[Community Review] Raids

[Helios_ 288]

42 minutes ago, Narthok said:

 

Most up to date incarnation of the proposal accounting for the suggestions of mostly Jaeden, Sky and Leo. Overwhelming community feedback has made it quite apparent that the chests clause is unacceptable and therefore has been removed. Sky's trap suggestions have been added with some clarifications.

 

Tentative Raid Rules Rewrite 0.5

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Section 1.0 Raid Procedure

1.1 To initiate a raid the leader of a raiding party must modreq one hour in advance of the raid

1. The handling GM must then provide a warning regional broadcast to the target. The raid will arrive one hour from the broadcast not from the posting of the modreq.

 

1.2 Raids must be launched from an established base

1. A base being henceforth defined as a Major Freebuild or Nation. You may not launch raids from random freebuild huts or dirt holes. RP cave hideouts are fine but must be of an appropriate scale.

 

1.3 Characters involved in a raid must have demonstrable allegiances

1. One day raid characters will not be tolerated. Your character must be rped to some degree to participate in raids.

 

1.4 Any individual that is downed during the duration of a raid (within the confines of the raided settlement and its immediacy) may be captured even if they are popped or D40. To do so make a modreq while providing a screencap of the individual being downed, ideally accompanied by a timestamp.

1. If someone is executed or bleeds out during the raid they may not be captured / tped back.

 

1.5 Any individual that is downed during the duration of the raid (within the confines of the raided settlement and its immediacy) may have their head or body taken without consent.

1. NPCS may be made of an individual to represent them having been executed. Or a head can be requested of a moderator without the need for player consent.

2. The victim who’s body or head has been taken must be alerted.

 

1.6 Launching a raid negates any raid cooldowns you have immediately. You are fully vulnerable to being raided.

 

1.7 A raid will last for an hour after it begins as defined above. After an hour raiders shall be removed from the city and given a victory.

 

Section 2.0 Raid Mechanics

2.1 A raid ‘begins’ formally once the raiding party enters the region of the targeted settlement. Or for freebuild settlements, are within 50 blocks of the outermost wall or structure of said settlement.

1. Once the raid has begun the supervising moderator will alert both sides that PvP is now ‘on’. PvP remains ‘on’ until the moderator specifically alerts the leadership of the offensive and defensive party.

2. The supervising moderator must alert both sides as to the statuses of the opposing side to minimize confusion.

 

2.2 Ladders must be placed vertically, in a continuous realistic fashion.

1. In a regioned area your supervising moderator will place the ladders for you

2. In a freebuild area you may place the ladders yourself

   1. Troll ladder placements will be met with a blacklist.

 

2.3 Battering Rams may be purchased at the Cloud Temple for (20000 minas for heavy or 10000 for light).The Ram comes in the heavy (with arrow shield) or light (without shield) variants.

1. A Battering Ram must be deployed at a gate

   1. A gate is henceforth defined as an entry point to a settlement generally formed in an arch a minimum of three blocks high and two wide. The gate is formed of iron bars or any variety of wooden fencing.

   2. In the absence of  a ‘gate’ any ‘citizen’s door’ may replace the ‘gate’.

2. The Battering Ram must be operated by punching the sign on the back of the Ram. (resembling the existing trebuchet sign)

3. For the defenders to disable the Ram they must break the 5 iron blocks at the core of the ram.

   1. All the iron blocks in the core must be mined out to disable the ram.

   2. The Ram may not be repaired by replacing iron blocks. You may not replace the iron blocks that were mined nor may you place new iron blocks. Once an iron block has been removed from the Ram it may not be repaired period.

 

2.4 Raiders may attempt to remove anti ladder buttons. They must provide the appropriate emote, while supervised by the supervising Moderator. A roll of ten will break a button. A raid party may roll ten times.

 

2.5 You cannot construct "Instant" Death Traps.
-"Instant" being traps that lock you into place and kill you without any interaction.

1. Traps which cause more than five hearts of damage are prohibited.
   -All traps are required to give the trapped individual the ability to escape, including utilizing the lockpick plugin.
   --Pathways of escape cannot be able to be blocked off.
   -Lava, and magma blocks are prohibited within any trap.
   -During PvP instances trap interactions do not require emotes.
   -Outside of PvP instances trap interactions must be emoted.

