Strigae - Children of the Unseen

[Esterlen 4462]

35 minutes ago, Yuln said:

So... basically these are male Fja who are way stronger?

 

Not at all. 
 

I knew the frost witch lipstick critics would be ready to leap upon this - I invited you to, after all - but I had hoped that they'd at least do me the courtesy of reading the post in full before attempting to crucify me for it. 

 

6 minutes ago, Pess said:

This is a frost witch but a male counterpart and without the bad traits that comes to having sharp teeth for example or the other weaknesses.

 

Not two sentences in and you've contradicted yourself. The paragraph explicitly mentions having sharp teeth as well as numerous 'bad traits' (By which I presume you mean clearly identifying traits) such as pale skin, a singular eye color and diminished skin temperature - what do you mean without? Yes, frost witches share some of these traits - how is this a bad thing? We've written eight-thousand words here, the least you can do is take it in its entirety instead of focusing on a few extremely general sentences that overlap with frost witch lore, taking note that it's not even your lore to begin with. I don't know what's going on with Urara these days and we didn't always see eye to eye, but I know that one thing she did stand for was lore creativity and the development of anything innovative and new that would enrich dynamic roleplay. I find it hard to believe that she'd take the first opportunity to bash something that possibly threatened her lore's 'special snowflake' (Pardon the pun) status.

 

18 minutes ago, Pess said:

These are not weaknesses, these are merely what "could" happen but this isn't going to be moderated so I wouldn't count them as a weakness. They can be "ignored".

 

Yes, these are weaknesses. I don't know if there's some language barrier issues going on with you or something because to anybody who has any real understanding of the way those sentences are very clearly phrased, they are weaknesses. Period. If you want to roleplay as part of this lore, you are doing so under extremely strict and moderated regulations, which you pledge to adhere to under all circumstances. Nobody will get away with ignoring them, not even the lore's creators. 

 

21 minutes ago, Pess said:

I might have missed it, but is this the only counter for a Striga in non bestial form? If so then it's once more way too strong.

 

You definitely have missed it. Read the document again, in full this time. 

 

22 minutes ago, Pess said:

This is basically the only drawback I can see in this but they're still going to be tremendously strong.

 

Again, read the document again. There's a whole plethora of drawbacks which you're obviously being either selectively blind to or just plain ignoring. I daresay there's a great deal more weaknesses than your frost witches - the inability and lack of any respective creature magic being key here.

 

25 minutes ago, Pess said:

There's nothing unique with these in terms of bad traits that comes to it and much too close to something that already exists. Unoriginal on many points, a mash-up of everything.

 

There's a great deal of uniqueness here and if you read the document you'd see that. The overlapping traits with frost witches - and I don't think there are many, seeing as the completely different nature of the creatures (i.e strigae are capable of being infinitely more diverse and heterogeneous in their characters than the same old tower-dwelling, butch, man-hating frost witch archetype, which has been done to death since 2012) - are insignificant enough to raise the question of "What reasonable person actually cares?"

 

Nobody's going to denigrate lore for a new and unique type of wolf because it too closely resembles the server's existing dog population. This isn't much different. If it's your concern, I haven't, nor would I ever plagiarize lore from another source. Every word of the writing in this topic is my own or Matt's. 

 

31 minutes ago, Pess said:

It's not going to be a curse that's spread to people interested like witches do, I feel this will end up as a cult.

 

I'm not following.

 

31 minutes ago, Pess said:

Vampires is something that has been suggested many times before.

 

This is not even a remotely valid point. Because it's been suggested many times before doesn't make it inherently bad - if I didn't think our attempt was infinitely higher in quality than those past suggestions, I wouldn't have posted it. 

 

41 minutes ago, Yuln said:

That's just bullshit. The alterations are 90% to make these copies from the Witcher stronger than frosties. Instead of making them actually different they are stronger versions. If frost witches are already obsolete they should be removed. If they are a strong group that can hold its own that's going to be very hard if there is a stronger version of them around.

 

What?

 

Can you elaborate on this? How on earth are they 'stronger' than frost witches? Not only are they completely different, we expressly wrote many of the weaknesses as worse and more debilitating than those of the Fja - absolutely no magic is a key point here. They have access to teeth and claws, so do you. So do mostly any predator. I can't address your concerns if you're just going to throw me the blanket phrase of 'but they're stronger'. Frankly, I don't think they are. 

