The Corrosion of Immortal Essence

[ToodIes 1259]

4 minutes ago, Voorhis said:

Broader survival rate in the sense that they are less susceptible to fatal wounds. This doesn't imply that they regenerate midst combat, or anything of that sort. They simply recover from their wounds more quickly than a normal person would. 

That's why I said " better healing powers than a normal person " 

 

5 minutes ago, arakrsptec said:

Where did you get the idea they could not be killed unless by a Keeper? It's as if you're killing an Orc. You do not need holy super powers.

I was saying how they could only be easily be killed by something like a Keeper, in response to Cneyele saying that some entities could easily kill them.

[Monomakhos 1838]

I don't see how something as minute as enhanced regenerative abilities renders them unassailable by all but holy magic users, which was the point you were making. Say you get a cut that heals in two weeks? A Nephilim would heal in two-thirds or perhaps half of that time. You can kill more or less every type of spook without holy magic or an aurum sword, its only more arduous of a task and I don't see how this is any different in that regard.

[ToodIes 1259]

10 minutes ago, Voorhis said:

I don't see how something as minute as enhanced regenerative abilities renders them unassailable by all but holy magic users, which was the point you were making. Say you get a cut that heals in two weeks? A Nephilim would heal in two-thirds or perhaps half of that time. You can kill more or less every type of spook without holy magic or an aurum sword, its only more strenuous to do so and I don't see how this is any different.

The enhanced regeneration, coupled with all the other benefits that I listed in my previous posts, is why I believe that this would be virtually unkillable by anything other than a holy magic user. The regeneration in itself isn't the only reason, it merely adds on to the others.

I will continue to stand on this point until aerial revises it so they're weak to gold, which would put them around the same level as Darkstalkers that can use Dark magics in combat in my opinion.

[excited 10836]

Updated.

[excited 10836]

2 hours ago, drfate786 said:

 

Just because my lore got denied doesn't mean I'm incorrect about this. 

Actually it does, you're upset over the name? I'm sorry that you feel that way. 

 

2 hours ago, Toodles78 said:

The enhanced regeneration, coupled with all the other benefits that I listed in my previous posts, is why I believe that this would be virtually unkillable by anything other than a holy magic user. The regeneration in itself isn't the only reason, it merely adds on to the others.

I will continue to stand on this point until aerial revises it so they're weak to gold, which would put them around the same level as Darkstalkers that can use Dark magics in combat in my opinion.

Regeneration is useless in combat, in order for it to work the individual must be sleeping or unconscious long after the conflict happened. They are weak to gold, I just forgot to add that into the new set of cons which I've been tediously working on. Aurum ruptures their form effectively. 

[excited 10836]

13 hours ago, Sultan said:

I do not mind the lore, but I do find it bland and just another group from the mentioned list of creatures/evilbeings that does not change much. I think you can do better to be honest and make it way more interesting. 

These beings are produced through the Dark Arts but they're not completely evil, it depends on the character. I will be writing more of an origin shortly though, and I'll try to make it a good one! 

 

10 hours ago, Jacko said:

 

This seems awfully similar to Dragon Age's Reaver lore. http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Reaver

 

That aside though, how would you see this contributing to the server? As it seems like anyone who wants to play in conjunction with the darker side of LOTC, I.E Necromancers etc, can already have a variety of choice. What makes a Nephilims play style different from that Deathstalker? It just seems to me, an unneeded addition to the lore.

 

The idea of gaining some sort of strength from ichor is interesting, grant you. I just think this lore could stand to be a little more general, and, not so centralized I suppose.

Nephilim as an addition are intended to be akin to the Grave Lords, in retrospect they are combatants who're capable of retaining the Mortal Arts or lesser hex magics such as Soul Puppetry. Think of them as an active legacy of the old Grave Lords, the spawn that arose in their name seeking to usurp their place on the spectrum come the purification of the souls inside the Black Nexus. I see lots of intrigue in the future, I see people realizing that perhaps the Dark Arts aren't so bad, or that perhaps these things need to be slain, they're twisted offspring of diluted dragon blood after all. I see lots of positive player Nephilim interaction, as well as lots of conflict between both parties if there are disagreements. It's a way to ascend through the means of the Dark Arts in a way that permits you to continue living at the cost of your soul and deity-bound connections. It won't be like the old Wraiths or Itharel where they're inactive and effectively waiting to be trashed, these will definitely own up to their name. 

 

9 hours ago, Man of respect said:

I agree with Katari. They're way too strong and have little to no cons.

I also agree with Mogroka. The lore feels sort of empty, little to no backstory.

