other. They meet half way. A confrontation between the two doesn't mean it will turn into an epic fight scene with one part having to lose and die. Yes, but those are good users. Some people may not, thus I personally believe that going into the details would help with that. It is really not needed, if you pick up either of the two arts you /should/ not be doing it. If there is such an occasion it's dealt with in Pm's. Other wise the player in question should probably not be having the magics in the first place. (Just radical little me sorry.)

I still wanted to know! Although, when it comes down to players to decide it is a bit more iffy, as that can easily lead to powergaming. Other than that, this can definitely make holy magic not just the instant death of dark magics, I approve. Nah, think you just have the wrong mentality about this. Good dark arts users and good light arts do not power-game each other. They meet half way. A confrontation between the two doesn't mean it will turn into an epic fight scene with one part having to lose and die.

MC Name:BootyPirate Character Name: Elizabeth Wall Profession: (No nexus bs, but chef I suppose) and Reason for Joining: To reach her personal goals

Yes please!

[[Cool video indeed! Not much is wrong with the rules, part from TNT use and allowing potions. Better to just get this over with..may the strongest brother win.]]

Well sure it looks good on paper but..the rough truth is that the server isn't mature to handle it. It's just not fit with the current player-base. An idea worth considering but I'm looking from a whole perspective and i want to to vote no. Sooner or later it will turn into just another drama session and there's plenty of loopholes in such a system. We simply ain't ready for it.

Yeah those that were IN the city when it happened, less bullshit and more logic. There are survivors as a few were cast out from the caves before the collapse, that is role-play and no OOC has power over role-play there. The characters are legit and if they were cast out before the collapse then how would they simply stop to exist? Sorry but it's not near solid and less ruin people fun please.