Elitism, Magic,

[Rig 17591]

This isn't bitching, whining, or moaning. Just a perspective filled reminder to people, and a story of how magic has changed.

Back in the day, when elitism was rampant, and anybody who was friends with somebody with magic could get it in a blink of an eye, when people would get harassed on the forums for simply saying, "can I learn magic?" There were applications for role-play, locked limitations of something because it was simply "special" because of how so few people used it.

It was never rare to see a mage once Anthos hit, yet the applications remained, people couldn't do something if they wanted, and the people who used the applications were often power-gamers who had no respect for dynamic role-play, and a rude outlook on the subject. This would be 2013, on LoTC, there were three kinds of people.

Snooty- the people with both magic and villain applications, often said whatever they wished, argued in looc to no end, and promptly disregarded other people's wants to be like them, people who believed their applications made them special, and gave them the right to do what they wished.

somewhat-snooty- A person with one or the other, but never both applications, the majority. 

players- a person who tried to rp right, had fun, but couldn't get applications accepted because either bias, a lack of proficiency in posting good applications, and looked down on from the higher tiers.

(this is not some judgmental thing, not everybody belongs to one of these three stereotypes, and not everybody in those stereotypes are what the writing says.)

Often, mages (even I, believe me) power-gamed the living heck out of their magic types to try and win occurring fights, our "specialness" made us brash, and attempt to do whatever we want as long as it followed "lore". Cliques were, well, the clique of the time, and people did whatever they wanted with little to no concern of the consequences. This seemed OK for the time, after all, who cares? They wrote application, it got accepted, they're home free!? They can get away with things normal players can't, and that's what caused the issues.

Tiers, people measured their strength and the magic community howled as each person wanted to oocly best another so they could be the next Blundermore, Salamandra, or any other original mage who was well known, they wanted to be REMEMBERED and KNOWN ABOUT because if not, what made them special? If they weren't special, why play?

People think cooperative role-play is a waste of time, so few choose to try it, which is why these issues arise. It was an honest pain, to see a power-gaming mage in your local town bashing the government, and murdering something, unless they were a cleric, or any other holy magic type. 

Locked magic became something that caused people to bring ooc into rp, use ooc for rp reasoning, and in effect was a form of meta-gaining, as well as meta-gaming people didn't care, nobody realized it was wrong, because everybody else did it.

What I'm trying to say here, to both the community and the players with magic, is the following.

You're not special by having magic, you're special by how you use it.

You're not inherently stronger, like anybody else, you have your drawbacks.

RP is a two way street.

Do not "Meta-Gain" or gain something rply through ooc friendships, cliques, and other things considered a group out of character.

Do not believe yourself inherently special, at the end of the day, we're on a pixelated block server having fun, why does it matter if we're remembered or not as long as we enjoy ourselves? It's a game, not real life.

OOC and RP will never be separated, but that does not excuse you to not trying to not bring ooc into rp.

Step out of your comfort zone, you never know what you will find.

Thank you, this is a rant of sorts, but I simply wanted to get the message across, this isn't feedback, merely a post meant to stimulate people's thoughts. 

 

[Lvke 1000]

ok

[E__V__O 2000]

I'll have to agree with this in some cases though, magic isn't special, no matter how much we have of it. Think of it as a different sword combat style many varieties many differences, same with magic. Though what makes someone a special snowflake is when a magic is only allowed to a certain group of people or just one person, that sparks elitism. Though magic is free (mostly) so people shouldn't be complaining. If they see someone use magic that they cannot beat, talk to them about it so they can fix it. Don't go ban happy. Or post topics to remove magic, just since you've had a few bad experiences.

[Samson Option 9652]

Don't forget mentioning the effort to actually step out of my comfort zone, took on a near-dead "magic type", applied a refib then had supposed old "mages" ride the coat-tails.

[WuHanXianShi14 0]

You're not special by having magic, you're special by how you use it.

You're not inherently stronger, like anybody else, you have your drawbacks.

RP is a two way street.

Do not "Meta-Gain" or gain something rply through ooc friendships, cliques, and other things considered a group out of character.

Do not believe yourself inherently special, at the end of the day, we're on a pixelated block server having fun, why does it matter if we're remembered or not as long as we enjoy ourselves? It's a game, not real life.

OOC and RP will never be separated, but that does not excuse you to not trying to not bring ooc into rp.

 

I just take these kind of mages into RP and refuse to acknowledge their powers anywhere near as special and powerful as they think they are.

[LaCabra (Soda) 1519]

Just the main thing I can say is, don't be a d***head. It's a Minecraft server, are you really accomplishing anything when you put someone down?

[Rig 17591]

Don't forget mentioning the effort to actually step out of my comfort zone, took on a near-dead "magic type", applied a refib then had supposed old "mages" ride the coat-tails.

I thought that was flipping grand, I'll add that mate. I remember seeing you doing that, I was very happy that you did.

@LeoWarrior, Yeah, people these days still have the illusion that magic is inherently special, that's why I mentioned it.

[The Fact Core 511]

Just go out and roleplay what ever you love.

 

Be a Gandalf,

 

[Joe_Blackman 253]

where is the discrimination

[spqrSancus 175]

Oh God yes...

 

Times before this and I would never have been able to experience the roleplay that was magic.

 

And now that I have, I've come to realize... It's just like RPing training to use swordplay. There's no inherent difference, just one seems more inherently "arcane" than the other.

 

P.D., have my personal commendations.

