Re-Locking All Magic

[TeaLulu 1783]

Establish firm tiers again and lock all tiers higher than 2, aka beginner/novice level. Logically once you reach a certain point you can't learn further without some sort of guidance, and it would give people a chance to see the person's roleplay to see if they would powergame or not. They could then submit a SHORT application each time they furthered tiers, with examples of their roleplay and recommendations from other players/their roleplay teachers (no more staff-approval-required teachers). People could then post their own evidence of improper magic, roleplay, or powergaming.

Dat my opinion.

Pls note something really is necessary if we're going to have a magic plugin.

[Mining 129]

My opinion is something of a yes and no regarding this. I do NOT believe the magic system, as it was in the past, should return the way it was. It caused a degree of arrogance amongst mages that was not restricted to IC. I'm sure many will recall that back when magic was tightly locked up, if a new, eager role player made a post on the forums looking for a teacher or book....they got ripped to shreds in the kind of manner that turns people away from the server. It was rather unforgiving of new players simply looking to have fun roleplaying magic.

But at the same time, it also weeded out some of the problems experienced in the current magic system. For example, people insta mageing yet having little to no clue on how to roleplay magic. It really grinds my gears when I meet a 400 year old elf character who says in rp they've been practicing magic since before my parents were born (despite me being a Mage of over 10 irl months) and then when they roleplay magic, it is wrong and power gammy. Now obviously the more experienced and knowledgeable mages should be helping educate those newer to magic. But that can only go so far when there are so many backstory mages who don't know what they're doing. Backstory mages (mages who never actually rpd in game to get their magic) should not be allowed in my opinion.

Magic should be a wonderful force of creating roleplay. The old magic system ensured it created roleplay (by seeking out a teacher and slowly increasing in skill) but it was also heavily restrictive. The new system (that being no system) was designed to open up magical roleplay, however I feel it has cheapened it. Quantity is replacing quality in many cases of magical roleplay. All mages are master mages, apprentice mages and novices are all but extinct. Neither or the magic systems are perfect. It's my personal belief that their should be some form of check to ensure mages know how to roleplay their magic, but nothing as tight as the old system. Backstory mages shouldn't be allowed and the magical learning process should take a set amount of time.

P.S - I would be willing to give up my magic for the sake of a magical purge (which I believe could be beneficial)

[Draeris 3118]

No.

 

Why? Because Magic doesn't have to special or rare? I get it, in Dungeons and Dragons, Warhammer, Lord of the Rings, and all those High Fantasy settings, magic was some power that was mythical and rare. Rumors were always spread about it, most mages weren't trusted and the like. But usually there are two types of people that have these issues with magic. Those who wish to have special characters to feel better about themselves, and those who are upset because something happened in character that pissed them off. Yes, not all players are able to magic roleplay properly, it's true, but not all players can roleplay swordfighting, archery, alchemy, and even talking properly.

 

Just like magic, swordfighting, archery, and any other form of physical combat must be taught. It's not something you just do, yes you can pick up a sword and swing it, but no you cannot start fighting three people at a time, swinging two blades, countering and parrying away for your life. Yes you can pick up a bow, knock and arrow and shoot it, doesn't mean you are going to hit your target. If you are saying you want apps for magic just because you are upset or because you want to feel special, I don't know what to tell you. We all come to this server for roleplay, promoting elitism isn't fun.

 

If you wish to enjoy fun magic in a fun environment, where you actually learn it and it is taught. Sadly the Guild is currently full, but on a daily basis I roleplay with at least four people who are actually practicing their magic and trying to learn how to roleplay it properly. The ones who don't care to learn are either new players (and remember, we're all new to LOTC and just roleplay in general at one point) or the veterans who think they can just pick up magic without a second thought. Magic is more difficult than it seems, but locking it is not the answer.

 

Though maybe it'll help a bit to make posts, fill out an app, and get a teacher, I'd request the same for other parts of LotC. You lock one part of roleplay, you might as well lock them all.

 

Truly.. This?

