[✗] Temporal Theory; The Constitution of the Material Realms

[Swgrclan 2635]

 

 

As the intrinsic makeup of the physical realms (Aerios and Axiom, known before as Aos and Eos, or the two worlds which host the lands of Aegis, Asulon, Anthos, and so on) is vague and undefined, and the mistake of applying real life sciences to these physical realms is reasonably common, I therefore wish to define this intrinsic makeup myself in the most simple means possible - which, of course, will involve cemented canon of the LoTC universe. Thus, I propose the following:

The physical planes of Aerios and Axiom exist suspended in the orderly cosm known as Creation, which is all that the Creator formed after his coming from the Void. Using the power of Creation itself, he formed the universe and defined two forms of heavenly bodies: material, and nonmaterial. Realms defined as nonmaterial usually consist of Immortal, or Aengudaemonic realms, of which the Immortals themselves rule as varying planes based on the Immortal whom rules them. These realms are loose and not bound by a defined physical law, and therefore are only and totally bound by Aengudaemonic jurisdiction, or the jurisdiction of otherworldly beings of higher celestial status (such as spirits within the spirit realm).

Material realms are the heavenly bodies that had been shaped most likely for the purpose to host mortal or material existence. Of all planes which may be identified as material realms, the mortal worlds (Aerios and Axiom respectively) are the most prominent, for these two planes were shaped by the Creator in the beginning times, predating even Aengudaemonic manifestation. The mortal worlds of Aerios and Axiom had been shaped with a form of pure mana - the energy which encompasses all function in the universe - which had been made to form material structures and apply order and shape to the material realms -- essentially why material realms are material. This clandestine, unknown form of mana is called Dormant Mana, for it predates the use of magic, and had been given boundaries and existential regulations that would have it keep it’s orderly, uniform structure and therein keep the mortal worlds bound together.

[ Under the premise of Dormant Mana, the use of real life physics is null for atoms and all that come of them do not apply, as they are canonically displaced by this form of mana. ]

Therefore, when the material worlds were formed, they were given shape and structure by being shaped by this untappable Dormant Mana. However, a world forged solely of Dormant Mana is flawed and embodies utmost order and structure -- planes of crystaline lands, all uniform under the use of Dormant Mana alone. So, the material realms were given truer expression and shape, and most prominently life, by the cosmic creation of Lifeforce; a quintessential, black energy that solely exists in the mortal worlds alone. As Lifeforce, and it’s self-moderating cycles of life, were applied to the material planes, endless varieties of material shape took form like uncountable shades of colors painted upon the face of a canvas. Organic material life came about by this compounding of Lifeforce and Dormant Mana, making the world now what it is.

[ Under the premise of Lifeforce, the real life use of biology and chemistry sciences is null, for cells and other biological aspects are displaced by the functions and intricacies of Lifeforce. ]

By this logic of compounding, all things, even the descendents themselves, are made of Dormant Mana at their very base. It is what gives them structure and material form, and it is Lifeforce that allows them to exist as organic entities. The coalesce of Lifeforce and Dormant Mana bring about a grand form existence, impossibly replicable for it’s forms are infinite in variety and endless in possible shape. The bond of Lifeforce and Dormant Mana is so closely knit, in fact, for when their product of organic shapes are without one or the other, they simply fall apart. Such an event has been known since the dawn of Man as decay -- for life to wither when life itself leaves what it inhabited. It is why corpses, both of mortal (Man and beast) and natural (the trees and the flora) make rot; Lifeforce leaves it’s vessel of structured Dormant Mana, and thus the Dormant Mana fails to retain it’s enfleshed form, and collapses and falls apart until it is all but nothingness. Without Lifeforce, it is said in texts of the old times that mortal form would be stoney and shaped of but clay and water; lifeless and cold, and bound to the restricted uniformity of sole Dormant Mana.

