[Community Review] Raids

[Narthok 10416]

Axing chest rules, there is no reasonable compromise to be had here and the rp generated from the looting would not outweight the rp generated by the use of those items. 

[WuHanXianShi14 0]

3 minutes ago, H7R5 said:

Another thing that I think is odd is that people think that raiders want to raid their factions for no reason or just to bully them. If there is no benefit to raiding you, no armor, no wealth and no political motive, then you will not be raided...

Objectively untrue. Plenty of groups both modern and in the past on LOTC who look for people to raid for the sake of raiding.

 

3 minutes ago, Narthok said:

Axing chest rules, there is no reasonable compromise to be had here and the rp generated from the looting would not outweight the rp generated by the use of those items. 

Great, now implement a player cap for raiders, maintain a consistent cooldown that isnt determined by who wins and loses, and remove siege equipment.

[H7R5 55]

Just now, WuHanXianShi14 said:

Objectively untrue. Plenty of groups both modern and in the past on LOTC who look for people to raid for the sake of raiding.

Yikes untrue. Don't give people a reason to raid you and they will not raid you. The reason why raids on LoTC are so fun in the first place is the purpose behind it, if this wasn't true then these people would be playing on faction servers where there are no rules.

[Jasonhz 58]

 

 

9 minutes ago, Quavinir_Twiceborn said:

They died. Gone, forever, gone 

for good. Given that death bears little to no meaning on

Lord of The Craft, raiders risk little to nothing, whilst the

defenders are risking literally everything they own.

  How about giving a sort of... short, and temporary blacklist for those who have lost a raid in PvP? Could be a week, or the duration of the CD, or something like you can't raid that settlement again for a week, or something else.

  How about just make heists part of raids under the condition that these raids are done IRP.  If the attackers + defenders currently in the city = 10+, then the raiders can't declare RP and can't take stuff from chests. Then, 'RP' would be needed to steal those 'RP Items', which would make up for the RP potentially lost.

  I mean, if all comes down to if those pixels are useful or not, and how much you want those pixels. Pixels. Pixels. Pixels. Mineman Pixels.

 

Keep in mind everything I say are just core concepts. There might be flaws, but you know, staff team can edit them to make them not flawed.

 

[Narthok 10416]

Current version that accounts for suggestions by Jaeden and Leo and removes chest looting.

 

Tentative Raid Rules Rewrite 0.2

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Section 1.0 Raid Procedure

1.1 To initiate a raid the leader of a raiding party must modreq one hour in advance of the raid

1. The handling GM must then provide a warning regional broadcast to the target. The raid will arrive one hour from the broadcast not from the posting of the modreq.

 

1.2 Raids must be launched from an established base

1. A base being henceforth defined as a Major Freebuild or Nation. You may not launch raids from random freebuild huts or dirt holes. RP cave hideouts are fine but must be of an appropriate scale.

 

1.3 Characters involved in a raid must have demonstrable allegiances

1. One day raid characters will not be tolerated. Your character must be rped to some degree to participate in raids.

 

1.4 Any individual that is downed during the duration of a raid (within the confines of the raided settlement and its immediacy) may be captured even if they are popped or D40. To do so make a modreq while providing a screencap of the individual being downed, ideally accompanied by a timestamp.

1. Captives may roll to break their bonds. A captive is permitted 3 tries but must do so with the supervision of a Moderator. Bonds of any kind will be broken on a roll of 15+.

2. If someone is executed or bleeds out during the raid they may not be captured / tped back.

 

1.5 Any individual that is downed during the duration of the raid (within the confines of the raided settlement and its immediacy) may have their head or body taken without consent.

1. NPCS may be made of an individual to represent them having been executed. Or a head can be requested of a moderator without the need for player consent.

2. The victim who’s body or head has been taken must be alerted.

 

1.6 Launching a raid negates any raid cooldowns you have immediately. You are fully vulnerable to being raided.

 

1.7 A raid will last for an hour after it begins as defined above. After an hour raiders shall be removed from the city and given a victory.

 

Section 2.0 Raid Mechanics

2.1 A raid ‘begins’ formally once the raiding party enters the region of the targeted settlement. Or for freebuild settlements, are within 50 blocks of the outermost wall or structure of said settlement.

 

Once the raid has begun the supervising moderator will alert both sides that PvP is now ‘on’. PvP remains ‘on’ until the moderator specifically alerts the leadership of the offensive and defensive party.

1. The supervising moderator must alert both sides as to the statuses of the opposing side to minimize confusion.

 

2.2 Ladders must be placed vertically, in a continuous realistic fashion.

1. In a regioned area your supervising moderator will place the ladders for you

2. In a freebuild area you may place the ladders yourself

   1. Troll ladder placements will be met with a blacklist.

 

2.3 Battering Rams may be purchased at the Cloud Temple for (20000 minas for heavy or 10000 for light).The Ram comes in the heavy (with arrow shield) or light (without shield) variants.

1. A Battering Ram must be deployed at a gate

   1. A gate is henceforth defined as an entry point to a settlement generally formed in an arch a minimum of three blocks high and two wide. The gate is formed of iron bars or any variety of wooden fencing.

