Magic Plugin Low-Down

[Katherine1 362]

Why yes of course! I can't give away too much but you could probably deduce that some very special druids and their counterparts will be holding some keys to some very special rooms that you can't get to unless you get it in good with them. ;)

 

Yes, I am also concerned about that. I am afraid, there is little we can do. :(

 

 

Yes this is indeed my reasoning. Cyndikate please read. :)

 

 

 

No. :)

 

 

 We have nothing new to say to one another we're going in circles, let us remain civil and not get heated about something so trivial.

 

So following lore is trivial? We keep pointing out how it's breaking lore, and your return basically doesn't address the fact that it is breaking lore.

[Boknice275 1588]

Basically, all this'll do is make more people pvp default quick, get unrealistic magic progression speeds and discourage RP. With this added, mark my words, RP combat will become scarse and a rare sight. Everyone will be pvping everyone, that is not a good thing..

[Telanir 6975]

 

Why not just relate this plugin with nexus regions?

 

Yes, that would be another set of work in itself, but think about it:

 

-Each order would have a plot of land within their territory that would be the closest to their all powerful magic giver. Ex. The Aspects for Druids and whatnot.

 

-The only way to access the region, and to make full use of it, is if you are added to the region. This region would be blocked off via force field, saying you can't enter this area if not added.

 

-The other more common magics would be able to be done via open plots of lands. This would be so that the groups that have maintained their magical lore and numbers over the years can be happy and won't be interfered. 

 

-To counteract someone from the special cliques of magic users, they have only access to their own clique's magic. An example of this would be if say, a druid has access and uses his druid spells. He cannot go to say, a plot of land that has access to perform wind magic. This would be the trade off these cliques have. 

 

-If the above isn't well liked, then an alternative would be if they can only learn, say, up to tier 2 spells of the other magics. So if, for example again, a druid has the title of Earth Druid, he would already have access to learning druid magic, and would if need be, be able to find an open plot of land that gives off Earth magic.

 

I honestly feel like this would probably be the only route to go to make it fair and to make people happy. If not, with this much bickering, I could see the Magic Applications coming back.

 

 

Let me just say you're one smart person, friend. :)

 

That is very, very close to something already working within the magic plugin. Trust me, restricted magicks /will/ be restricted properly and thoroughly.

 

Can you do something quick for necromancers? Whatever you've done for conjuration, you can do for necromancy, letting them summon monsters and such. 

 

Aye of course! Magic plugin is open-ended and we will be releasing new spells every week. :)

 

This comment is base mainly to the locked magical groups that have anger towards this plugin. My question to you, is would you rather have none of your groups magic implemented into the plugin that has been developed for a long time and cannot really be altered without waiting a significant amount of time.. Again... Or! Let a few randoms learn your "sacred" magic even if it is slightly lore breaking. Perhaps giving them a chance to see what happens. Perhaps you will infact have a lot of fun RP with those folk.

 

Roll with the tide my friend.

 

Alright, problem solved, I put away the horn to summon Arnold and the druids will hopefully be satisfied like at a KFC buffet.

 

MAH MAN!! Hope you did the trick.

[TavernLich 324]

Okay... so your saying it is to better improve the RP of mages, yes? I don't see that. What I see is turning LotC into an ever growing PVP server. I mean come on, with PvP default and this magic plugin you are basically killing off RP magic, because who wants to RP with a mage when the fight is now even with the added magic plugin? Right?! By adding this plugin and PVP default, you (the staff and those responsible for this) have given the initiative to PVP, I thought this was suppose to be an RP server, which puts RP ahead of everything else. Now, it's turning into a PVP server, your basically throwing us people who actually came here for RP into a pit of pixel- hungry Oreners who does nothing but PVP and ruin those who actually came here to RP! What do I think should happen? Well for starters, LotC's staff should live up to their word of this being an RP server and make it RP default, that way the REAL mages get some fun, rather than some ****er  who wants nothing to do with RP other than being a ****.