But Dormant Mana has not come to take single, uniform shape anymore. Dormant Mana is the very base of all elements and the forces which act behind them; the chaos of flame, and the heat risen from it; the water, and the life it fuels; the rigidity of earth, and the structure it imposes; and the freedom of the air, and the space it occupies. What Dormant Mana does not make up in the mortal worlds are other forces that act alongside Dormant Mana and Lifeforce; time, space, and the invisible impetus which may defined simply as ‘gravity’. These five aspects of existence are called the Temporal Forces -- however, as only the prior-spoken two are what primarily make up the material realms, the other three shall not be detailed here.

Miscellaneous Notes

- If a form of microscopic-viewing technology is ever developed, and therein used to examine matter at intrinsic levels, all that would be seen would be the orderly, almost crystalline structures of Dormant Mana keeping the observed material in corporeal shape. Likewise, for the compound of Lifeforce and Dormant Mana, such an observation would be similar, yet loose; the Dormant Mana could be seen being shifted by the Lifeforce, willing it to make change and develop life as it is known to.

- Under the logic presented by the temporal theorem, alchemy would be subject to the forces of Dormant Mana. One may surmise, if Dormant Mana is to ever be discovered and defined, that Dormant Mana may be freed from it’s rigid form to allow the elemental workings of alchemy to transpire.

 - The Spirits could be considered to have some degree of reign over the material Temporal Forces, and therefore Dormant Mana and the elements it encompasses, as there lies a direct connection from them (elemental spirits) to the mortal or material planes themselves. 
 

[Runabarn 1026]

Why do we need scientific explanations for fantasy stuff?

[KarmaDelta 968]

14 minutes ago, Whimsylicious said:

Why do we need scientific explanations for fantasy stuff?

 

If you can science The Force in Star Wars, you can science anything.

 

[Locklathlan 41]

3 hours ago, Swgrclan said:

the Dormant Mana could be seen being shifted by the Lifeforce, willing it to make change and develop life as it is known to.

By the above, calling this substance 'mana' is a reuse of a term that would promote confusion; if this substance was related to mana, the effects of lifeforce upon it would cause some of it to produce aura. Which would  mean that over time, all dormant mana is slowly evaporating into aura (which it isn't, or we're in for a fun end of the world) and that there would be a layer of aura existent in/around objects (which there isn't, or we'd have shades pulling aura out of walls). Summarizing this chunk, if this embodies absolute order, the one thing it isn't is mana.

 

This is a roundabout way of saying; what's this sudden fascination with trying to use the word 'mana' to describe all forms of energy? Reusing the word is confusing for newer players (in my opinion), and it would serve our lore much better if we simply used the word 'energy' to describe these forms of substance in the world. Moreover as demonstrated by the above, there is little to no correlation between these two substances; one is produced by the soul of a living being to interact with lifeforce to sustain the body, the other uses lifeforce to. . . promote life by causing change? This is an elaboration that I personally don't see the need for, unless necromancers will gain the ability to halt all alchemical laws in a small area by sapping it dry of lifeforce.

 

Really, just keep everything how it was before - matter is matter, it's made of atoms and stuff. There wasn't any reason it didn't have to be made of atoms, seeing as alchemical laws were vague anyway, but still worked. In all honesty, I feel like this simply bloats lore somewhat - not necessary.

 

EDIT; there's nothing really wrong with the lore on a base level, everything makes sense-ish. Just, don't call it dormant mana, for the sake of my sanity if nothing else. I'm sure there's another word in that humongous vocabulary of yours that would fit the bill better.

[Mephistophelian 972]

So conjurationists can summon lifeforce? Otherwise, how do the beings not rot the moment they are summoned?

[Wendigo 786]

I really like your writing, and you make everything 'make sense'(sorta) from a fantasy 'science' perspective. But I /really/ don't like making everything in a high fantasy role play server set and defined as you have put it down here.

 

Leave it open please.

[Swgrclan 2635]

17 hours ago, Whimsylicious said:

Why do we need scientific explanations for fantasy stuff?

 

2 hours ago, Wendigo said:

I really like your writing, and you make everything 'make sense'(sorta) from a fantasy 'science' perspective. But I /really/ don't like making everything in a high fantasy role play server set and defined as you have put it down here.