 

To your concerns about making a female only clique group obsolete, I laughed. I'm hardly an advocate of equal opportunity when it comes to lore so male frost witches aren't something I particularly want to see - but what do you gain other than smug self-satisfaction from opposing an alternative accessible to male characters? Do you feel simply that with another cannibalistic monster on the loose you'll lose your niche and go extinct? The same could be said of any mage to another magic archetype.  

 

I hate taking this kind of tone with anybody in a public forum, but when they so rudely initiate with it, it's clear there's only one sort of language they understand.

[_mkkk_ 193]

This lore and backstory was extremely well written. I can't imagine insulting or critiquing that in anyway! The combined folklore, cultish origin, and work on the anatomy is great! However, I do have some issues with the lore:
 

1 hour ago, Esterlen said:

player creatures comparable to frost witches

Your statement that they're comparable to frost witches in that they could be for players is great! However, the resemblance between one another is rather high with the longer jagged digits, grey skin, become cold if not catering to their nature, and thirst for blood. I don't think this is meant to knockoff Frost Witch lore in anyway; I just find it uncanny and ironic I guess to say. This isn't my big issue though.

 

5 hours ago, Esterlen said:

• Strigae are endowed with some significant strength relative to their size, though not beyond that of an orcish creature.

• Strigae are able to be very quick and evasive, capable of moving and concealing themselves in the shadows adeptly.

• Strigae may grow long talons for use in combat when enraged, hunting or blood-drunk.

5 hours ago, Esterlen said:

The saliva of a striga contains both anaesthetic and hemophilic chemical agents that numb pain and cause blood to flow easier, clotting less.

From how this reads, one of those beasts could end up holding someone down for a prolonged period of time. And on top of that, they could make their blood flow smoother in order to siphon more blood? That just isn't relatively fair to any victim. With this very evasive nature and the brutally long claws, they shouldn't have strength WHILE also making it easier to drain more blood, ruining the victim's chances at even living if they try to run. Their blood would flow even faster, causing more to spill out, and eventually they'll faint which gives the creature the leisure of walking over to execute them finally. What makes this even worse is that you then say that:
 

5 hours ago, Esterlen said:

Greater strigae are capable of regenerating wounds that would be fatal to mortals very quickly, such as a stab through the heart or a slit throat, unless inflicted upon them by gold or holy magic, in which case such wounds take considerably longer to heal and are able to more easily incapacitate the striga.

You're going a little too far if they can have sizable strength, low claws, and evasive movement and then also be able to recover from wounds that a normal person under the influence of one of these things would most likely aim for. Their bobbing, evasive nature would most likely flail their head around where it'd be impossible to hit! You almost making them a supernatural at this point to where they resemble a werewolf. AND THEN:

 

5 hours ago, Esterlen said:

Greater strigae are unkillable under most circumstances. While their bodies can be totally incapacitated in much the same manner as would a normal humanoid (Rapid dismemberment, beheading) and destroyed through destruction of the brain, ‘death’ in this fashion only serves to destroy the corporeal body and banish the spirit from this plane. With enough time and the aid of another striga’s blood, a greater striga may regenerate a new body, identical to the last.

Then you actually say it for me... I didn't even have to say it. Yes, they are unkillable in almost any situation it seems like. Either because of their unnatural healing rates or because no one has had the blood left to stab them. What you then suggest is that they'll retain their memories after what seems to be their death... you're asking for tons of disputes revolving around metagmaing in what they remember prior to their body that resembles their last and also how their kin will 'casually find them' in order to provide them life once more. I can see why you need this since you want to make sure that they have a chance at living since Cloud Temple Monks can't revive them. However, edit the memory recollection. Maybe to remember their backstory, not their ravenous nature before this and the people who attempted to end the creature.

These are my big issues... your making a super mutant that can't be eliminated basically and has a lot of loop holes back into their existence. You're asking for tons of disputes between these monsters and players, trying to understand how 'that blow or swipe' didn't kill the beast when they were practically incapacitated by the draining blood that's faster than natural, long claws shredding at them, sizable strength to pin them down, and evasive movement to tackle them in the first place. I do want to recognize the weakness of not being able to practice the magic arts. This is a big thing to sacrifice, but that isn't big enough to become this super mutant no one can kill. Tone down the strengths a moderate amount and give more physical weaknesses. 
 