 

Section 3.0 Types of Raids

3.1 The Offensive Raid, the first type of raid, this raid is the basic raid conducted by aggressors.

 

3.2 The Retaliatory Raid, should the defending party succeed in repulsing the aggressors they may choose to retaliate.

1. A retaliatory raid must be launched within an hour of victory being declared (by the GM via broadcast) and requires a modreq.

2. A retaliatory raid may not be retaliated for the sake of not having endless fringe tier raid cycles.

3. Retaliatory raids will ignore cooldowns.

 

3.3 The Rescue Raid, for the purposes of simplicity the rescue raid will act like a retaliatory raid.

1. The faction launching the rescue raid must demonstrate rp knowledge of a kidnapping.

2. A kidnapping is where an individual was actually captured not someone that wandered into the settlement and bothered the guards.

 

Section 4.0 Cooldowns and Caps

4.1 There is no limit on numbers for any offensive or defensive raid action.

 

4.2 If the aggressors are victorious the settlement’s raid cooldown shall be Forty Eight Hours from the beginning of the raid.

 

4.3 If the defenders are victorious the settlement’s raid cooldown shall be Fourteen Days from the day of the raid.

 

4.5 If the defenders are victorious in both repulsing the first raid and in the retaliatory raid then the settlement’s raid cooldown shall be Twenty One Days.

 

Section 5.0 Preemptive Defining of Terms and Clarifying of Blurred Lines

5.1 A raid is defined as a hostile action committed by an organized group, launched from a point of origin.

1. To secure the benefits and such of a raid the above definition must be fulfilled and overseen by a Moderator.

 

5.2 Defenders are victorious if they hold off the raiders for one hour. Victors are victorious if they defeat all the defenders or force them to flee or hide.

 

5.3 A group of Villains operating within the walls or the immediate surroundings (50 blocks from the walls) will be considered an illegal raid if their numbers exceed four.

1. All instigators of illegal raiding shall be Villainy Blacklisted. The leader / high ranking of the party shall receive a double sentence.

 

5.4 You may not instigate a raid if there are fewer than four people in the city at the time of the GM going to broadcast.

1. To clarify when the GM accepts the modreq and goes to perform the warning broadcast if there are less than three people within the city then the raid may not be performed.

2. (This is to prevent cheesy middle of the night raids wherein you take all their pixels while they are asleep.)

 

5.5 Gatehouses and Anklebiters are not traps.

What’s the point in adding all of these confusing rules and regulations and tweaks that are all overall just adding OOC barriers. KEEP THINGS SIMPLE AND THINGS WILL BE SIMPLE FOR BOTH THE PLAYERBASE AND GM TEAM. Back during the fringe and athera times both sides were having fun with huge raids and skirmishes and of course some people were getting mad but many used that anger to raise up a force to attack in return or raise up a stronger guard force to defend their city. Athera times were a whole lot simpler and hell RP was even better than it is now but of course people have to use the guise of “oh its the troll rp grr heavily force rules upon anyone that wants to engage in pvp.” Troll rp is bad and hell i might’ve memed a couple times here and there, but to target raid rules is not the solution to ending memeing in rp and thats what it seems a lot of people are getting at. A modreq, ban report and recognition amongst nation leaders to get their people to cut the **** should be sufficient enough to get people to stop.

 

The gm team needs to recognize that PVP raiding is a very important part to the server and its what makes very many people pretty damn active or at least it did. Not now of course as a pretty large chunk peaced out. You guys are aiming to kill activity by making these OOC barriers to a system that removes a cancerous X vs X RP battle and adds a lot of weight behind military RP. But these rules and restrictions are whats killing it and it makes things difficult for the people that want to participate in combat want to stay on the server. RP is the main reason people come to the server yea but the PVP is what makes people work together to go toe to toe against eachother to make a competitive scene and PVP is the reason the server has at many times gone over 200+ people at a time. 

 

I just ask everyone to think back at the good ole times and ‘member yea? And now look at now, this ******* sucks booty. 