 

Leave it open please.

If there's going to be a legitimate fantasy canon with concepts that range to existential levels, magical concepts included, then there must be an explanation as to why things are as they are in this universe. I wrote this to prevent people from piling real life sciences into a fictional universe. If they start doing that, things get messy, and people get more confused from that than they would from something like the temporal theory. Some things cannot be explained without other things remaining empty or without explanation.
 

11 hours ago, Mephistophelian said:

So conjurationists can summon lifeforce? Otherwise, how do the beings not rot the moment they are summoned?

Voidal magics operate on a temporary function, where what they may summon may interact with the world but is not apart of it, and therefore leaves once focus on the evoked thing is lost. Conjurationists fabricate falsities and therefore follow the same rule - the physical things they summon aren't "real" in the traditional sense. So, no, lifeforce is not needed to keep conjured life alive. Conjured life is alive by the will of the conjurationist.
 

15 hours ago, Locklathlan said:

By the above, calling this substance 'mana' is a reuse of a term that would promote confusion; if this substance was related to mana, the effects of lifeforce upon it would cause some of it to produce aura. Which would  mean that over time, all dormant mana is slowly evaporating into aura (which it isn't, or we're in for a fun end of the world) and that there would be a layer of aura existent in/around objects (which there isn't, or we'd have shades pulling aura out of walls). Summarizing this chunk, if this embodies absolute order, the one thing it isn't is mana.

 

This is a roundabout way of saying; what's this sudden fascination with trying to use the word 'mana' to describe all forms of energy? Reusing the word is confusing for newer players (in my opinion), and it would serve our lore much better if we simply used the word 'energy' to describe these forms of substance in the world. Moreover as demonstrated by the above, there is little to no correlation between these two substances; one is produced by the soul of a living being to interact with lifeforce to sustain the body, the other uses lifeforce to. . . promote life by causing change? This is an elaboration that I personally don't see the need for, unless necromancers will gain the ability to halt all alchemical laws in a small area by sapping it dry of lifeforce.

 

Really, just keep everything how it was before - matter is matter, it's made of atoms and stuff. There wasn't any reason it didn't have to be made of atoms, seeing as alchemical laws were vague anyway, but still worked. In all honesty, I feel like this simply bloats lore somewhat - not necessary.

 

EDIT; there's nothing really wrong with the lore on a base level, everything makes sense-ish. Just, don't call it dormant mana, for the sake of my sanity if nothing else. I'm sure there's another word in that humongous vocabulary of yours that would fit the bill better.

Mana doesn't exist in canon as a sole means to cast magic, it is the primary "energy" of the Creator's cosmos. The reason I applied mana as the way matter was formed was because I was following the logic of the prior-mentioned fact; creating another form of energy or the like to explain what Dormant Mana is would be confusing. Also, I thought I made it clear in the lore that Dormant Mana is an ancient, altered form of mana, therefore explaining why it was used to create matter and turn the material worlds into corporeal planes. If you want it even more simplified, Dormant Mana is matter. It encompasses all forms of matter in the mortal worlds, and all physical elements included within it. It's not literal mana you may draw and use - it's different, and it's tangible, because it was used to made up all matter at microscopic levels. At the end of this point, however, it doesn't really matter what Dormant Mana is or what exactly it derives from, because it's just our explanation as to why things are physical, and I just needed a way to relate it to server canon so I went with what I have now. I had tried to make it distinct and unlike usable mana by giving it it's current name. 

As for the coalesce of Dormant Mana and Lifeforce, I thought that I defined that well enough as well - maybe not. The compounding of Dormant Mana (or matter, whatever you wish to call it) and Lifeforce was my attempt to convey how organic life works. Dormant Mana can take shape and form things such as elements, but elements are lifeless and nonorganic. They are lifeless because they have no Lifeforce. When Dormant Mana and Lifeforce are bound together, they create corporeal shape but this matter may be considered "alive" and not desolate as what Dormant Mana alone may create. So, in summary, the system is this: Dormant Mana may create earth, fire, water, air, and all barren corporeal things that may come of these physical elements. Dormant Mana and Lifeforce may create fields of tall grass, boundless forests, organic entities from beast to man, and organic necessities like blood or other various bodily or lively fluids come from the very same combining of Dormant Mana (matter) and Lifeforce. Lifeforce alone, however, cannot achieve anything beyond fueling these organic forms of matter. That is explained in separate, canonized Lifeforce lore, which is also public.