[Tentoa 3161]

If you want to get up in a tiff about elitism you can also look at it from the standard that was held before (As proved with shade magic) if a magic was getting out of hand the team would /gut/ it from the server with the assistance of the lore team. Of course people were going to trust their friends more with magic as they didn't want to lose their ability to perform the magic in case the person they taught turned out to be a huge power-gamer (and it would reflect poorly on the teacher almost as much as the student). 

I didn't start practicing magic until the end of the app system and what I saw during that time wasn't elitism, it was powergamers and immature children crying about how no one would trust them with magic when honestly it was a bit special. If you didn't know this, LoTC is one of the only community that /requires/ you to roleplay with others. We're extremely unique in the fact that we cannot outright decline roleplay we do not enjoy. Lord of the Craft focuses on being inclusive and providing fun for everyone at the expense of attitude. Elitism is something this server will /always/ breed. Because if someone can't refuse roleplay with you outright without being in the wrong you get to be as much of a pompous and annoying jerk as you want. Whereas in other communities that won't fault you for refusing bad roleplay. You have to get good and be kind to your fellow roleplayer. 

TL:DNR: LoTC is going to always have elitism. Thats just how our rules have structured the situation. Making posts on it isn't going to solve anything at all and is honestly just going to be seen as 'annoying' to the very group your addressing and they will recede further into their own group to avoid dealing with those who are going to point fingers and whine at them for 'elitism' as a matter of fact. Calling people out on elitism and saying its wrong and that your ideals are superior is the /exact/ definition of elitism.  (some food for thought)

[Praetor 1550]

TL:DNR: LoTC is going to always have elitism. Thats just how our rules have structured the situation. Making posts on it isn't going to solve anything at all and is honestly just going to be seen as 'annoying' to the very group your addressing and they will recede further into their own group to avoid dealing with those who are going to point fingers and whine at them for 'elitism' as a matter of fact. Calling people out on elitism and saying its wrong and that your ideals are superior is the /exact/ definition of elitism.  (some food for thought)

 

So what you're saying is that if you call someone an elitist, you're an elitist. I'm pretty sure that P.D here doesn't consider himself part of an elite like many old time magic users/people with specific skills or positions do. If he's anything like me and a lot of others I doubt he considers himself more important than the average player.

 

You can call an elitist, elitist without being one yourself because no, it isn't the exact definition of elitism.

a select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group or society. = elite

 

Does calling Shiftnative an elitist suddenly make me believe I'm superior to iMattyz? No. Thus, I don't believe I'm superior to the rest of the people here.

 

(names taken on the fly, iMattyz really is a pleb)

 

EDIT: Disagreeing =/= Thinking you're superior

[Lago 2572]

If you want to get up in a tiff about elitism you can also look at it from the standard that was held before (As proved with shade magic) if a magic was getting out of hand the team would /gut/ it from the server with the assistance of the lore team. Of course people were going to trust their friends more with magic as they didn't want to lose their ability to perform the magic in case the person they taught turned out to be a huge power-gamer (and it would reflect poorly on the teacher almost as much as the student).

 

Is Shade your only example? Because Shade was removed because at that time it was a powergaming Everything magic. There was very little Shade couldn't do, and thus Mau5 wanted it gone.

[Tentoa 3161]

So what you're saying is that if you call someone an elitist, you're an elitist. I'm pretty sure that P.D here doesn't consider himself part of an elite like many old time magic users/people with specific skills or positions do. If he's anything like me and a lot of others I doubt he considers himself more important than the average player.

 

You can call an elitist, elitist without being one yourself because no, it isn't the exact definition of elitism.

a select group that is superior in terms of ability or qualities to the rest of a group or society. = elite

 

Does calling Shiftnative an elitist suddenly make me believe I'm superior to iMattyz? No. Thus, I don't believe I'm superior to the rest of the people here.

 

(names taken on the fly, iMattyz really is a pleb)

 

EDIT: Disagreeing =/= Thinking you're superior

You're misinterpreting what I said (which it is possible I have worded it poorly) to consider yourself better for being inclusive and uncaring (which is sadly the larger side of the anti-elitist group) is elitism. Furthermore since you're going to throw another definition at me.

Merriam-Webster dictionary

-Google

Much like piercings own post I'm drawing up the point that to believe you're superior for not being an elitist is literally elitism and it's the pot calling the kettle black, I am not smack talking or putting down P.D I am pointing this out since this is a discussion threat regarding this exact topic. To disagree with the stance is not elitism but due to a large amount of people believing they are superior for not being elitist is. Your argument is correct that to disagree=/=elitism. But to disagree and think yourself superior in your stance does.

 

 

Is Shade your only example? Because Shade was removed because at that time it was a powergaming Everything magic. There was very little Shade couldn't do, and thus Mau5 wanted it gone.

I retract that argument and allow my evidence to fall on the fact that if you trained a poor student, it reflected poorly on you. There was an incident in salvus where a powergaming pyromancer brought a bad name to his teacher by powergaming when in truth he just strayed far off from what he was taught he could and couldn't do. People jump to conslusions, I'd only teach those I trust ergo, my friends or reputable roleplayers if that were still the case. 

EDIT: I could also be wrong in my statement that it is a vast majority of the anti-elitism group that does this and it could just be that the most misinformed and pompous arguments are just loudest.

[Cyndikate 2303]

I just miss the days where you were the only player who had x or did x, and people knew you existed that x was something that people liked.

Now everyone has x. No one gives two shits about it because it's so commonplace. You sit in a corner completely losing value and spark you once had. You try to regain it, only to have failed.