Augurs are already overpowered. Making a pseudo-counter to augurs because they can't be easily killed feels weird; from my point of view, it follows the same psychology, considering they can only be created by dark wizards and alike.

 

My point is:

Give it more lore; on the status quo, it feels empty. Give it more weaknesses to counter it's strenghts.

Backstory is being added, as for Augors, these aren't intended to be too reminiscent of them I was just making a comparison to make the point that similar creatures do already exist in LoTC canon and that these are definitely something we need, not all darkness is "hahaha im a bone man invented to kill you." I like Liches, I like Darkstalkers, these serve as a middleground created through scarcer means that allow for the participant to remain alive or regain strengths that they had before they possessed fouler arts. It's simply just a new alternative route inbetween Lich and Darkstalker, a healhy mix that's all the more tantalizing because they can fit in among normal people since they're not gods of death or gods of light. 

[ToodIes 1259]

A few things:

 

Firstly, I wholeheartedly agree with the modifications you've made. But, as a result, the Nephilim seem somewhat like entirely normal people with new strengths and weaknesses, except for the 'Enwraithed' state. I have a few suggestions to make them more unique, and I would definitely appreciate it if you took the time to read and consider them.

 

-I suggest making the Enwraithed form more likely to be forced upon the player than it is now. There really aren't many ways to force a PK on a creature like this, honestly. Perhaps Nephilim could become Enwraithed if they choose to be, or if they roll an unlucky number, or if it depends on how they died, or if they die a certain amount of times. As the Enwraithed mechanic seems to be one of the more unique characteristics of the Nephilim, it may go unused if they can only become it through a forced PK situation. (And if you do end up making it easier to become Enwraithed, perhaps a correspondingly shorter 'recharge' time?)

-Also, I think it'd benefit the Lore if every time a Nephilim became an Enwraithed, that their mental stability likewise decreases. They're literally being forcibly ripped from their bodies into a ghostlike form, and also experiencing death; a decrease in sanity would probably be logical. I know that they already have a degree of mental instability due to their condition, but perhaps this addition could better outline how and when it happens, thus making it easier to RP.

Also, I noticed some inconsistencies in the Lore. As it said in the 'Pros' section, 

17 hours ago, aerialkebab said:

Preserved Physique: dark magic and weapons/armor can be used in tandem, but strength and endurance remains average.

However, this appears to contradict two other parts of the Lore; one in the 'Redlines' section, 

17 hours ago, aerialkebab said:

Nephilim do in fact tire during combat, and cannot use spells in conjunction with swordplay.

And also in the 'Physiology/Cataclysm' section:

17 hours ago, aerialkebab said:

Nephilim do not reach the pique of the mortal physical condition instantaneously, but instead holds a greater capacity for it

 

 

That all being said, with your modifications and additions, the Lore is quite well-written and impressive. 

[excited 10836]

1 hour ago, Toodles78 said:

A few things:

 

Firstly, I wholeheartedly agree with the modifications you've made. But, as a result, the Nephilim seem somewhat like entirely normal people with new strengths and weaknesses, except for the 'Enwraithed' state. I have a few suggestions to make them more unique, and I would definitely appreciate it if you took the time to read and consider them.

 

-I suggest making the Enwraithed form more likely to be forced upon the player than it is now. There really aren't many ways to force a PK on a creature like this, honestly. Perhaps Nephilim could become Enwraithed if they choose to be, or if they roll an unlucky number, or if it depends on how they died, or if they die a certain amount of times. As the Enwraithed mechanic seems to be one of the more unique characteristics of the Nephilim, it may go unused if they can only become it through a forced PK situation. (And if you do end up making it easier to become Enwraithed, perhaps a correspondingly shorter 'recharge' time?)

-Also, I think it'd benefit the Lore if every time a Nephilim became an Enwraithed, that their mental stability likewise decreases. They're literally being forcibly ripped from their bodies into a ghostlike form, and also experiencing death; a decrease in sanity would probably be logical. I know that they already have a degree of mental instability due to their condition, but perhaps this addition could better outline how and when it happens, thus making it easier to RP.

Also, I noticed some inconsistencies in the Lore. As it said in the 'Pros' section, 

However, this appears to contradict two other parts of the Lore; one in the 'Redlines' section, 

 

And also in the 'Physiology/Cataclysm' section:

 

 

 

That all being said, with your modifications and additions, the Lore is quite well-written and impressive. 

The Enwraithed State is also remnant of the old, original piece which held more things that allowed this to differentiate -- again the LMs disliked the original concept of them feeding on the ether contained in deific connections and creatures/entities. They now serve as an OOC mechanic for players who leave the server or PK, or if they abuse the boons/power-game it to the extreme they'll be put into a permanent Enwraithed state which serves as a good risk to those seeking it purely for power.