 

Sorry for this rant, but this whole PVP default thing with this plugin just gets me mad, I mean the plugin itself is brilliant (well done Telanir) it's the way the plugin is being introduced with PVP default that really gets me raging.

[Boknice275 1588]

Basically what I'm seeing is the encouragement of lore breaking. "Let a few randoms learn your magic, it may be fun," but the thing is the lore doesn't allow for the few randoms to do that. If anything, the lore would have the few randoms make drudic characters and have them develop it through nice, fun RP at the grove, while at the same time they are learning nature magic.

 

That's more fun than meditating and saying you have a magic.

[KarmaDelta 969]

Telanir, on 27 Aug 2014 - 12:04 AM, said:

Let me just say you're one smart person, friend. :)

 

That is very, very close to something already working within the magic plugin. Trust me, restricted magicks /will/ be restricted properly and thoroughly.

 

 

 

Thank you for the compliment. 

As long as it follows some form of constriction with clique based magics, such as shamanism, druidism, shade, necro, cleric, etc., and with those closed plots of lands, then I would say it sounds fair enough. I am sure if this was stated earlier, then I am positive this thread wouldnt be a storm of anger and frustration. 

 

Also, I do hope there is a leveling restriction as well without a teacher, in which you can only go up to tier 1 or something without one. You could end up giving tier 5 level magic to those who are well known in their fields and can help people along as well. This is so that teaching magic isnt obsolete and isn't a waste of time, along with helping regulate powerful magic users.

Even if this is for mechanical use, I still do believe it should follow RP to a certain extent for teaching, it could get out of hand if high tiers arent regulated, and it could get bad real fast.

 

Also as a note, make sure to restrict meditation by age as well. Remember, a 5 year old should not be able to learn high tiers of magic. So the cutoff age should be around the teens in which they can begin to sit idle. I have not read anywhere in this thread bringing that up.

[Kanrath 190]

Two things people seem to have forgotten

 

1: Magic comes with a cost, I expect that learning magic will make being a decent combatant with weapons and armor harder and harder and at some point you will be as good as a high level skilled sword fighter. So don't just assume anyone can/will pick it up. The system does not change the fact bad role play will be frowned on, and the better your roleplay the better you will preform in role play situations, its simply in mc combat that this plug in actually gives you the power to fight people. So, things like divining with the spirits, speaking with the aspects and all those other important flavor bits and peices of your magic so many of you have made will still remain.

 

 

2: We all have accepted this nexus system with a cost. 3 years real life of engineering role play and alchemy and I didn't get any benefits other then the fact I can roleplay both quite skillfully. So cease with the complaining, we all payed a price. The fact is, even if they wanted to, going over the role play for the last 4-5 months after the MT would be very very difficult for the team and would mean any benefits given out could easily be undeserved/not enough ect.

 

The rest below here is more general feedback to comments I've seen. Some of it made me want to hit people with stupid hats and put them in a corner...but I'm feeling nice today.

 

 

 The idea isn't to simply learn magic by sitting on ones rump but to combine the right focuses to allow you to properly formulate the spell during a deep meditation. This will result in spells being a extremely valuable commodity among mages as the powerful ones will often be hidden away by the few/one person who finds the right combination.

 

 

The fact is so many of us have to deal constantly with people stepping on our toes and making our entire roleplay pointless by suddenly saying they are a master this or that. You shouldn't need your rp to be any more important then anyone else just to validate it, if doing so means restricting in in any way said roleplay for others.

 

Also, there is no way in hell giving limited people the ability to grant others higher tiers will in any way be a good thing...that's no better then a clique system you see so often in nations where its all Friends with Perks and hell. The fact is your lucky enough you can get the gms to force your magic to be controlled by small cliques, wanting to be able to have control over all magic is no better then the MT, and we all know how that ended. The fact is the tier system from the start was a way for mages to lord over others for simply having less of a life outside of mc. Like I said befor, you want people to have to come to you, earn it by finding magic and holding onto it so others need to seek you.

