[Your View]Coups

[Ajax 335]

Personally I think you should be able to coup of your leader is just downright trash; perhaps that counts as not protecting citizens but it may go deeper than that.

[Luciloo 2680]

I’ve already expressed that this coup system will not function within the Druid nation, so as far as I’m concerned it’s a lot of effort and time for something that won’t work and will always give way to ooc drama, scheming and then toxicity and grudges.

[Unwillingly 18127]

Tldr, rules are on this server for a reason. If there are no rules for something such as this, this server would be nothing but a toxic cesspool where people use OOC to get to each other instead of RP. This server would be a whole lot worse if there were no rules for coups. 

“Just keep it to RP”

That’s not something that can work at all. You could say the same thing for raids and warclaims. What stops people from MCly breaking blocks to get into a city if they emote such? What stop people from raiding with 20+ men every other day? What stops people from instantly warclaiming a city with no CB? 

People are here to have fun, not live out their conquest dreams on a mineman fantasy server. 

4 hours ago, Viltaren said:

In that text there I am referencing a lot of what I saw during the Empire’s attempt to coup Sutica.
The coup did not go through because there was no rules. However, that did not stop its effects in the ooc community.
Sutica lost multiple people that were dear parts of the community because of it. These people were embittered by the failure of the coup.
I watched over months as Unwillingly was repeatedly contacted OOC and IC with people begging her to step down and just hand over the throne. I saw the stress it put on her. People who were once important parts of the community grew to hate and berate us on other discords, people would take their ooc grudges into RP and insult our characters despite never seeing us or interacting with us before.
The literal first thing I did as a leader of Sutica was tend to one such meeting where they were trying to force and convince me to give up the nation. Even though the leader they had sought to coup was now gone. This was an act that made no logical sense at this point, yet still it continued. 

My point is not a “woe is me, times were so bad.” My point is that Coups are trash for the OOC climate of a community, and their being allowed at all breeds hatred and division amongst players that would otherwise be friends and rp together. 

I am blessed to be on considerably better terms with the people who were a part of that, but It was damage that had to be repaired with time and a lot of effort. 
There's no reason to invite that again.

This is actually put really well and I have to agree 100%. 

I haven’t actually read over the coup rules yet but I’ve just heard people saying “wahh keep it to RP” and stuff. Don't keep it to RP, just make this be something very flexible and free, yet controlling. 

[1_Language_1 1671]

Please no, let nations deal with coups how they want. The minas should be higher on the level of charter, cause 20,000 is just too low for most nations. Coups should be a rare thing, so make the price different per charter so that rich people aren't couping all the damn time and affecting a community.

[CanadianKiwiFlight 1901]

Basically what most people who have disagreed on this thread have said.

 

I personally believe these coup rules aren’t *bad* per say, they sure could be a lot worse, but I just think all these are gunna lead to, is nation leaders skirting the rules on who they put into government, MORE ooc targeting and bad talk, long lasting grudges,  and probably the Empire earning more land from other races.

 

And to the people who’ve said “BUT TOXIC PROs” I really dont know much to say other than, don’t give your PRO to a [redacted]  

[Maury 411]

Having a forum-based system for what boils down to a raid that will heavily damage a nation, its status and infrastructure (i.e. removing what could potentially be an already competent NL), will be primarily held OOCly. This is irrefutable since most raids are planned as such to begin with. If you give a nation the power to overthrow its government, that invites shady “diplomatic” players *cough*  and “revolutionaries” *COUGH COUGH* to come and only stir more trouble for said nation. Plenty of players could have their personas PK’ed, yes, but who’s to stop them from creating a new character with an inherent hatred for the nation their previous persona tried to coup?

[xDK 1205]

I mean.. The PK rule would surely be the worst way to get rid of roleplay and to encourage inactivity. If someone gets coup’d, they would lose their character, leaving no room for any further roleplay. I think this would have the opposite effect than what it’s supposed to accomplish. (If it’s supposed to accomplish anything, that is.)

 

Note: This seems like something that isn’t thought out very well, but just some people hyping eachother up in a discord chat.

If more thought is put into this, in a valiant attempt to avoid another forum application, but instead encourages proper roleplay, I would consider it.

[lucasking321 124]

I want a coup that would be fun role play 

[Unwillingly 18127]

1 hour ago, xDK said:

I mean.. The PK rule would surely be the worst way to get rid of roleplay and to encourage inactivity. If someone gets coup’d, they would lose their character, leaving no room for any further roleplay. I think this would have the opposite effect than what it’s supposed to accomplish. (If it’s supposed to accomplish anything, that is.)

 

Note: This seems like something that isn’t thought out very well, but just some people hyping eachother up in a discord chat.

If more thought is put into this, in a valiant attempt to avoid another forum application, but instead encourages proper roleplay, I would consider it.

I agree regarding the PK clause. It will just make other people go after one another. If a nation leader is couped and killed even though they dont want to PK, that would be quite unfair to the one getting couped.

[blago 1602]

wooohoo

[jdesarno 381]

7 hours ago, Unwillingly said:

Tldr, rules are on this server for a reason. If there are no rules for something such as this, this server would be nothing but a toxic cesspool where people use OOC to get to each other instead of RP. This server would be a whole lot worse if there were no rules for coups. 

“Just keep it to RP”

That’s not something that can work at all. You could say the same thing for raids and warclaims. What stops people from MCly breaking blocks to get into a city if they emote such? What stop people from raiding with 20+ men every other day? What stops people from instantly warclaiming a city with no CB? 

People are here to have fun, not live out their conquest dreams on a mineman fantasy server.

 

 

Agreeing with Unwillingly about this, ooc bias runs too rampant in many cases of actual progression, i.e magic, town leadership, etc.