   2. In the absence of  a ‘gate’ any ‘citizen’s door’ may replace the ‘gate’.

2. The Battering Ram must be operated by punching the sign on the back of the Ram. (resembling the existing trebuchet sign)

3. For the defenders to disable the Ram they must break the 5 iron blocks at the core of the ram.

   1. All the iron blocks in the core must be mined out to disable the ram.

   2. The Ram may not be repaired by replacing iron blocks. You may not replace the iron blocks that were mined nor may you place new iron blocks. Once an iron block has been removed from the Ram it may not be repaired period.

 

2.4 Raiders may attempt to remove anti ladder buttons. They must provide the appropriate emote, while supervised by the supervising Moderator. A roll of ten will break a button. A raid party may roll ten times.

 

Section 3.0 Types of Raids

3.1 The Offensive Raid, the first type of raid, this raid is the basic raid conducted by aggressors.

 

3.2 The Retaliatory Raid, should the defending party succeed in repulsing the aggressors they may choose to retaliate.

1. A retaliatory raid must be launched within an hour of victory being declared (by the GM via broadcast) and requires a modreq.

2. A retaliatory raid may not be retaliated for the sake of not having endless fringe tier raid cycles.

3. Retaliatory raids will ignore cooldowns.

 

3.3 The Rescue Raid, for the purposes of simplicity the rescue raid will act like a retaliatory raid.

1. The faction launching the rescue raid must demonstrate rp knowledge of a kidnapping.

2. A kidnapping is where an individual was actually captured not someone that wandered into the settlement and bothered the guards.

 

Section 4.0 Cooldowns and Caps

4.1 There is no limit on numbers for any offensive or defensive raid action.

 

4.2 If the aggressors are victorious the settlement’s raid cooldown shall be Forty Eight Hours from the beginning of the raid.

 

4.3 If the defenders are victorious the settlement’s raid cooldown shall be Fourteen Days from the day of the raid.

 

4.5 If the defenders are victorious in both repulsing the first raid and in the retaliatory raid then the settlement’s raid cooldown shall be Twenty One Days.

 

Section 5.0 Preemptive Defining of Terms and Clarifying of Blurred Lines

5.1 A raid is defined as a hostile action committed by an organized group, launched from a point of origin.

1. To secure the benefits and such of a raid the above definition must be fulfilled and overseen by a Moderator.

 

5.2 Defenders are victorious if they hold off the raiders for one hour. Victors are victorious if they defeat all the defenders or force them to flee or hide.

 

5.3 A group of Villains operating within the walls or the immediate surroundings (50 blocks from the walls) will be considered an illegal raid if their numbers exceed four.

1. All instigators of illegal raiding shall be Villainy Blacklisted. The leader / high ranking of the party shall receive a double sentence.

 

5.4 You may not instigate a raid if there are fewer than four people in the city at the time of the GM going to broadcast.

1. To clarify when the GM accepts the modreq and goes to perform the warning broadcast if there are less than three people within the city then the raid may not be performed.

2. (This is to prevent cheesy middle of the night raids wherein you take all their pixels while they are asleep.)

 

[HortonHeardAWho 243]

Skygod rules are super ultra mega stupid

[Islamadon 9158]

Between the chest popping, head taking, the massive cool-downs and 1 hour notification to GMs, I can safely say these rules are p dumb

Edit since Narthok posted right as I did: The cooldowns are still stupid and this system seems abusable.

[Narthok 10416]

27 minutes ago, Quavinir_Twiceborn said:

I am someone that openly despises pvp in general.

This extends to warclaims but this isnt what we're

here for so I'll leave that comment there for when 

people ask 'what about warclaims'. I am exceptionally

worried about the idea of raiders having free reign to 

loot and pillage people's items as they see fit. This can

be exceptionally problematic in my opinion, for one to

have their items stored safely, log back on, and be

entirely cleared out due to a raid that happened while

they were off. Worse yet, the raid rule requiring 3

people in the invaded territory is crazy, and is very

liable to abuse. Who is to say the enemy just has 4

friends go ahead and sit in the opposing city so they

can raid and pillage them?  How would this be averted?

 

Having people have free reign to pillage and loot, for

argueably dubious reasons is exceptionally worrying to

me. 

 

The claim of realism of having one's item lost in a

real life viking raid is undercut by the lack of loss on

the opposition's side for their immediate loss.  If a

viking lost in a raid-... They died. Gone, forever, gone 

for good. Given that death bears little to no meaning on

Lord of The Craft, raiders risk little to nothing, whilst the

defenders are risking literally everything they own. Which

as someone whom despises PVP, and wishes they would never

have to partake in such, I dont like having everything my

character owns be at risk, with the deciding factor being how 

good me, or my immediate companions are at PVP.  

 

Call me what you like, say that I need to 'git gud' at PVP if I

want to not lose my items. But to my understanding, this is a 

roleplay server, and frankly, the idea that being good at PVP

is required to not have everything you own absolutely taken

from your home in a walled city is revolting. 