 

First of all, Swordfighting & Archery is far easier to explain and monitor than magic. I haven't had many incidents with magic, but overhearing so many LOOC arguments on how a magic would work is just plain annoying and lowers the bar of the server. Many times I have had bannermen in the Visconti powergaming to tears, but it was easy to tutor them and make them actual, proper Roleplayers. Goodluck doing that with something as complicated as magic. If you swing your sword at someone, or shoot an arrow, the only thing you can argue about is accuricy and the movement. On magic? You can even use the moss between the stone as an argument why your magic wouldn't work, and those arguments ARE USED. The GM team can handle Elitism easier than a constant flow of PG and complaints, because that is already happening with other things!

 

While maybe the old system wasn't perfect, if we for once think outside the box and stimulate better behavior in the upper circles, these stimulated example roles will inspire many below them! Elitism can be solved with logic, something illogical as magic can't be solved with logic, as the logic behind it is made up by a human being that must lack logic at something?

[Hydra 513]

This again really? Don't we already have a topic for this? Please no keep it unlocked where it belongs. Reverting back to the late Asulon/early Anthos garbage will only frustrate people who have genuinely had issues getting teachers in the past. Leave removed restrictions removed, please. Magic is sometimes powergamed by newer members I get that, they just need guidance. Also magic will be changing in 4.0 (Regarding how you get it) so locking it wouldn't really make sense at this point. I would also like to say locking it now would royal F**k over current magic roleplayers who were self taught. Magic isn't locked to special cliques and groups anymore and with the new magic plugin coming ( with a different way to obtain it ) I say we keep the unlocked magic unlocked.

Getting a teacher is not hard when I started out with my first Mage like char he went to the mages guild they said no, he wasn't to the delvers and polygorath had space as a student so he was my teacher, he was not an elitist Mage but if you want to find a non elites teacher just look around

[Mankaar 166]

Again, the only truly clique magic has been locked, is locked, and will always be locked. Every single other magic has teachers outside of the clique generally associated with it. Sure, it will make it harder to get magic, but how is that a bad thing? The quality of magic was best when it was restricted, and outside of the currently locked subtypes, has been slowly getting worse.

 

Every magic type has a certain group of players around it, you can not deny that almost all magic was controlled by special little groups you had to get into. You want quality magic roleplay? help someone instead of scoffing behind a keyboard and laughing when they're confused. (Not necessarily saying you, but there are a few choice people who do.). Finding teachers is difficult and when someone can't provide the time towards that they get kicked out of any form of magic roleplay. For the people saying "If they can't put in the effort they shouldn't have magic.". All I have to say is this a fantasy minecraft roleplay server it's meant for fun and enjoyment during peoples free time and some of us don't want to or can't spend days look for a teacher, getting into there group, and training.

 

 Getting a teacher is not hard when I started out with my first Mage like char he went to the mages guild they said no, he wasn't to the delvers and polygorath had space as a student so he was my teacher, he was not an elitist Mage but if you want to find a non elites teacher just look around  

 

 

Finding a teacher is indeed difficult, especially for people lacking time. Why should we kick these people out of the fun? Others don't even really need teachers like Blundermore or some of the mages created before Asulon. Why restrict when we have guides and the ability to help each other?

[Draeris 3118]

We have set the standard that magic is accessable for all ourselves. Maybe magic can't be teached to all? Maybe only 5 people on the server get to learn in the end? But that is life, you can't always get what you want. And destroying a server for forfilling a desire of more power is not worth it.

[Hydra 513]

Blah if you look inside the mages guild library there is even a book by Joe Blackman on how to find a teacher and how you should act around the teacher and such. It's not hard you just need to be persistent

[Aelu / Rel (Combustionary) 1535]

 

Every magic type has a certain group of players around it, you can not deny that almost all magic was controlled by special little groups you had to get into. You want quality magic roleplay? help someone instead of scoffing behind a keyboard and laughing when they're confused. (Not necessarily saying you, but there are a few choice people who do.). Finding teachers is difficult and when someone can't provide the time towards that they get kicked out of any form of magic roleplay. For the people saying "If they can't put in the effort they shouldn't have magic.". All I have to say is this a fantasy minecraft roleplay server it's meant for fun and enjoyment during peoples free time and some of us don't want to or can't spend days look for a teacher, getting into there group, and training.