 

[Narthok 10416]

4 minutes ago, Helios_ said:

What’s the point in adding all of these confusing rules and regulations and tweaks that are all overall just adding OOC barriers. KEEP THINGS SIMPLE AND THINGS WILL BE SIMPLE FOR BOTH THE PLAYERBASE AND GM TEAM. Back during the fringe and athera times both sides were having fun with huge raids and skirmishes and of course some people were getting mad but many used that anger to raise up a force to attack in return or raise up a stronger guard force to defend their city. Athera times were a whole lot simpler and hell RP was even better than it is now but of course people have to use the guise of “oh its the troll rp grr heavily force rules upon anyone that wants to engage in pvp.” Troll rp is bad and hell i might’ve memed a couple times here and there, but to target raid rules is not the solution to ending memeing in rp and thats what it seems a lot of people are getting at. A modreq, ban report and recognition amongst nation leaders to get their people to cut the **** should be sufficient enough to get people to stop.

 

The gm team needs to recognize that PVP raiding is a very important part to the server and its what makes very many people pretty damn active or at least it did. Not now of course as a pretty large chunk peaced out. You guys are aiming to kill activity by making these OOC barriers to a system that removes a cancerous X vs X RP battle and adds a lot of weight behind military RP. But these rules and restrictions are whats killing it and it makes things difficult for the people that want to participate in combat want to stay on the server. RP is the main reason people come to the server yea but the PVP is what makes people work together to go toe to toe against eachother to make a competitive scene and PVP is the reason the server has at many times gone over 200+ people at a time. 

 

I just ask everyone to think back at the good ole times and ‘member yea? And now look at now, this ******* sucks booty. 

 

 

I'd love to go back to fringe / athera tier raids. But its not feasible. This new incarnation of rules removes a large amounts of restrictions from raiders and attempts to compromise, catering to both c rpers and mechanical rpers in turn. That being said there is an absolute undeniable fact that a large swathe of the raiding community at least nowadays memes and doesn't really respect other people's experiences. I am of the opinion that the biggest thing that contributes to the toxicity and general unpleasantness amongst the pvp community is raid caps. So I'd like them to be removed. But its not fair to c rpers if we just entirely axe everything and let them be raided to death which would almost certainly happen especially with the amount of anti dominion sentiment. When making rules it is not fair or realistic to cater to one side of the community which is why these rules might be met with so much scepticism initially. A good compromise has everyone leaving the table bothered. But in my eyes its better to have that than to cater exclusively to one side of the server and alienate the entire other side f the playerbase.

 

In making these rules my overarching desire was to make raiding something interesting and engaging rather than something that is just used to piss off and bother a playerbase. Perhaps I've failed in trying to make raids interesting or atleast palatable to both sides via the systems and incentives suggested. But that was my intent. 

 

TLDR realistic progress is far more valuable to me over mindless reeing and rose tinted goggles. Both sides of the argument need to be accounted for and sated with this kind of thing. 

5 hours ago, NotEvilAtAll said:

So you're saying that the silent majority stands with having every raid act like a mini-warclaim with looting of the chests of people who might not even be online to protect their gear?

we've axed the chest looting 

[Helios_ 288]

54 minutes ago, Narthok said:

I'd love to go back to fringe / athera tier raids. But its not feasible. This new incarnation of rules removes a large amounts of restrictions from raiders and attempts to compromise, catering to both c rpers and mechanical rpers in turn. That being said there is an absolute undeniable fact that a large swathe of the raiding community at least nowadays memes and doesn't really respect other people's experiences. I am of the opinion that the biggest thing that contributes to the toxicity and general unpleasantness amongst the pvp community is raid caps. So I'd like them to be removed. But its not fair to c rpers if we just entirely axe everything and let them be raided to death which would almost certainly happen especially with the amount of anti dominion sentiment. When making rules it is not fair or realistic to cater to one side of the community which is why these rules might be met with so much scepticism initially. A good compromise has everyone leaving the table bothered. But in my eyes its better to have that than to cater exclusively to one side of the server and alienate the entire other side f the playerbase.

 

In making these rules my overarching desire was to make raiding something interesting and engaging rather than something that is just used to piss off and bother a playerbase. Perhaps I've failed in trying to make raids interesting or atleast palatable to both sides via the systems and incentives suggested. But that was my intent. 