 

You want control, earn it. Be the better mage, roleplay and plug in wise, the one others come and seek out to learn magic.

 

 

Besides, once the combat skills are fixed and added, all of the pvpers who like weapons will need to level up said weapons no matter how good tor how long they may have rped them just like you mages, so your getting a head start.

[1 1393]

 

Thank you for the compliment. 

As long as it follows some form of constriction with clique based magics, such as shamanism, druidism, shade, necro, cleric, etc., and with those closed plots of lands, then I would say it sounds fair enough. I am sure if this was stated earlier, then I am positive this thread wouldnt be a storm of anger and frustration. 

 

Also, I do hope there is a leveling restriction as well without a teacher, in which you can only go up to tier 2 or something without one. You could end up giving tier 5 level magic to those who are well known in their fields and can help people along as well. This is so that teaching magic isnt obsolete and isn't a waste of time, along with helping regulate powerful magic users.

Even if this is for mechanical use, I still do believe it should follow RP to a certain extent for teaching, it could get out of hand if high tiers arent regulated, and it could get bad real fast.

 

Also as a note, make sure to restrict meditation by age as well. Remember, a 5 year old should not be able to learn high tiers of magic. So the cutoff age should be around the teens in which they can begin to sit idle. I have not read anywhere in this thread bringing that up.

 

 

Self teaching should not have a limit. SO those of us that are already mages can actually go somewhere...

[TavernLich 324]

E

 

Two things people seem to have forgotten

 

1: Magic comes with a cost, I expect that learning magic will make being a decent combatant with weapons and armor harder and harder and at some point you will be as good as a high level skilled sword fighter. So don't just assume anyone can/will pick it up. The system does not change the fact bad role play will be frowned on, and the better your roleplay the better you will preform in role play situations, its simply in mc combat that this plug in actually gives you the power to fight people. So, things like divining with the spirits, speaking with the aspects and all those other important flavor bits and peices of your magic so many of you have made will still remain.

 

 

2: We all have accepted this nexus system with a cost. 3 years real life of engineering role play and alchemy and I didn't get any benefits other then the fact I can roleplay both quite skillfully. So cease with the complaining, we all payed a price. The fact is, even if they wanted to, going over the role play for the last 4-5 months after the MT would be very very difficult for the team and would mean any benefits given out could easily be undeserved/not enough ect.

 

 

3: The idea isn't to simply learn magic by sitting on ones rump but to combine the right focuses to allow you to properly formulate the spell during a deep meditation. This will result in spells being a extremely valuable commodity among mages as the powerful ones will often be hidden away by the few/one person who finds the right combination

 

Even so, this doesn't stop people from abusing it and also despite these "weaknesses" it won't stop how LotC is being corrupted with PVPers and the like!

[OldeTymer 323]

Ahh, I think I see the problem. It is the result of a miscommunication I believe. Don't fret that I believe that it is unfair to restrict certain magics to certain groups because that is not what I believe and is certainly harmless.

 

Imagine so that you are but one simple person who wishes to learn from such a group, but there is only one, and due to some circumstances it is so that they won't teach you. You won't get this magic. But-- I figure if this person was to try as hard as they possible could to find an alternative way they are able to, but at big costs. Mostly accessibility, as there is we could say, maybe only one or two such spells that bypass groups. If a person dedicated enough time to finding this one flower spell or such (you can make up the reasoning for how as you go idc its your story) the druids could see the effort and dedication someone put in and give them second consideration.

 

It's like a little completely harmless little addition for some added role-play, imagine the surprise from a druid when they find out someone tried hard enough to find this one little spell, I will repeat that restricted magics are indeed restricted and will remain so until admins decide otherwise. :)

 

The druids themselves would not be deprived of any such role-play either, given that to learn any further they are still forced to visit you and present you with this gift.

 

But again, there is no other way to obtain Druidic magic than by going through the Druidic Order, hence the guild-lock on the magic. No matter how hard you "figure" someone was to try, there are NO alternate routes to obtaining Druidic magic. Someone can't "bypass" the Druidic Order to obtain our abilities (guild-lock), because of our lore. The Druids aren't a magic-hungry faction, we're a group dedicated to providing a unique kind of role-play which heavily is based on our rich cultural views.

