Imbalance of Paladin magic

[Runabarn 1028]

So, recently it came to my attention that Xan paladins posses a certain ability. Namely, the ability to create weightless shields and armor, which additionally are capable of hurting dark beings. After discussing with a MAT member, I reached a conclusion. This aspect of paladin magic is insanely overpowered and presents serious balance issues.

Why does something that is supposed to be a small complement to a "large" type of magic completely trump an entire arcane subtype which focuses solely on making shields and barriers? I am talking of arcane shielding, of course. From what I've been told, paladin armor and shields are weightless, but are as tough and durable as their regular ferrum counterparts. Arcane shielding focuses ONLY on creating defensive barriers, and these barriers don't even come close to what paladins can supposedly do. Arcane shields have glass like consistency and are prone to shattering after taking a beating, also they constantly drain the energy of the user while being mantained, which is somewhat compensated by the possibility of making large shields and the fact that they're made of weightless arcane energy, but their durability is still dwarfed by a regular shield, which can take infinitely more punishment without breaking or even denting in the case of a solid tower shield, which is what paladin armor/shields are capable of replicating, while still being weightless to the user. And in the case of paladin armor, that's actual wearable armor, something shielding cannot achieve. Not to mention the fact that paladins don't seem to ever show any signs of fatigue from making use of these holy armors (Powergaming?).

So in short, paladin armor is broken. It either needs a huge nerf or arcane shielding needs a huge buff.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Whimsycal

[WuHanXianShi14 0]

Because (AFAIK) Paladin magic is only effective on dark beings while Arcane Shielding can be used against anyone.

[Runabarn 1028]

Paladin shield and armor are effective against anything, just like regular physical armor. But they have the ADDED property of hurting dark being. At least, that's what I have seen from roleplay, as I witnessed them being used to effectively fight against regular humans holding regular weapons.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Whimsycal

[H 820]

Because (AFAIK) Paladin magic is only effective on dark beings while Arcane Shielding can be used against anyone.

Wait, can regular people phase through those weightless shields? As in, are only dark beings blocked by them?

[DISCOLIQUID 2735]

In terms of space shielded, an arcanist can produce more shield, though a paladin's shield will always outclass theirs in strength, from what I have been told. I have to side with Whimsycal here, questioning why paladinism seems so strong in so many facets. 

[Neri 3590]

I dont get why paladins would need that. The most I can see being rp'ly fair is sanctuary-like wards or consecration that can prevent undead going into places, not a mobile "lol im armoured now" solution. Seems overpowered. I have never seen this type of paladin magic before though.

[Leric 1097]

Because (AFAIK) Paladin magic is only effective on dark beings while Arcane Shielding can be used against anyone.

Wait, can regular people phase through those weightless shields? As in, are only dark beings blocked by them?

That would be no. 

[ACanadianCraft (Nate) 682]

I think the real problem is;

That Arcane Shielding isn't good enough.

Why bother when you can litterally just pick up any shield?

Get your magic better

Smh

Edited October 15, 2015 by ACanadianCraft (Nate)

[Ventusyr 233]

From what I  have been told and from what I have seen in RP, manifested paladin weapons affect everybody, as do cleric magic weapons. They're just better against dark things. Using the magic on normal folk is a moral question for the Orders themselves to figure out.

 

To be honest, Paladins are ridiculously strong. They have no clear defined limits to their healing, other than a vague "weaker than clerics" that seems vaguely abided to. They are now the only Clerical magic to allow learning Voidal magic, after the great purge of Ascended magic (a little too much of a nerf, imo, but that's unrelated), not to mention the balance of the magics isn't defined at all either. They don't need to pray to their patron, making casting time much, much faster than a cleric's. Power progression isn't defined at all, and is largely up to the paladin's discretion how tired they are and what their healing/offensive capabilities are. As of right now, they far outclass Ascended and Clerics based on the vagueness of their abilities and the incredible freedom they have with their divine and Voidal powers.

 

Paladin magic needs a nerf, and not just with their shields. To be honest, a holy manifested shield seems fine to me, just as war clerics and Ascended have holy flame as the holy equivalent of fire evocation (granted, it only affects dark beings, but kinda the same concept), so long as it is the size of a normal shield, and not like the bubble shields arcane shielding can make. Just... Actually be a Clerical magic. Give up the Voidal capabilities. Ascended did, clerics did, it's just Xan paladins. Holy magic should come with a sacrifice to power; it shouldn't be a hobby for extremely powerful mages to dabble in so they can make cool lights and do small healings.

 

And publish some clear lore, so that paladins - and everybody else - knows what their abilities are.

[Neri 3590]

I think the real problem is;

That Arcane Shielding isn't good enough.

Why bother when you can litterally just pick up any shield?

Get your magic better

Smh

I do arcane shielding on one of my characters. It's rarely very useful since combat is too fast and fluid and shields break too easily - which is good, since an unbreakable defense is literally the epitome of frustration. I just do it because it's fun, not because it's powerful.

[GodEmperorFlam 3447]

From what I  have been told and from what I have seen in RP, manifested paladin weapons affect everybody, as do cleric magic weapons. They're just better against dark things. Using the magic on normal folk is a moral question for the Orders themselves to figure out.

 

To be honest, Paladins are ridiculously strong. They have no clear defined limits to their healing, other than a vague "weaker than clerics" that seems vaguely abided to. They are now the only Clerical magic to allow learning Voidal magic, after the great purge of Ascended magic (a little too much of a nerf, imo, but that's unrelated), not to mention the balance of the magics isn't defined at all either. They don't need to pray to their patron, making casting time much, much faster than a cleric's. Power progression isn't defined at all, and is largely up to the paladin's discretion how tired they are and what their healing/offensive capabilities are. As of right now, they far outclass Ascended and Clerics based on the vagueness of their abilities and the incredible freedom they have with their divine and Voidal powers.