 

TLDR realistic progress is far more valuable to me over mindless reeing and rose tinted goggles. Both sides of the argument need to be accounted for and sated with this kind of thing. 

we've axed the chest looting 

Im sorry but c rpers still went on about their lives even without all of this, all that really needs to be done to protect themselves is make high walls and a good gate or raise a good guard force. And to make assumptions that the vast majority of raiders are memers and trollers is pretty rough and to make all of these rules you’re just protecting people through OOC methods when things should really be settled through RP with little OOC rule involvement if you want things to go smoothly. Raid cooldowns should be enough as is when it comes to raids and ban reports and modreq’s should be made to stop troll rp, not targeting a whole playerbase and claiming you’re protecting another when in reality you are just harming one.

[Enlightenment 2295]

12 hours ago, Jaeden said:

>new rules are suggested

>"MUST BE THE ELVES"

get out please

 

--

Anyway, I'll do another post later tonight regarding the tentative rules proposed. I might also toss up some additional suggestions. Good work so far though @Narthok. I'll have a proper gander after my exam.

I mean, am I wrong? I've seen most of the complaints come from the elven community.

[Narthok 10416]

Just now, Enlightenment said:

I mean, am I wrong? I've seen most of the complaints come from the elven community.

tbf the most criticism is coming from elf players. Clearly they don't feel that the rules cater to them.

[H7R5 55]

16 hours ago, Helios_ said:

Im sorry but c rpers still went on about their lives even without all of this, all that really needs to be done to protect themselves is make high walls and a good gate or raise a good guard force. And to make assumptions that the vast majority of raiders are memers and trollers is pretty rough and to make all of these rules you’re just protecting people through OOC methods when things should really be settled through RP with little OOC rule involvement if you want things to go smoothly. Raid cooldowns should be enough as is when it comes to raids and ban reports and modreq’s should be made to stop troll rp, not targeting a whole playerbase and claiming you’re protecting another when in reality you are just harming one.

It's not gonna happen overnight. Accept progress. This is already a big change which is why it's making people sweat, but we're never gonna make progress if we want everything done overnight. People will only recognize how god awful the current system is once it's gone.

[Christ 939]

Truthfully, I hate seeing half of the peoples opinions on this. The people that don't like raids complain that there is battering rams and that's why they have huge ass walls and multi-layered gates. Truth be told i'm going to depict the raid rules from the perspective of a logical point instead of somebody trying to avoid roleplay. 

 

1.1 To initiate a raid the leader of a raiding party must modreq one hour in advance of the raid

Okay, so the reason why I feel this is horrible is because the reason why groups would raid at lower peak times, i.e 7 players on is because of the fact that it would be a more even numbered fight. I find the fact that to give a nation an hour warning so they can both levi enough is idiotic. If a smaller group is raiding a nation when it's at a number of 12 guards on or something. Evidently nation still has the advantage, so they should deserve another hour in advance? No, this rule I feel was to put in place for the complaints of meta-rallying constantly. 

 

1.3 Characters involved in a raid must have demonstrable allegiances
A levi is a levi, I feel that if I can miraculously find a couple people who are willing to fight because they enjoy it for no pay, I feel that should be allowed. I don't feel that I should have to explain the fact that they are simply people in lotc who wish for pvp. Now i'm not saying it's a horrible rule, but I would prefer it not to be there, although I could put up with it over some other rules

 

1.4 Any individual that is downed during the duration of a raid (within the confines of the raided settlement and its immediacy) may be captured even if they are popped or D40.
As I saw in the earlier comments which I Heavily agreed with, somebody stated that if you decide to pop them then they shouldn't be tped back. I feel as if they either /d40 or they run out of time they should. Due to the fact that as I've experienced if you pick somebody up in a raid, they instantly swing. Rules against it or not. So I feel that rule doesn't really give good clarification. Although half of it would work well.

 

1.5 Any individual that is downed during the duration of the raid (within the confines of the raided settlement and its immediacy) may have their head or body taken without consent.

