Feedback On Dwarven And Human War.

[Zezimus 1523]

Mama always told me to separate OOC from IC. The Lefty incident wasnt the only one, you have RekonSoldier96 to thank for playing dwarf assassin, Kowaman for trying to burrow into the palace, and a bunch of Dwarves who practically stormed our palace. I do apologize Zezimus, but you don't know half the story as you were away with exams which I do respect but I'd think we both could figure you know you can't just rebuke this entire roleplay.

 

I think ample and public warning should be given under any circumstance, which in this case wasn't given. I don't really like debating this out of character anyway, but I think both sides just need to stop trying to put blame OOCly on the other. There's obviously two very opposing arguments that we're not going to reach an agreement on any time soon.

 

Bottom line, the war is ongoing, the dwarves feel screwed over but they'll keep fighting, the humans can say themselves what they want. As of yet there's been no real form of public terms delivered which I feel needs to be made if people really want an end to this war.

[Primrose 59]

Just going to put this out there..." Why can't we be friends?"

[Snoop 365]

Just going to put this out there..." Why can't we be friends?"

Jesus Christ stop posting stupid **** like this. There is no OOC hated involved in this, at least not on the Oren side. I respect the dwarves. I just wish they would accept a fair WC where the battle is evenly stanced without one side hiding in an underground bunker with a shitload of traps.

[Aelu / Rel (Combustionary) 1540]

Jesus Christ stop posting stupid **** like this. There is no OOC hated involved in this, at least not on the Oren side. I respect the dwarves. I just wish they would accept a fair WC where the battle is evenly stanced without one side hiding in an underground bunker with a shitload of traps.

 

Please don't pretend Oren hasn't played any part in the OOC hatred. Even your own post is a tad vehement. If a smaller side was going to defend something, what good reason is there to not use every trap you can?

 

That being said? The Dwarves are just as bad. Both sides are really, really bad when it comes to the ooc hate. Not all members of course, but neither is free of it.

[Snoop 365]

Please don't pretend Oren hasn't played any part in the OOC hatred. Even your own post is a tad vehement. If a smaller side was going to defend something, what good reason is there to not use every trap you can?

 

That being said? The Dwarves are just as bad. Both sides are really, really bad when it comes to the ooc hate. Not all members of course, but neither is free of it.

No what I grow annoyed about is the fact that everyone asks "Why can we not just end this war, Why can't we be friends?" when it was stated over and over that the dwarven nation won't accept a fair warclaim where they do not hide underground and wait for the timer to end. A white peace isn't going to happen. We are not using OOC means to end an IC war in which humans clearly have the upper hand in. If the dwarves want to attempt to push us back, accept the fair WC and win. You have a large alliance, I don't see the issue.

[Lago 2572]

Both sides have their reasonable people, their IC/OOC separated people, their "PvPers" uninterested in RPing, and their people taking an IC war OOC.

[Snoop 365]

Then the dwarves can agree to a W.C so this can be ended rather then denying it for no reason.

[Sneaky 189]

Just saying why you hide in your underground forts what is stoping me from going and sieging Kal'arkon on wait nothing...

[Cyndikate 2303]

Just saying why you hide in your underground forts what is stoping me from going and sieging Kal'arkon on wait nothing...

Well what do you want the dwarves to do? At least their tactics make up for the fact that they're outnumbered.

[Neri 3590]

Well what do you want the dwarves to do? At least their tactics make up for the fact that they're outnumbered.

 

Yes, but in roleplay a force trapped underground without farms or supplies would eventually starve. Although I admit, out of all the races, Dwarves would last the longest in a siege like that.

[Shadowjax 140]

Well what do you want the dwarves to do? At least their tactics make up for the fact that they're outnumbered.

These tactics rely entirely on OOC restrictions. If Oren were to siege and capture each wall up to the dwarven capital (ignoring any possible underground structures) the only possible means of defending their city would be sallying out of their hidey holes or actually manning the above ground defenses. 

 

All strategic points of interest (i.e. Dungrim's Mouth; Capitals) are located above ground; underground forts can be useful if you're fleeing from a larger force, but are horribly useless when actually trying to defend important land. The problem lies in the "mutual WC" system-- Due to the inferior numbers of the Dwarven alliance they would prefer a battle which involves one of their underground trap orgies and force the assaulters to capture it in order to proceed. This rply makes little sense, as what the invaders are aiming to capture exist entirely above ground and can be reached through conventional siegecraft. 

 

Now we rest at a stalemate as (based on the information seen in this thread) Dwarven leaders will not accept a WC unless it involves the attempted capture of an underground fort of little importance besides being a ***** to siege. I would genuinely like to see an actual warclaim for above ground territories to be posted by Oren leadership, if the dwarves refuse an apparently reasonable WC then it will show the faults of the current system.

[Hiebe 2493]

What happens when you take land above us and we Sally forth to raid your supply lines? Going to build a fort right over us? Lol

I understand but hell we dont want another thoringrad

[Shadowjax 140]

What happens when you take land above us and we Sally forth to raid your supply lines? Going to build a fort right over us? Lol

I understand but hell we dont want another thoringrad

Dwarven walls are a stone's throw away from Vekaro, unless you have a sprawling underground fortress underneath the marshes then I don't believe that's going to be an issue. 

 

Besides, if we're going to raise supply as a factor of war, could we not simply starve out those who would garrison the underground fort?

[Blundermore 2741]

At this point you must ask yourselves if having one final warclaim will solve anything. You've let this crockpot boil for far too long for this conflict to be resolved and stay resolved with one final warclaim where victor takes the spoils of war. Whoever wins, will rub 2 months of spite and anguish in the looser's face. The looser will *****, whine, moan, complain in return, furthering the divide as one side stomps on the other's sandcastle. 

 

In the end, war will lead to nothing. Your conflict will not end in this war, if you chose to fight it you will only continue to push yourselves further away from one another.

 

It's not a matter of principle, or wanting to win anymore. Too much has happened for the OOC to die down in one final bloody conflict. The best both sides can do is shake hands, and agree to unconditional peace. Then head their own ways. Perhaps there is still time to salvage the broken tatters of these two groups, though I fear too much damage has already bee done by both sides. 

 

You either sort this out peacefully now, or you continue this war, onto the next war, in a year's time. Allowing all that OOC hate to brood and bubble over into that war as well. 

[Snoop 365]

I'm sorry? When half of Oren's military forces decided to leave LOTC due to unfair GM intervention the dwarves did not think twice to halt and agree to a truce while Oren was in OOC shambles. Instead they forced Oren to surrender or face a warclaim. What is the issue with simply accepting a defeat? Is it really that hard? When Salvus was sieged none of us cried and moaned. We simply nodded our heads and went on with RP. Accept a warclaim or surrender to Oren's terms. Those are the only options the way I see it.