6 minutes ago, Esterlen said:

frost witch lipstick critics

Also, drop the sass please. That's someone's perspective on a part of LOTC that means something to them.
 

[_mkkk_ 193]

7 minutes ago, Yuln said:

The equal opportunity argument does not work at all. Look at the roleplay opportunities that female characters have and compare them to male characters, especially in Oren.

There isn't any room to state this is needed for 'gender equality' in Lotc. If you want to make this a bigger issue than it is, why not we actually request responses from all female players who RPed heavily in Oren. I'm sure they'd like to give you feedback on the oppression and criticism they faced simply due to their gender. Actually, why not gather the feedback on all females from Lotc in order to collect all their feedback on how they were treated among male peers. Males in RP have opportunities that seem to far surpass females. And yes, I do mean the majority of Oren. I'm simply annoyed due to all the other points made about the lore. Not because of the comment regarding gender equality.

[Esterlen 4462]

18 minutes ago, _mkkk_ said:

From how this reads, one of those beasts could end up holding someone down for a prolonged period of time. And on top of that, they could make their blood flow smoother in order to siphon more blood? That just isn't relatively fair to any victim. With this very evasive nature and the brutally long claws, they shouldn't have strength WHILE also making it easier to drain more blood, ruining the victim's chances at even living if they try to run. Their blood would flow even faster, causing more to spill out, and eventually they'll faint which gives the creature the leisure of walking over to execute them finally. What makes this even worse is that you then say that:

 

This was always intended to be a very mild chemical boon - hardly the kind of agent that would leave you bleeding to death and totally unaware of a wound you've suffered. I'm more than happy to tone the wording down or even remove it completely - to me it just made sense as these are adaptations that blood-drinking animals like the vampire bat have developed naturally. I'll edit things immediately to clarify that we're not talking Prince Aleksei Nikolaevich hemophilia here ("Papercut yourself and bleed to death") with the painlessness of modern local anesthetic. 

 

18 minutes ago, _mkkk_ said:

You're going a little too far if they can have sizable strength, low claws, and evasive movement and then also be able to recover from wounds that a normal person under the influence of one of these things would most likely aim for. Their bobbing, evasive nature would most likely flail their head around where it'd be impossible to hit! You almost making them a supernatural at this point to where they resemble a werewolf. AND THEN:

 

I don't care too much for buffing a character up to an unreasonable degree. Strength, to my mind, was never intended to construe anything greater than that of a relatively fit, mortal person for their respective body size - swiftness, agility and 'evasiveness', is the same. Not to any sort of supernatural extent but rather just comparable to that of an athletic, well-rounded person. 

 

As for regeneration and the fatality of wounds - look at things from the lens of a walker from AMC's the Walking Dead. You can only 'kill' a walker by destroying its brain. Other wounds have little to no effect. How much harder to kill does that make a walker than a normal human being? The answer is not much. Of course I'm being facetious and not taking into account variables like a walker's slowness, but the point's still there. 

 

18 minutes ago, _mkkk_ said:

Then you actually say it for me... I didn't even have to say it. Yes, they are unkillable in almost any situation it seems like. Either because of their unnatural healing rates or because no one has had the blood left to stab them. What you then suggest is that they'll retain their memories after what seems to be their death... you're asking for tons of disputes revolving around metagmaing in what they remember prior to their body that resembles their last and also how their kin will 'casually find them' in order to provide them life once more. I can see why you need this since you want to make sure that they have a chance at living since Cloud Temple Monks can't revive them. However, edit the memory recollection. Maybe to remember their backstory, not their ravenous nature before this and the people who attempted to end the creature.

 

No, I agree with what you've said about memory recollection. Truth be told, I didn't even think about that, and it'll be added in post-haste. 'Deaths' in this fashion will be subject to the same restrictions Cloud Temple revivals are, to prevent meta-gaming etc. No recollection for the 30 mins/1 hour (Or whatever it is, I have no idea since I haven't revived myself at a Cloud Temple since 2012) before a death.