 

 

If you don't have the time to properly do something, why should we cheapen that thing as a whole to cater to you? It doesn't require you spend days at a time. When I got Earth Evocation in Asulon? I spent maybe an hour every couple of days with the teacher.

 

Sure, every magic has a group holding a large portion of its teachers (Aside from, again, the ones like Shamanism and Clericism - Which probably won't ever be unlocked anyhow), but not all of them. If, for whatever reason, you can't convince the 'clique' to teach you, there are other teachers to find. If you manage to get on the bad side of the main group, and the teachers not affiliated? Well, that's rp. 

[Mining 129]

Establish firm tiers again and lock all tiers higher than 2, aka beginner/novice level. Logically once you reach a certain point you can't learn further without some sort of guidance, and it would give people a chance to see the person's roleplay to see if they would powergame or not. They could then submit a SHORT application each time they furthered tiers, with examples of their roleplay and recommendations from other players/their roleplay teachers (no more staff-approval-required teachers). People could then post their own evidence of improper magic, roleplay, or powergaming.

Dat my opinion.

Pls note something really is necessary if we're going to have a magic plugin.

I actually quite like this suggestion. A system where anyone could pick up and learn magic to an extent, see if they like it, try the rp of being a novice Mage etc without any form of restriction. But if they want to progress past parlour tricks style magic, gain both respect and 'power', some form of roleplay check or application would be needed. That's a compromise the way I see it.

[Aelu / Rel (Combustionary) 1535]

I actually quite like this suggestion. A system where anyone could pick up and learn magic to an extent, see if they like it, try the rp of being a novice Mage etc without any form of restriction. But if they want to progress past parlour tricks style magic, gain both respect and 'power', some form of roleplay check or application would be needed. That's a compromise the way I see it.

 I agree. It might be a bit complicated to implement, but I think it'd be worth it.

[Draeris 3118]

I actually quite like this suggestion. A system where anyone could pick up and learn magic to an extent, see if they like it, try the rp of being a novice Mage etc without any form of restriction. But if they want to progress past parlour tricks style magic, gain both respect and 'power', some form of roleplay check or application would be needed. That's a compromise the way I see it.

 

Yes, that is true. But who would set the standard of good "Magic RP". How would a novice mage be restricted from powergaming or causing inconviences? And the gaining respect incentive adds yet another OOC thrive to get everyone as friends to progress, which deludes RP friends from OOC friends. I wouldn't mind this to be implented, but it could turn sincerely wrong in my opinion.

[Hydra 513]

I actually quite like this suggestion. A system where anyone could pick up and learn magic to an extent, see if they like it, try the rp of being a novice Mage etc without any form of restriction. But if they want to progress past parlour tricks style magic, gain both respect and 'power', some form of roleplay check or application would be needed. That's a compromise the way I see it.

No that wouldn't work at all, lower tier magic is the stepping stone to higher tier if anything it would work in the reverse. You would need a teacher to teach you basic magic then after that once your t2 to T3 you won't need a mentor anymore

Also domestic magic is the best for doing Parker tricks

[Mankaar 166]

If you don't have the time to properly do something, why should we cheapen that thing as a whole to cater to you? It doesn't require you spend days at a time. When I got Earth Evocation in Asulon? I spent maybe an hour every couple of days with the teacher.

 

Sure, every magic has a group holding a large portion of its teachers (Aside from, again, the ones like Shamanism and Clericism - Which probably won't ever be unlocked anyhow), but not all of them. If, for whatever reason, you can't convince the 'clique' to teach you, there are other teachers to find. If you manage to get on the bad side of the main group, and the teachers not affiliated? Well, that's rp. 