Think of the Enwraithed as the Enshadowed soul, the Darkened aiua whereas the Nephilim form acts as a living shell for it. If the outside body is destroyed the pit falls out, there are two kinds of Enwraithed, static (the ooc mechanic) and revival (reconstructing). Further elaborations will be made and I'll continue to modify Physiology/Cataclysm since it's somewhat outdated.

[Monomakhos 1838]

I believe the supposed inconsistencies you pointed out are referring not to spells being used amidst swordplay, but rather, Nephilim are able to possess magic such as necromancy without suffering the physical degradation that it typically causes. So they can practice a dark magic and not be crippled in terms of physique, but cannot use the magic itself while in close quarters combat - which is the case with any magic due to the matter of concentration and focus. I could but wrong, and if so, Aerial can rectify my statement.

[excited 10836]

1 hour ago, Voorhis said:

I believe the supposed inconsistencies you pointed out are referring not to spells being used amidst swordplay, but rather, Nephilim are able to possess magic such as necromancy without suffering the physical degradation that it typically causes. So they can practice a dark magic and not be crippled in terms of physique, but cannot use the magic itself while in close quarters combat - which is the case with any magic due to the matter of concentration and focus. I could but wrong, and if so, Aerial can rectify my statement.

Bagley is correct.

[Swgrclan 2636]

I believe, based on Aerial's superbad garbage terminology and contrived conceptual portrayal of this lore (jews amirite, I hate Aerial so much Jesus Christ), that the actual prowess of the Nephilim has been misunderstood. I've spoken with him recently regarding the clarity of the pros and cons, and after surmising what should be apparent, it made it pretty apparent how balanced Nephilim actually are -- their existence is merely a means to escape death, while remaining mortal, at the cost of the weaknesses that all undead entities bear. One may consider them weaker than some, in fact; I've seen some comparisons to Darkstalkers in here, so as the sole developer as that particular piece of lore, I may make an accurate parallel between them:

Darkstalkers

- Undead; they are skeleton warriors, and therefore are incapable of feeling pain or suffering even extreme elemental hazards.

- Magical strength; with their muscles being replaced by a faux-strength borne of the necromantic powers that raised them, physical fatigue cannot be comprehended, and only means to compound upon their martial skill and combative ability.

- Lifedrain; Darkstalkers bear the ancient power of Lifedrain, as both an effective weapon and a means to satiate their cravings of Lifeforce. This sole magical ability is considered a supplement to replace the ability to cast common forms of magic.

- Weak to gold and holy magic, and must drain life to remain sane and playable.

- Necrolyte; Darkstalkers are given a mechanical buff to heighten their effectiveness in PvP.

 

Nephilim

- Alive; they are living, breathing people, and therefore feel pain as everyone else does and is only resistent to elemental hazards in a minor degree. As living people, Nephilim are capable of being wounded and physically traumatized in combat.

- Immortality; they are physically incapable of death. Specifically, they are physically incapable of dying to old age or via corporeal destruction, but not being defeated in combat, where death and death's properties are mimicked until the body regenerates from its wounds some time later.

- Physical Perseverance: borne of their consumption of dragons' blood, Nephilim are capable of wielding a duality of common armaments (weapons and armor) as well as Dark Arts in combat. Understandably, it's often one skill must be used over the other in order to maintain a cohesive grasp in violent situations, but the use of both of these can make Nephilim formidable foes.

- Dark Soul; they suffer what is known as a darkened soul in that all magics beyond Dark Arts are unable to be used, as the shadow which obscures their spiritual essences denies all deific connections from being established, all power-granting curses are blocked from attachment, and their inherent Voidal connections are "broken", so to speak.

- Enwraithdom; after suffering what, in comparison to another player, is defined as permanent death, Nephilim regress into a state of existence known as Enwraithdom. This grants no extra powers and is a means to display the dark nature of Nephilim to all that behold them, for the state is undisguised. This can last up to three months, which means to play an Enwraithed Nephilim may be really neat for roleplay aesthetic, but bad for general existence - such an unholy appearance is one many people would want to fear and seek to purge, and disallows the Enwraithed to partake in the mortal, living aspects of life which they became Nephilim to retain.

- Undying Flaws; they suffer from gold weaponry and holy magic.

- Mortal; Nephilim are given no mechanical buffs.