[big narstie 1700]

I too have played the witcher 3, otherwise, very cute! I like it!

[Esterlen 4462]

30 minutes ago, Yuln said:

The equal opportunity argument does not work at all. Look at the roleplay opportunities that female characters have and compare them to male characters, especially in Oren.

 

I know it doesn't - which is why I'm not making it in regards to frost witches. Your lore is your lore and you are entitled to restrict that to whatever demographic you so please, in fact I literally said I'm no proponent of equal opportunity semantics, however that aforementioned phrase applies to me and my lore as well. I'm merely questioning why you feel it necessary that a demographic be denied from even the tiniest bit of niche overlap which seems to consist of 'feeds on mortals' on account of your own unrelated lore which does deny it. 

 

29 minutes ago, Pess said:

This is exactly why you should never be someone with a creature this powerful, you lack the complete respect and you just can not refrain from being sassy about it. I had hoped you would one day change and stop your dominant and self absorbed nature. Jokes on me.

 

wow are you seriously still angry about princess vittoria please grow up that was ic and happened legitimately over two years ago now

 

I'll be as abrasive as I want when an argument is introduced to me in an equally abrasive fashion. In my response to _mkkk_'s post, you'll notice I hold no such demeanor. Seems fairly reasonable to me.

 

29 minutes ago, Pess said:

All the responses you have done are simply filled with an aggressive tone so I will not bother with it. I pray this will not see daylight, you're not someone who should truthfully ever be in the dark arts community with your horrendous aggressive personality.

 

With all things you this it has a motive and and hopefully the staff can see how stupid it would be to let such a toxic player get this accepted.

 

"i don't like you so your lore is therefore invalid. you can't have anything to do with my clique" 

 

I'm extremely committed to developing and enriching the server and its lore for the benefit of the entire community and dynamic roleplay as a whole. My own personal interests do not come into this, nor does my personality or my RP history with you of all people. 

 

You err greatly to decry me as evil and toxic merely because I hold an opposing viewpoint to you and moreover because I responded to you in the same aggressive manner you initially attacked me in. As I think SupremacyOps once said, a very long time ago: Don't dish it out if you can't take it. 

 

20 minutes ago, Yuln said:

I sincerely question your view on this issue. Any person who has done a good amount of worldbuilding, writing or game development knows that you shouldn't have multiple things fill the same niche. Any good game or story has unique things that are specific to their niche. That is what makes good lore.

 

I've done a great deal of worldbuilding and writing and I see no issue here. Your uniqueness is not being infringed upon. We share a few theoretical qualities and in my eyes they're completely immaterial and moreover can be compromised to a degree. For cold skin, I wanted a weakness and another 'identifier' that picks out a striga. Blood-drinking is obviously the natural premise of this kind of creature. Shapeshifting in my eyes is of a completely different nature to that of a frost witch. Correct me if I'm wrong, but what's a frost witch's 'bestial' form but that of a slightly bluer, fanged version of their normal form? I don't know why we can't share the niche - hell, you can even have the lion's share of it if you want. That does happen in natural ecosystems, after all. 

[_mkkk_ 193]

I'd like to tell you, Esterlen, thank you for first of all editing the lore bits that I suggested. Your willingness is kind. I still however feel they are overpowered; I don't think there is any relevance comparing them to creatures in other shows or video games since this server, Lotc, is meant to stand alone as unique. Just the initial comment of 'frost witch critics' has started this and I believe it needs to end here, the aggression is building and we need to recognize we're here for the lore. The niche is an extremely small niche is what they're referring to. You're wanting to allow that niche to become extremely powerful, due to their combined attributes. Really my final statement is, make more physical weaknesses and tone down strengths please. 

[Salvo 1831]

somebody liked blood and wine

[zaezae 1097]

You know, you wanna be completely fair? 

 

If I trusted players of LotC more, I honest to god would suggest strigae have charm magic. But we both know that won't ever work lol

[Esterlen 4462]

7 minutes ago, _mkkk_ said:

Really my final statement is, make more physical weaknesses and tone down strengths please. 