To address the last point, necromancers already sap "alchemical laws" by pulling Lifeforce from an area where it is organically compatible. They draw Lifeforce from living things made of Dormant Mana (matter), and then the Dormant Mana falls apart - it decays. Their powers only encompass all that which is powered by Lifeforce, which is... living stuff. Not elements or the earth itself. As for bloating lore, I don't think this would do that at all. If you think about it there's actually a gap in the universal canon and this is a means to fill it, because all that currently occupies the gap are loose applications of real life sciences. Which triggers me.

Changing the name of Dormant Mana isn't an issue to me, but if it's current design is deviated from then more terms would have to be devised and then it would actually, truly, become confusing. This lore provides a simple alternative to explain a part of the universe instead of apply zany, out-of-wack real life science **** which doesn't really connect to anything, akin to how you can't push two magnets together without struggle.

[Runabarn 1026]

1 hour ago, Swgrclan said:

If there's going to be a legitimate fantasy canon with concepts that range to existential levels, magical concepts included, then there must be an explanation as to why things are as they are in this universe. I wrote this to prevent people from piling real life sciences into a fictional universe. If they start doing that, things get messy, and people get more confused from that than they would from something like the temporal theory. Some things cannot be explained without other things remaining empty or without explanation.

 

I believe that making up a whole theory completely different from what everyone is familiar with (real world fundamental laws) is going to have the opposite effect. You're going to have people even more confused as to how things work in this universe and it's going to detract from the fantasy aspect of the game with the highly clinical tone. I understand your intention is to provide better understanding of the world, but when it comes to fantasy and roleplay, some things are simply not meant to be given a thorough explanation. This is just like dissecting a frog, you're going to learn everything about it, but you will also kill it in the process. If you dissect the fantasy of this server you're going to end up killing it. No one wants to read an essay to begin to understand how to play in a minecraft server.

 

Not everything needs an explanation, some things are better left open ended and simple. Valuing lore over actual player enjoyment is a dangerous thing.

[Teaspoon 13]

I agree with Whims that in a fantasy world, somethings are jest bedder left mysterious and unown, but I also do not disagree with trying to enplane, and form theories about the said fantasy universe. I think, I would like this bedder if it was done by an actual persona from Valor 

[Locklathlan 41]

It appears that you and I (and quite possibly much of the server) have a very different apprehension of what exactly mana is; mana, (to me), is the force produced by the souls of living beings to accquisition interaction with forces beyond those that can be interacted with using standard organs and tissues, to promote and prolong life. Not once have I ever read, that mana is the energy the Creator used to create the world(that is, the clay so to speak, not the fuel in the kiln). In fact, I am fairly certain that it is said the Creator shaped all things from the /Void/, which would actually mean the universe was made of voidal energies brought under laws of a less chaotic nature. Additionally, not once did I note that it is solely the energy needed to perform magic - in truth, it is simply a force used to interact with life force, if we observe the intended use of it (the intended use being, why the Creator gave it unto his creatures, to allow them to interact with lifeforce).

 

However, in the way you reword what it is you are proposing, I can see what you mean - the way you had phrased it originally did not (in my understanding) culminate in the creation solely of living things, but simply of change. Reading your rewording, I can actually support this as it does appear to make sense - I will stress however, that aside from in one piece of lore that I have read, truly, it has never been directly stated that all matter is made of a form of mana. Only in one particularly old document explaining the basics of voidal translocation has this been mentioned, and even then, whenever it was explained to me recently, there was no break down of mana, simply of the object into 'information' that could be reconstructed.