 

Comparing these two concepts shows that Nephilim are objectively less powerful than Darkstalkers; their immortality prevents the use of magics beyond Dark Arts, retains mortal weaknesses, makes them weak to all things usually confined to the undead races - gold and Aengulic powers. They also risk becoming Enwraithed if they enter a situation where being PKed is possible, which can last up to 3 months. All of these burdens are accepted in order to 1) never die and 2) wield weapons and (dark magic) in tandem, which is only circumstantially useful. I'd consider Nephilim quite balanced.

[GDPR 014 25]

Good lore. Sad the ether drain is gone though.

[ToodIes 1259]

5 hours ago, Voorhis said:

I believe the supposed inconsistencies you pointed out are referring not to spells being used amidst swordplay, but rather, Nephilim are able to possess magic such as necromancy without suffering the physical degradation that it typically causes. So they can practice a dark magic and not be crippled in terms of physique, but cannot use the magic itself while in close quarters combat - which is the case with any magic due to the matter of concentration and focus. I could but wrong, and if so, Aerial can rectify my statement.

My apologies. His usage of the phrase " dark magic and weapons/armor can be used in tandem " lead me to believe that the specific passage meant concurrently, as the definition of 'in tandem' is " alongside each other; together." as indicated by a Google search. But I digress to the main purpose of this post.


It seems to me that the essential concept the Nephilim is based on is that they're completely normal people who have some Undead weaknesses along with the ability to wear armor while casting certain Dark magics (because using a sword with armor is something anyone can do). Honestly, the 'immortality' thing seems completely aesthetic; as it's darn near impossible to force someone to PK with this race (I think the only way is if they were a captured nation leader), thus Enwraitheds could only come along if the player chooses to become that spectral form, like Augurs functionally. The same immortality effects mechanically could be attained through not turning /persona autoage on, or just doing /persona addbio [Actual Age: 25]. And IRPly, you can't actually /know/ if you're immortal or not, as pretty much everyone is revived when killed. The only way this immortality could be showed IRP is through humans not dying of old age; but that'd require a human who's already really old becoming a Nephilim, despite the fact that it'd be infinitely easier to extend your lifespan by becoming an Augur. In all probability, the only people who'd want to and would be able to become a Nephilim rather than an Augur would be Dark Magic practitioners, unless they decided to become another immortal transcendent that only a dark magic practitioner could aspire to. If all that seemed a bit twisty, I'm just illustrating how the 'immortality' aspect won't really provide RP.

 

Thusly, I have my doubts about the Nephilim providing unique RP, or unique RP that isn't very limited in scope. Normal people will contribute normal RP, for which we have numerous races. 

[𝙻𝚞𝚟 XO 3077]

After reading the updated version and all of this back and forth banter... I would say this lore is pretty solid and deserves a shot, like I had stated before.

 

Also, Dr.fate please stop bringing up your lore, it's over.

 

[excited 10836]

2 hours ago, Toodles78 said:

My apologies. His usage of the phrase " dark magic and weapons/armor can be used in tandem " lead me to believe that the specific passage meant concurrently, as the definition of 'in tandem' is " alongside each other; together." as indicated by a Google search. But I digress to the main purpose of this post.


It seems to me that the essential concept the Nephilim is based on is that they're completely normal people who have some Undead weaknesses along with the ability to wear armor while casting certain Dark magics (because using a sword with armor is something anyone can do). Honestly, the 'immortality' thing seems completely aesthetic; as it's darn near impossible to force someone to PK with this race (I think the only way is if they were a captured nation leader), thus Enwraitheds could only come along if the player chooses to become that spectral form, like Augurs functionally. The same immortality effects mechanically could be attained through not turning /persona autoage on, or just doing /persona addbio [Actual Age: 25]. And IRPly, you can't actually /know/ if you're immortal or not, as pretty much everyone is revived when killed. The only way this immortality could be showed IRP is through humans not dying of old age; but that'd require a human who's already really old becoming a Nephilim, despite the fact that it'd be infinitely easier to extend your lifespan by becoming an Augur. In all probability, the only people who'd want to and would be able to become a Nephilim rather than an Augur would be Dark Magic practitioners, unless they decided to become another immortal transcendent that only a dark magic practitioner could aspire to. If all that seemed a bit twisty, I'm just illustrating how the 'immortality' aspect won't really provide RP.

 

Thusly, I have my doubts about the Nephilim providing unique RP, or unique RP that isn't very limited in scope. Normal people will contribute normal RP, for which we have numerous races. 

I've found this to be an issue too Toodles, I'll try to find more to change it, I'm just being incredibly careful because people keep screaming in general that these things are modeling themselves/copy catting other existent Dark Arts and the LM prerogative atm does not condone slight similarities. I'll see what I can do.