It it not harmless. Yes, a Druid will be surprised when they find out someone obtained a Druid spell, because it's not possible. One can NOT obtain Druidic abilities without becoming a member of the Druidic Order and undergoing a ritual called "attunement" which gives them the actual ability to harness these gifts.

I honestly don't think you're understanding Druid lore, which is a "Deity-based" lore that requires an individual to undergo an in-game ritual (performed by an existing powerful Druid) to harness the gifts of nature. I would gladly explain Druidism to you; I could and would write a book (or just direct you to existing books). This is belittling our role-play by giving others any sort of access to our guild-locked abilities. It is not up to the Technicians to decide on lore. The lore is set in stone.

My final point on this post: No one person who is not an attuned Druid of the Druidic Order is able to obtain or use nature/Druid magic. It is guild-locked for a reason, after all!

 

 

[Telanir 6975]

Basically, all this'll do is make more people pvp default quick, get unrealistic magic progression speeds and discourage RP. With this added, mark my words, RP combat will become scarse and a rare sight. Everyone will be pvping everyone, that is not a good thing..

 

No offense man but where'd you come from? I presume you didn't join us here at LotC to complain.

 

I also assume you don't know me well enough to trust me or recognize my skill set, but I have been here long enough to know how to balance magic properly and efficiently without needing to mark your words. Thanks, let's keep on good terms and welcome.

 

Okay... so your saying it is to better improve the RP of mages, yes? I don't see that. What I see is turning LotC into an ever growing PVP server. I mean come on, with PvP default and this magic plugin you are basically killing off RP magic, because who wants to RP with a mage when the fight is now even with the added magic plugin? Right?! By adding this plugin and PVP default, you (the staff and those responsible for this) have given the initiative to PVP, I thought this was suppose to be an RP server, which puts RP ahead of everything else. Now, it's turning into a PVP server, your basically throwing us people who actually came here for RP into a pit of pixel- hungry Oreners who does nothing but PVP and ruin those who actually came here to RP! What do I think should happen? Well for starters, LotC's staff should live up to their word of this being an RP server and make it RP default, that way the REAL mages get some fun, rather than some ****er  who wants nothing to do with RP other than being a ****.

 

Sorry for this rant, but this whole PVP default thing with this plugin just gets me mad, I mean the plugin itself is brilliant (well done Telanir) it's the way the plugin is being introduced with PVP default that really gets me raging.

 

Where are you coming from? I have stated and will again say, this plugin is here to augment your role-play and add functionality, not replace. There are many prophesiers on LotC and I understand you want your share of the cake but I promise that this plugin is here to provide you the tools you need to have the best possible experience on LotC. Let me remind you that less than one fifth of all existing spells are combat-oriented in any remote sense.

 

 

Thank you for the compliment. 

As long as it follows some form of constriction with clique based magics, such as shamanism, druidism, shade, necro, cleric, etc., and with those closed plots of lands, then I would say it sounds fair enough. I am sure if this was stated earlier, then I am sure this thread wouldnt be a storm of anger and frustration. 

 

Also, I do hope there is a leveling restriction as well without a teacher, in which you can only go up to tier 2 or something without one. You could end up giving tier 5 level magic to those who are well known in their fields and can help people along as well. This is so that teaching magic isnt obsolete and isn't a waste of time, along with helping regulate powerful magic users.

Even if this is for mechanical use, I still do believe it should follow RP to a certain extent for teaching, it could get out of hand if high tiers arent regulated, and it could get bad real fast.

 

Also as a note, make sure to restrict meditation by age as well. Remember, a 5 year old should not be able to learn high tiers of magic. So the cutoff age should be around the teens in which they can begin to sit idle. I have not read anywhere in this thread bringing that up.