This is a good rule and I don't see the reason for nonpvpers to complain, you guys just don't want the raiders to get the satisfaction of raiding you. You feel if they have your head then it should be because you pk, I say no. If I kill you constantly during raids, and you choose not to pk, I shouldn't need your consent. I don't feel you should dictate it.

 

1.6 Launching a raid negates any raid cooldowns you have immediately. You are fully vulnerable to being raided.

Finally! All those small settlements hiding behind the raid cooldown, it made me quite mad they could attack but we couldn't counter because we either raided them 4 days ago or somebody else did.

 

2.3 Battering Rams may be purchased at the Cloud Temple for (20000 minas for heavy or 10000 for light).
Okay, One, everybody saying that you could easily round up 20,000 minas for a raid with some others, no. Imagine how many gates there are, imagine how often you raid and imagine how easy they break. Battering rams Help the attackers because defenders just hide in there gates the whole time, using the excuse that they don't like to pvp, but then complain when we find a way in through badly built walls. Although with badly built walls comes the issue of people stacking there walls higher. I don't know if battering rams is the way to go, but I don't feel that people should just be able to hide because they are oocly triggered from pvp.

 

2.5 You cannot construct "Instant" Death Traps.

I like this rule, along with the sub categories, I like how it basically states the limitations to a pvp built trap, I don't feel people should be able to put you in a 1 by 1 and crit you out. This rule is a perfect add-on and I feel we should add it to the normal rules since we didn't have defined 

 

4.1 There is no limit on numbers for any offensive or defensive raid action.

I mean, I do like cap raids but I can understand where the non-pvpers are coming from. I feel we should raise the cap but not get rid of the cap, due to the fact that defenders can rally as much as they please but attackers can rally 10. Maybe bump it up to a common rally number.

 

4.2 If the aggressors are victorious the settlement’s raid cooldown shall be Forty Eight Hours from the beginning of the raid.
I say That's an amazing rule because for smaller settlements it proves whether it breaks you or makes you, it limits people from all wanting to do freebuild and it also stacks against nations that do not have the means of power to protect themselves. I don't think you should be able to hide behind a wall because you can't protect yourself, if anything I think it should be more common for you to raid them, as it allows us do.

 

4.3 If the defenders are victorious the settlement’s raid cooldown shall be Fourteen Days from the day of the raid.

AYEEEEEEEE CARAMBA! So if you can defend a 10 man raid as a nation you get a whole two weeks of safety. I don't think so, the most you should get is at max the same cap or a little smaller like 4 days. 

 

I felt that's a good way to break it down, if anybody wishes to debate just respond.

 

 

 

[zaezae 1098]

Quote

 I don't feel that I should have to explain the fact that they are simply people in lotc who wish for pvp.

Hopefully, this means we can get over this persistent meme that raids are all about the dynamic rp baby.

 

Because they aren't and I think everybody kinda knows it. 

[Narthok 10416]

48 minutes ago, zaezae said:

Hopefully, this means we can get over this persistent meme that raids are all about the dynamic rp baby.

 

Because they aren't and I think everybody kinda knows it. 

They are, they have been, they can be and they will be. There are certainly people on lotc just for the pvp. But fixing raid culture is a prolongued effor that must also be met with fixing crp culture to stop looking down their nose at everything. 

 

36 minutes ago, Jaeden said:

 

Yes, you're wrong. Elven players aren't 'complaining over their incompetence and weakness to deal with raiders', our playerbase wasn't even aware of this rendition of raid rules being proposed. So get your cliche 'grr elves grr' out of this good christian feedback thread.

Elves main complaint in our data collection was that there was no way to genuinely punish raiders. This ruleset has tried to account for and fix that issue. 

[Narthok 10416]

1 hour ago, Chromie said:

Truthfully, I hate seeing half of the peoples opinions on this. The people that don't like raids complain that there is battering rams and that's why they have huge ass walls and multi-layered gates. Truth be told i'm going to depict the raid rules from the perspective of a logical point instead of somebody trying to avoid roleplay. 

 

1.1 To initiate a raid the leader of a raiding party must modreq one hour in advance of the raid

Okay, so the reason why I feel this is horrible is because the reason why groups would raid at lower peak times, i.e 7 players on is because of the fact that it would be a more even numbered fight. I find the fact that to give a nation an hour warning so they can both levi enough is idiotic. If a smaller group is raiding a nation when it's at a number of 12 guards on or something. Evidently nation still has the advantage, so they should deserve another hour in advance? No, this rule I feel was to put in place for the complaints of meta-rallying constantly. 