 

Why should we lock everything to cater to your desires of "quality magic roleplay" which would mean minimalist magic roleplayers once more? All in the same really, anyone can have quality magic roleplay it just takes some time and patience teacher or no teacher. If a new system like a complete lock were put in what would be done about all the new magic roleplayers now? Some new teachers have even pop'd up with students all their own. How would we go about finding out who's "really" a teacher? Kicking out people who became teachers after the removal of Ma's would infuriate me and many other new teacher around the server today. As i've said before some of us simply can't put in the time or would rather self teach because it's what we enjoy, some people like being students then let them be students there is no need to lock a whole section of roleplay for people.

[monkeypoacher 6993]

No. I sincerely don't want to navigate the old magic system again, where I had to RP with players I didn't like and deal with skype bullshit constantly pertaining to 'magic' on a Minecraft Fantasy Role-Play server. I'd rather not work for text-only 'magic' on a Minecraft Fantasy Role-Play server. There's no purpose to it other than excluding new magic role-players that get on your nerves. Powergaming is not a serious issue because we have PvP default and ban reports to deal with it.

 

Not to throw around wild accusations, but I don't see this as any more than a means of hoarding OOC power, which was what the later days of the Magic App system seemed like to me. I'd bet, if this system is implemented, we're going to see uber-powerful factions that obtained their influence not by providing interesting role-play or doing something different, but instead just garnering power by hoarding magic teachers amongst themselves. We already have this problem with "guildlocked" magic, I don't see why "guildlocking" basically every magic will help us any better.

[Aelu / Rel (Combustionary) 1535]

Why should we lock everything to cater to your desires of "quality magic roleplay" which would mean minimalist magic roleplayers once more? All in the same really, anyone can have quality magic roleplay it just takes some time and patience teacher or no teacher. If a new system like a complete lock were put in what would be done about all the new magic roleplayers now? Some new teachers have even pop'd up with students all their own. How would we go about finding out who's "really" a teacher? Kicking out people who became teachers after the removal of Ma's would infuriate me and many other new teacher around the server today. As i've said before some of us simply can't put in the time or would rather self teach because it's what we enjoy, some people like being students then let them be students there is no need to lock a whole section of roleplay for people.

 

So, you're saying we shouldn't try to maintain quality?

 

Sure, some players who just 'picked up' magic are good at it - But many are not. The opposite was true for the days of MAs - Some were bad, but most were good. Naturally, a full-lock would have to make a list of current magic uses, and I see no issues with allowing mages who acquired magic during the free period keeping it after a lock. As long as there are magic-revokes once more, for mages (both new and old) who consistently fail to rp magic correctly.

 

The 'time' needed is minimal - I don't advocate a return of the timed 'x screenshots every week for 2 months' system. I was a basic check before getting magic. The student posts in a magic section with his character name, magic type, and teacher. The teacher posts to confirm the student is being taught. Nothing more. It would not be nearly the same level of time needed as before.

 

Self taught? If a magic is getting low on players, I'd see no issue with allowing self-teaching where it'd make sense.

No. I sincerely don't want to navigate the old magic system again, where I had to RP with players I didn't like and deal with skype bullshit constantly pertaining to 'magic' on a Minecraft Fantasy Role-Play server. I'd rather not work for text-only 'magic' on a Minecraft Fantasy Role-Play server. There's no purpose to it other than excluding new magic role-players that get on your nerves. Powergaming is not a serious issue because we have PvP default and ban reports to deal with it.

 

Not to throw around wild accusations, but I don't see this as any more than a means of hoarding OOC power, which was what the later days of the Magic App system seemed like to me. I'd bet, if this system is implemented, we're going to see uber-powerful factions that obtained their influence not by providing interesting role-play or doing something different, but instead just garnering power by hoarding magic teachers amongst themselves. We already have this problem with "guildlocked" magic, I don't see why "guildlocking" basically every magic will help us any better.

Explain to me. How would a faction be able to 'hoard power' if you yourself say magic has no power? Even if it did have power, how would a faction be able to hoard it all when (as I've stated repeatedly) none of the magics that would be locked are in any form a clique? The work that would be needed to turn evocation into something guild-based would be astounding, and somebody who actually managed it would certainly deserve what limited perks came with it.