 

 

One minor problem is that you couldn't get anyone above tier 2 then since there'd be no teachers to get to a level higher than that. :P

There are also no 'tiers', it works a bit differently and you will get to personally find out through application and experimentation. :)

 

In terms of age, I'm afraid I do not want to do more work than is necessary because there are always things that we need to attend to. If you are a young'un you can ask them to pretty please refrain from learning magic at young ages but I won't stop you, you may wish to report these players if you really want but I see little point in expending that effort as long as they aren't harming anyone. x3

[Birdwhisperer 1174]

Ahh, I think I see the problem. It is the result of a miscommunication I believe. Don't fret that I believe that it is unfair to restrict certain magics to certain groups because that is not what I believe and is certainly harmless.

 

Imagine so that you are but one simple person who wishes to learn from such a group, but there is only one, and due to some circumstances it is so that they won't teach you. You won't get this magic. But-- I figure if this person was to try as hard as they possible could to find an alternative way they are able to, but at big costs. Mostly accessibility, as there is we could say, maybe only one or two such spells that bypass groups. If a person dedicated enough time to finding this one flower spell or such (you can make up the reasoning for how as you go idc its your story) the druids could see the effort and dedication someone put in and give them second consideration.

 

It's like a little completely harmless little addition for some added role-play, imagine the surprise from a druid when they find out someone tried hard enough to find this one little spell, I will repeat that restricted magics are indeed restricted and will remain so until admins decide otherwise. :)

 

The druids themselves would not be deprived of any such role-play either, given that to learn any further they are still forced to visit you and present you with this gift.

 

It still doesn't make sense and breaks lore. It is very, very unusual that someone is flat out denied the ability to join the order, and if they are it is usually for very good IC or OOC reasons. And if they are denied, then sure they can find ways to bypass the order. They could find a rogue druid and get them to teach/attune them. They can't meditate or find alternative 'spells' because the power over nature comes directly from the druid gods and a druid's connection to them, which can only be attained by being attuned by another druid. Alternatives make no sense.

 

Would it be possible, as a fairly simple mechanical solution, to implement an 'attunement' spell? This spell opens a person up to be able to begin learning druid magic. If you haven't been attuned, you can't learn nature magic. Just give the ability to attune to a few high up druids and the order will go back to self-regulating as it always had.

[KarmaDelta 969]

Self teaching should not have a limit. SO those of us that are already mages can actually go somewhere...

Kitty Cat Jax, on 27 Aug 2014 - 12:16 AM, said:

 

Yeah, I retract my statement about the whole teaching thing and tier 5 nonsense. I thought it over as I just posted it.

My general thought on it was so that it can be better regulated and not turn the server into a magical feeding frenzy mess of high tiers everywhere. This would also make other teaching schools, such as Raine places that you learn magic useless to a degree. 

 

Edit: I was using tiers as a form of example Tel, so you can excuse that. I was just using it as a gauge of abilities since I do not know how leveling would work with this plugin. I have not seen this plugin at all as well. The only magical plugin I saw was Vaq's, and that was pretty much it.

[Boknice275 1588]

 

No offense man but where'd you come from? I presume you didn't join us here at LotC to complain.

 

I also assume you don't know me well enough to trust me or recognize my skill set, but I have been here long enough to know how to balance magic properly and efficiently without needing to mark your words. Thanks, let's keep on good terms and welcome.

You're right, I didn't join you to complain, I joined for a RP server. This is not very RP at all.

 

Secondly, just because I've been here shorter than you has does not mean my opinion is any more or less valid than anyone else's.

 

You did not address my points at all, all you did was basically say "you're new here, you don't know me, let's move on."

 

 

[Telanir 6975]

You're right, I didn't join you to complain, I joined for a RP server. This is not very RP at all.

 

Secondly, just because I've been here shorter than you has does not mean my opinion is any more or less valid than anyone else's.

 

You did not address my points at all, all you did was basically say "you're new here, you don't know me, let's move on."

 

Your opinion is not any less valid. But it is not anything new. I don't recognize any reason why I would have to repeat myself.