 

1.3 Characters involved in a raid must have demonstrable allegiances
A levi is a levi, I feel that if I can miraculously find a couple people who are willing to fight because they enjoy it for no pay, I feel that should be allowed. I don't feel that I should have to explain the fact that they are simply people in lotc who wish for pvp. Now i'm not saying it's a horrible rule, but I would prefer it not to be there, although I could put up with it over some other rules

 

1.4 Any individual that is downed during the duration of a raid (within the confines of the raided settlement and its immediacy) may be captured even if they are popped or D40.
As I saw in the earlier comments which I Heavily agreed with, somebody stated that if you decide to pop them then they shouldn't be tped back. I feel as if they either /d40 or they run out of time they should. Due to the fact that as I've experienced if you pick somebody up in a raid, they instantly swing. Rules against it or not. So I feel that rule doesn't really give good clarification. Although half of it would work well.

 

1.5 Any individual that is downed during the duration of the raid (within the confines of the raided settlement and its immediacy) may have their head or body taken without consent.

This is a good rule and I don't see the reason for nonpvpers to complain, you guys just don't want the raiders to get the satisfaction of raiding you. You feel if they have your head then it should be because you pk, I say no. If I kill you constantly during raids, and you choose not to pk, I shouldn't need your consent. I don't feel you should dictate it.

 

1.6 Launching a raid negates any raid cooldowns you have immediately. You are fully vulnerable to being raided.

Finally! All those small settlements hiding behind the raid cooldown, it made me quite mad they could attack but we couldn't counter because we either raided them 4 days ago or somebody else did.

 

2.3 Battering Rams may be purchased at the Cloud Temple for (20000 minas for heavy or 10000 for light).
Okay, One, everybody saying that you could easily round up 20,000 minas for a raid with some others, no. Imagine how many gates there are, imagine how often you raid and imagine how easy they break. Battering rams Help the attackers because defenders just hide in there gates the whole time, using the excuse that they don't like to pvp, but then complain when we find a way in through badly built walls. Although with badly built walls comes the issue of people stacking there walls higher. I don't know if battering rams is the way to go, but I don't feel that people should just be able to hide because they are oocly triggered from pvp.

 

2.5 You cannot construct "Instant" Death Traps.

I like this rule, along with the sub categories, I like how it basically states the limitations to a pvp built trap, I don't feel people should be able to put you in a 1 by 1 and crit you out. This rule is a perfect add-on and I feel we should add it to the normal rules since we didn't have defined 

 

4.1 There is no limit on numbers for any offensive or defensive raid action.

I mean, I do like cap raids but I can understand where the non-pvpers are coming from. I feel we should raise the cap but not get rid of the cap, due to the fact that defenders can rally as much as they please but attackers can rally 10. Maybe bump it up to a common rally number.

 

4.2 If the aggressors are victorious the settlement’s raid cooldown shall be Forty Eight Hours from the beginning of the raid.
I say That's an amazing rule because for smaller settlements it proves whether it breaks you or makes you, it limits people from all wanting to do freebuild and it also stacks against nations that do not have the means of power to protect themselves. I don't think you should be able to hide behind a wall because you can't protect yourself, if anything I think it should be more common for you to raid them, as it allows us do.

 

4.3 If the defenders are victorious the settlement’s raid cooldown shall be Fourteen Days from the day of the raid.

AYEEEEEEEE CARAMBA! So if you can defend a 10 man raid as a nation you get a whole two weeks of safety. I don't think so, the most you should get is at max the same cap or a little smaller like 4 days. 

 

I felt that's a good way to break it down, if anybody wishes to debate just respond.