 

If I have managed to miss the document this was highlighted in, you have my most sincere apologies - otherwise, up to this point, the world has been constructed of 'normal matter', that was brought into existence from the energies of the Void (which are most certainly not mana) by the Creator.

 

My last point still stands - you even point out how unlike mana 'dormant mana' is, in that it cannot be tapped for power. If this is the case, what exactly connects these two energies to give them the same subtype? You have yet to point out at all how they are the same - making up matter, and sustaining life, are entirely different roles. If it isn't 'literal mana' as you put it, it isn't mana at all.

[Swgrclan 2635]

3 hours ago, Whimsylicious said:

 

I believe that making up a whole theory completely different from what everyone is familiar with (real world fundamental laws) is going to have the opposite effect. You're going to have people even more confused as to how things work in this universe and it's going to detract from the fantasy aspect of the game with the highly clinical tone. I understand your intention is to provide better understanding of the world, but when it comes to fantasy and roleplay, some things are simply not meant to be given a thorough explanation. This is just like dissecting a frog, you're going to learn everything about it, but you will also kill it in the process. If you dissect the fantasy of this server you're going to end up killing it. No one wants to read an essay to begin to understand how to play in a minecraft server.

 

Not everything needs an explanation, some things are better left open ended and simple. Valuing lore over actual player enjoyment is a dangerous thing.

I'm not exactly sure of your position, considering that you say in one hand that everyone is already acclimated to using real life sciences to explain the deeper intricacies of this fictional universe, and in the other say it's improper to "dissect" the fictional universe with explanations as to how some of the stuff in this fictional universe works. This proposition aims to replace what people think that there is, with something that is more aligned with server canon. By no means will it disrupt roleplay in any reasonable circumstance, because the temporal theory just replaces the loose assumption of what there is, and settles into the gap I addressed in my last post. Unless someone creates a microscope in roleplay, uses it and discovers the world is not made of essences beyond the 4th wall, and subsequently is upset about it, this will not deter roleplay. It is a means to better explain what there is, and to make sure mistakes are not made in the future.

Even then, while your point on revealing the secrets of the universe can be prone to disrupting the flow of roleplay in some sparse aspects, it's not like I wrote up a textbook on magical sciences here. What is defined is how matter, both nonliving and organic, exist in the mortal worlds. I probably used the most simplistic way of portraying this, whereas the currently-used alternative of real life science application does not follow a simplistic design, and instead is host to a vast array of details to understand and thereafter try to incompatibly apply to LoTC canon.

[Runabarn 1026]

This will deter roleplay in the form of OOC bickering and whining about lore that is growing ever more annoying.

 

((you can't do that! Lore says stuff is made of mana and lore says this blahblah!))

 

or

 

((Everything is mana lets make things poof with Fi magic lel))

 

This piece of lore is unnecessary, and will only allow for more confusion and unenjoyable experiences to happen. Things are things, just let it be.

 

[Swgrclan 2635]

20 minutes ago, Whimsylicious said:

This will deter roleplay in the form of OOC bickering and whining about lore that is growing ever more annoying.

 

((you can't do that! Lore says stuff is made of mana and lore says this blahblah!))

 

or

 

((Everything is mana lets make things poof with Fi magic lel))

 

This piece of lore is unnecessary, and will only allow for more confusion and unenjoyable experiences to happen. Things are things, just let it be.

 

Your claims are unrealistic and unreasonable, and not very applicable to the purpose of this lore at all. If people are confused, they may read this for five minutes, and then understand, and if they're confused further they may contact a Lore Master - or, even better, the person who wrote this, me. But I digress, I don't see this discussion going anyway else now, so no matter.

[Farryn 812]

This lore has been voted on and has been denied. The reason why it has been denied is because it goes too in depth and should be vague to some extent to create mystery. Additionally the lore seems a bit obtuse and irrelevant. Defining the metaphysics of the world could potientally dampen the RP of others and it is not particularly necessary.

[Farryn 812]

This Lore has been denied. Topic moved to Denied Lore forum.