 

Paladin magic needs a nerf, and not just with their shields. To be honest, a holy manifested shield seems fine to me, just as war clerics and Ascended have holy flame as the holy equivalent of fire evocation (granted, it only affects dark beings, but kinda the same concept), so long as it is the size of a normal shield, and not like the bubble shields arcane shielding can make. Just... Actually be a Clerical magic. Give up the Voidal capabilities. Ascended did, clerics did, it's just Xan paladins. Holy magic should come with a sacrifice to power; it shouldn't be a hobby for extremely powerful mages to dabble in so they can make cool lights and do small healings.

 

And publish some clear lore, so that paladins - and everybody else - knows what their abilities are.

Yup.

[Leric 1097]

From what I  have been told and from what I have seen in RP, manifested paladin weapons affect everybody, as do cleric magic weapons. They're just better against dark things. Using the magic on normal folk is a moral question for the Orders themselves to figure out.

 

To be honest, Paladins are ridiculously strong. They have no clear defined limits to their healing, other than a vague "weaker than clerics" that seems vaguely abided to. They are now the only Clerical magic to allow learning Voidal magic, after the great purge of Ascended magic (a little too much of a nerf, imo, but that's unrelated), not to mention the balance of the magics isn't defined at all either. They don't need to pray to their patron, making casting time much, much faster than a cleric's. Power progression isn't defined at all, and is largely up to the paladin's discretion how tired they are and what their healing/offensive capabilities are. As of right now, they far outclass Ascended and Clerics based on the vagueness of their abilities and the incredible freedom they have with their divine and Voidal powers.

 

Paladin magic needs a nerf, and not just with their shields. To be honest, a holy manifested shield seems fine to me, just as war clerics and Ascended have holy flame as the holy equivalent of fire evocation (granted, it only affects dark beings, but kinda the same concept), so long as it is the size of a normal shield, and not like the bubble shields arcane shielding can make. Just... Actually be a Clerical magic. Give up the Voidal capabilities. Ascended did, clerics did, it's just Xan paladins. Holy magic should come with a sacrifice to power; it shouldn't be a hobby for extremely powerful mages to dabble in so they can make cool lights and do small healings.

 

And publish some clear lore, so that paladins - and everybody else - knows what their abilities are.

You are correct, paladins can use both voidal and holy magic. HOWEVER, a paladin who is connected to both the void and Xan will find themselves extremely weakened to the point of absolute uselessness. To my knowledge (This will need to be confirmed by Tsu or an LM), if they have a dual connection, they are only capable of T1-T2 in both magics. This limits them severely, and makes it so useless it is practically pointless. (So basically, if you use voidal magic you're so useless there is literally no point.)  Paladin healing is, however it is not made clear anywhere on the forums have very very weak healing in comparison to Clerics. However, on the matter of our capabilities and nothing being defined,you are correct, I don't believe we have anywhere on the forums where people can actually judge that. Though I'll assure you we have entirely stopped recruiting at the time being mainly for that reason. A guide is being worked on to be released so people can understand it fully.

[Birdwhisperer 1174]

 

You are correct, paladins can use both voidal and holy magic. HOWEVER, a paladin who is connected to both the void and Xan will find themselves extremely weakened to the point of absolute uselessness. To my knowledge (This will need to be confirmed by Tsu or an LM), if they have a dual connection, they are only capable of T1-T2 in both magics. This limits them severely, and makes it so useless it is practically pointless. (So basically, if you use voidal magic you're so useless there is literally no point.)  Paladin healing is, however it is not made clear anywhere on the forums have very very weak healing in comparison to Clerics. However, on the matter of our capabilities and nothing being defined,you are correct, I don't believe we have anywhere on the forums where people can actually judge that. Though I'll assure you we have entirely stopped recruiting at the time being mainly for that reason. A guide is being worked on to be released so people can understand it fully.

This is true.

[Mephistophelian 977]

A guide will not do, in my honest opinion. There needs to be a rewrite. This magic is far, far too powerful, with little to no drawbacks at all. Perhaps you should do as the Tah group did and propose an entire rewrite of your lore.

The scary thing is Hesh only mentioned the prevalent issues, and that there are far more issues that are present. We are forgetting the fact that Xan paladins are also maintained in a state of fitness, and can keep their magic functioning without breaking a sweat, as they 'need to be able to use the magic in combat without dying of exhaustion', as I was once told. Sure, you can keep RPing with the vague, poorly documented lore and even vaguer, over powered abilities...But that's up to you.

Remember, RP is all about fun on both sides. It isn't fun fighting against a holy warrior of doom.

[Stag 3234]

Arcane shielding is stronger than any other type of shield. That is a fact. The subtype only focuses on creating shields. It is better than normal shields, and paladin shields in terms of strength and durability. If paladins are creating things stronger than the standard arcane shielding barrier then the problem lies with paladins not having enough regulations. Arcane shielding doesn't need a buff out of this though.

 

-It costs almost nothing to maintain an arcane shield. Only really uses mana to repair or keep the shield from breaking from attacks.

 

-Arcane shields can within much more than a paladin or regular shield and can cover a wider area, not only protecting you but others to the point where you can create multiple full bubbles. A giant boulder comes crashing down on a regular or paladin shield they will still get crushed. An arcane shield has the best chance at stopping the boulder and allowing the victims to escape.

 

-Magical armor should never be a thing non-et should use imo. It was literally the biggest statement when arcane shielding came to be. "NO MAGICAL ARMOR" and I think that rule should apply to paladins too. 

 

Arcane Shield > Paladin shield > Regular shield. 

 

 

Edited October 15, 2015 by BrandNewKitten