 

7 minutes ago, Yuln said:

The Fja get a magic that is only available in very specific situations whereas vampires get massive boosts to their combat abilities. The only way this niche might be shared is if you tone down the power levels of your lore or the Fja get a boost to their magical abilities.

 

The thing is, I think this argument is based on a strawman, a completely false premise. It was never my intent for this lore to come across as giving strigae super-strength or super-speed. 

 

I said in a former post that (Pardon the shitty copy paste): 

 

"I don't care too much for buffing a character up to an unreasonable degree. Strength, to my mind, was never intended to construe anything greater than that of a relatively fit, mortal person for their respective body size - swiftness, agility and 'evasiveness', is the same. Not to any sort of supernatural extent but rather just comparable to that of an athletic, well-rounded person. "

 

To me, that hardly construes a 'massive boost' especially compared to a wide breadth of magical abilities that frost witches have access to. I admittedly have no idea what you mean by 'very specific situations'. 

 

11 minutes ago, Yuln said:

However I still don't think that this is a niche that needs more filling, apart from the amount of copy paste from the Witcher.

 

Stop repeating yourself. You won't find a single part of this document copy-pasted from any Witcher source, except for some nomenclature and some images. I haven't plagiarized a thing, and if you were as well-versed in Witcher lore as you're making out you are you'd recognize that there are ample differences. 

[zaezae 1097]

21 minutes ago, Esterlen said:

To me, that hardly construes a 'massive boost' especially compared to a wide breadth of magical abilities that frost witches have access to. I admittedly have no idea what you mean by 'very specific situations'. 

To clarify, forstie magic is entirely dependent on the environment. Fighting a frostie on top of an ice capped mountain is suicide while fighting a frostie in a desert is an auto-win. Also, unless you allow yourself to be drenched in water, frostie magic can be matched with blades and spears since that's what a lot of the frostie magic can do. Other than fun party tricks like making art with ice. Actually, some frosties do not use their magic (for RP reasons). Frosties can use blades rather than magic, though, they won't have anymore advantage than a normal human. 

 

EDIT: it's not really suicide, but it's like deciding to fight a dwarf in a cobble fortress.

 

 

[Will (TauFirewarrior) 2464]

I do like my holidays in  Sylvania. +1

[Esterlen 4462]

5 minutes ago, Yuln said:

Please don't say that to me, you are also guilty of it yourself.

 

It seems to be necessary since you seem to be ignoring what I'm saying and only hearing what you want to hear. Meanwhile, what you're repeating is something that just blatantly isn't true. I'm inspired by a great many sources Witcher, Warhammer and folklore, but I never copy from them, and to say that I do is insulting. I've used a lot of art from the Witcher in the original topic, yes. But every single sentence of that post is my own writing, or Matt's. I haven't ripped anything off and merely 'changed' a few words as you're putting it. You're doing me a disservice by saying so. 

 

10 minutes ago, Yuln said:

Please tell me, what is the essence of these vampires and what specifically makes them different from Fjarriauga.

 

I don't know why I have to spell this out to you in simple points. Read the document again, in its entirety, read every word of it. Don't just skim over it. And if you still genuinely see nothing 'specifically making them different' from Fjarriauga, then I'll make you a Venn diagram if it'll keep you happy. 

[E__V__O 1984]

I will first say that this is an interesting change to the typical "vampire" niche i've seen and read before with promising aspects towards it. Though i'll give a few points which I believe you need to address.

 

In the lore you state that the "Strigae" (Am I spelling it right?) is irriversable. Which is correct! If it wasn't for the monks. You have 1 week to decide to change back to mortal or not. Reguardless of any curse.

 

Second. How will other dark magics effect this? 

Such as necromancy, you say they're immune to diseases but what about ones magically created?

Also Soul Puppetry, are they non-effected by it? (SP works if they get any type of SUBSTITUTION of blood).

Also would blood magic have an effect on the Strigae?

 

Also Shamanism, elementalism/witch doctor. Will the curses they inflict hurt those cursed with Strigae?

 

I understand holy magic will have to have an effect as they're essentially cursed beings and golden weaponry but I wonder of what other dark magics.

[Luxury 601]

A good read! I've skimmed over the comments; If frost witches and these vampire-esque creatures cannot co-exist on the server, I would much rather see the prior replaced.