 

In real life, it would take one sword strike to remove a single

raider for the rest of your life. But in Lord of The Craft, where

all are deathless, no matter what you do, there will be a band of

immortal raiders who will attack few days to have another shot at

taking everything you own. Its not a matter of 'if' the raiders will 

ever win, but 'when', as raids become a war of attrition, and if you

lose one, everything you own is up for grabs by a group whom wishes

you and your group harm.

 

Likewise, what is to keep these raiders from going full grief mode? Kill

the townies than start /trash ing anything that one doesnt want to keep. Its

utter insanity to me for this to be in any ways allowed.

 

 

Removed chest looting. That aside we've added a bunch of new additions that enable defenders to strike out against attackers.

3 minutes ago, ZhulikAltWithBadRepRatio said:

Between the chest popping, head taking, the massive cool-downs and 1 hour notification to GMs, I can safely say these rules are p dumb

Edit since Narthok posted right as I did: The cooldowns are still stupid and this system seems abusable.

Abusable in what sense? out of curiosity

[WuHanXianShi14 0]

21 minutes ago, H7R5 said:

Yikes untrue. Don't give people a reason to raid you and they will not raid you.

Sure, only a lot of the time those reasons include "We dont like you OOCly" or "youre active, therefore you get raided since we cant raid a ghost town"

 

Don't tell me what is and isnt true, I've been in literally a hundred or more raids since I joined this server

[Jasonhz 58]

Btw, what made you guys want to change the raid rules again? Too OP for raiders? Too OP for defenders? Or generally **** rules?

[ThatGuy_777 220]

Plenty of current raiders hop from nation to nation to whatever just for the sake of raiding. Laying low amounts to jack diddly squat unless you go out of your way to wander off into the far-far wilderness. But, at that point you're just contributing to spread out RP which only hurts the server.

Guards and/or mercenaries won't always be around in force on every day of the week 24/7. Admittedly, going off and just digging a hole somewhere is valid, but is that the sort of thing we REALLY want to be advocating for new players to do? It's pitiful, inconvenient, and in no way cohesive to RP ("This just in! Half of Atlas goes out to bury their most prized possessions."). Heists and warclaims are already meant for ransacking, plus they can justify such strict GM supervision over a raid which should really be less convoluted in nature.

[WuHanXianShi14 0]

@Narthok They wont be good rules until there's a player cap and rams and all other forms of siege equipment are removed, and cooldowns are consistent, win or lose.

[Islamadon 9158]

2 minutes ago, Narthok said:

Removed chest looting. That aside we've added a bunch of new additions that enable defenders to strike out against attackers.

Abusable in what sense? out of curiosity

1.4 Any individual that is downed during the duration of a raid (within the confines of the raided settlement and its immediacy) may be captured even if they are popped or D40. To do so make a modreq while providing a screencap of the individual being downed, ideally accompanied by a timestamp.

1. Captives may roll to break their bonds. A captive is permitted 3 tries but must do so with the supervision of a Moderator. Bonds of any kind will be broken on a roll of 15+.

2. If someone is executed or bleeds out during the raid they may not be captured / tped back.

First ez abuse is just emoting you bleed out to avoid capture. Additionally on this point, if you've ever dealt with uncooperative prisoners, the bind breaking stuff is actually abusable to the highest degree. It took me and my guys 2 hours once to get Manatee to a prison cell and then they just shut off. Now couple that with ROLLS to escape - yeah no.

Next, I think the prevention of non-loyalty declared chars is also sort of dumb. If you've a merc char who has no alleigance and tags along for the promise of loot, that should be alleigance enough.

I also spit on the taking of heads because you can't do it normally. If I was able to kill a peasant on the road right now solo, I could not take their head without permission. The same should apply for a raid. Alternatively, modify the head rule so that only ATTACKERS can have their heads taken by Defenders. Or, make it so that you can only acquire a head through RP and make the option that if you execute someone, you either give them your MC head or gear.

 

[Narthok 10416]

7 minutes ago, WuHanXianShi14 said:

Sure, only a lot of the time those reasons include "We dont like you OOCly" or "youre active, therefore you get raided since we cant raid a ghost town"

 

Don't tell me what is and isnt true, I've been in literally a hundred or more raids since I joined this server

tfw you're trying to fix this with your new suggestions 

 

[H7R5 55]

3 minutes ago, WuHanXianShi14 said:

Sure, only a lot of the time those reasons include "We dont like you OOCly" or "youre active, therefore you get raided since we cant raid a ghost town"

 

Don't tell me what is and isnt true, I've been in literally a hundred or more raids since I joined this server

I'm sure you've been in hundreds of raids, but I've been in hundreds more on both sides (even dozens on your side), attacking and defending. I've been in the mindset that you have been in before when I played an Elf, and here's why Elves are constantly targets. The Elves are pompous asses both in game and out, always have been condescending towards people outside their clique. Perhaps if you didn't view all raiders as cavemen "ME SMASH ME TAKE PIXELS" You wouldn't have this problem. Act decently and find RP solutions to RP problems and OOC solutions to OOC problems. If someone is raiding you for OOC reasons, get them banned instead of halting progress because you refuse to put in the work to better the server with reports to rid toxic behavior.