 

 

 

1.1 I am currently pro 1 hour warning because I hate seeing folks roll into an unprepared town and nuke the activity for the rest of the night. In my eyes it is preferable to have a large scale interaction that involves a higher number of people than to just cheese some crpers on trackpads. We can say that raids should be a surprise but generally settlements had some knowledge of an incoming raid with few historical exceptions. Even the anglo saxon settlements during the viking era were very quickly developed into the Burgh system by Alfred the great to counteract the viking raids and exist in a state of constant readiness.TLDR the value added from settlements being given the opportunity to properly defend themselves and have a wide range of their players engage in content is more valuable than flash raids in my eyes. That being said if you had an idea for a more stealthy raid I'd be more than happy to look it over and consider adding it to what is being developed in this thread. 

 

1.3 this rule is mostly to prevent 1 day alts and personas that have literally never roleplayed yet are taking part in combat. If you're being hired for coin or a promise of wealth I really don't care so long as your char has some ambition or compelling reason to be involved in the,

 

1.4 already amended baybi

 

1.5 yeet

 

1.6 yeet again if you want to be aggressive you need to be okay with getting raided in return.

 

2.3 I want to beta test how rams effect raids to be honest I think they'd be a really interesting dynamic that would spice things up

 

2.5 MC traps are just too strong to not regulate them to be fair to all sides. We've had 20 v 160 wins before because of this issue. 

 

4.1 caps are bad and I'd like to try raids without them, I feel they alienate new players because they force a group to take only the best pvpers. They also force you to cheese and feneggle with the rules and be as abusive as possible of the pvp meta. As these were the only historical ways to win. The lower the raid cap is the more unhealthy raids and such culture get as a result. 

 

4.2 people don't like freebuild when the real issue is the inability for other groups to have any agency to deal with freebuild border kingdoms so they end up getting very frustrated. This is a step in the right direction for that. In addition I view raids as the building blocks upon which a good war is developed and conducted. If wars are to be improved raids should come first. 

 

4.3 again you really shouldn't be raiding a place like the dominion or sutica with ten men. Raid places that are appropriate and winnable with ten men or rally more with alliances and deals. Rp solutions > ooc regulations.

[Helios_ 288]

2 hours ago, H7R5 said:

It's not gonna happen overnight. Accept progress. This is already a big change which is why it's making people sweat, but we're never gonna make progress if we want everything done overnight. People will only recognize how god awful the current system is once it's gone.

I can gaurentee you that there’ll be changes again and again. I will never support a huge overhaul of OOC barriers that protect people because they want to RP in a bubble where there is very limited conflict when in reality its a medieval setting and there’s bound to be conflict all the time. 

[WuHanXianShi14 0]

@Narthok how many people need to tell you to reimplement a cap on raiders before you do it?

[Enlightenment 2295]

4 hours ago, Jaeden said:

 

Yes, you're wrong. Elven players aren't 'complaining over their incompetence and weakness to deal with raiders', our playerbase wasn't even aware of this rendition of raid rules being proposed. So get your cliche 'grr elves grr' out of this good christian feedback thread.

So they don't care about their incompetence and weakness? This is the core of the problem, you elves aren't willing to mount a proper defense against raids.

[WuHanXianShi14 0]

8 hours ago, Narthok said:

tbf the most criticism is coming from elf players. Clearly they don't feel that the rules cater to them.

Yeah, we're a hivemind and all think the same, and since everyone who disagrees with you plays the same mineman race (They dont, by the way) in one playerbase (actually, people from at least 5+ playerbases have spoken out) their opinions should be considered just one single entity instead of a collection of individuals

[Narthok 10416]

3 minutes ago, WuHanXianShi14 said:

@Narthok how many people need to tell you to reimplement a cap on raiders before you do it?

Just now, WuHanXianShi14 said:

Yeah, we're a hivemind and all think the same, and since everyone who disagrees with you plays the same mineman race (They dont, by the way) in one playerbase (actually, people from at least 5+ playerbases have spoken out) their opinions should be considered just one single entity instead of a collection of individuals

I don't understand why you feel attacked by my statement. The leader of the dominion has expressed interest in at the very least trying the rules. Those portions that have been met with overwhelming negative responses have been removed. The looting of chests is entirely gone for example. I understand your love of the status quo but a ruleset cannot cater exclusively to one side of the ideological divide on lotc. I feel that this ruleset gives defenders very nice incentives to actively rally and defend against a raid rather than being raided every 5 days and having the activity of your entire city wiped.