 

Rules are meant to exist for basic principle, not be twisted in so many ways it turns into a further amalgamation of what it originally was. 

 

It’s all fun and laughs until someone comes with a ultimatum on your doorstep, then that’s when people start screaming random sludge at one another and derails further from there.

 

Like seen in some cases with former players upon lotc, once they burn all bridges with high population activity settlements and are unable to return due to ‘ooc toxicity’ they usually have three options. 

 

One, attempt to form a new group with little chance of success.

 

Two,  pretend like nothing happened and try to go about their own daily routine if not in different location.

 

Three, give up and hiatus/quit until people forget about what even happened in the first place, or just leave entirely.

 

If you want my two cents, it’s a dumb thing to have.

 

Remember, this is only an opinion. 

[squakhawk 14040]

10 hours ago, Imperium said:

Setting up a system of rules and applications leaves room for abuse. The government officals apart of fhe coup should actually be high ranking. 

 

However, I do believe setting up a system for coups will be abused and limits rp. If a nation truly wants a new leader a coup can be done through rp, having this system would just come down to who has the better pvp goons on their side.

I think that this is so right. There are so many leaps and bounds you must cross to perform a coup- all by busywork with people who won’t interact with it. I think coups should be a thing, but they should be entirely organic. Of course some limitations should apply, such as a expense free for an example. But by no right should you need four members of leadership to support your coup. Not only does it vary with how powerful or how much sway different government officials have (such as a minister of home vs the grand marshal, if they even count as leadership), they are also almost certainly a very tight knit group- and will meta this. You can be a perfect queen in saying that meta does not exist between leadership, but near certainly in every case it does.

Not to mention, as a nation leader, you have to uphold your standard and be an example of your nation. Being someone that cries about metagaming when they didn’t know there was going to be a coup or who was in it, then not pk’ing is the most childish thing possible. I think the figurehead/true leader SHOULD follow the PK clause, if you’re afraid of dying as a nation leader, you’re a coward- and should not be leading. As an example, there was an attempt on The Emperor’s life the other day. The Archchancellor was shot in the chest and went into a coma. Having respect for roleplay that is extremely planned and thought out to execute such a thing is needed as any basic player- and that is what is so respected about the two. 

I think the coup CD is a great idea, the mina fee is a great idea, having signatories is a great idea, and leadership changing/pk’ing is a great idea. But it should be both up to the Coup-er and the Default what else gets decided in RP,  if they accept a pk, do so. I feel that too many people are terrified of losing power, and if they are, reflect that in roleplay- not in ooc politics or shouting everyone is metagaming or powergaming around you. You’re more insane than your character would be if your feelings were properly roleplayed.


Overall, the system should be sliced and diced into small bits;
The coup attempt should be at peak hours (Based on the activity plugin) for that nation, and have the nation leader online. This may promote alting from a NL, but then it only rises more attention for inactive leadership to be purged if they display such cowardice and pettiness. 

The NL should be PK’d should the revolters find it necessary or wanted. Same with those who attempted the coup, if a failure. I think to prevent a constant wave of swarming alt personas to coup spam on cd, making a personal cooldown should be an idea that is considered. 

There should be certain charter levels with proved citizenship and non-alters TO revolt and sign a charter to get it approved.

A mina fee (Higher) should be presented and paid. 

If there is Roleplay related to the coup such as setting up traps, making hideouts or plans, and finally EXECUTING those plans, it should be modreq’d and ovesaw by a moderator that is NOT affiliated with that nation. 

A Coup CD is a great idea. What’s not is the hour long timelimit to execute the coup. For combat, this is fine. However, for roleplay, this is an extremely poor idea, and promotes excruciatingly slow responding, which is not punishable- and very popular among people who are about to be killed. The coup rules are great however- and should follow standard fighting procedure with no person joining past when PVP is called. And PVP should be called as SOON as the coup is executed. 

Overall, these are my thoughts and ideas, I know some players feel the same, I know some players feel different. Having a coup with no rules COULD work but requires both parties to respect such happening, which won’t happen depending on which side will whine more that they didn’t get their way. I think however, these rules in their entirety would only lead to no coups being executed under them. 

[Imperium 3495]

4 minutes ago, SquakHawk said:

I think that this is so right. There are so many leaps and bounds you must cross to perform a coup- all by busywork with people who won’t interact with it. I think coups should be a thing, but they should be entirely organic. Of course some limitations should apply, such as a expense free for an example. But by no right should you need four members of leadership to support your coup. Not only does it vary with how powerful or how much sway different government officials have (such as a minister of home vs the grand marshal, if they even count as leadership), they are also almost certainly a very tight knit group- and will meta this. You can be a perfect queen in saying that meta does not exist between leadership, but near certainly in every case it does.

Not to mention, as a nation leader, you have to uphold your standard and be an example of your nation. Being someone that cries about metagaming when they didn’t know there was going to be a coup or who was in it, then not pk’ing is the most childish thing possible. I think the figurehead/true leader SHOULD follow the PK clause, if you’re afraid of dying as a nation leader, you’re a coward- and should not be leading. As an example, there was an attempt on The Emperor’s life the other day. The Archchancellor was shot in the chest and went into a coma. Having respect for roleplay that is extremely planned and thought out to execute such a thing is needed as any basic player- and that is what is so respected about the two. 

I think the coup CD is a great idea, the mina fee is a great idea, having signatories is a great idea, and leadership changing/pk’ing is a great idea. But it should be both up to the Coup-er and the Default what else gets decided in RP,  if they accept a pk, do so. I feel that too many people are terrified of losing power, and if they are, reflect that in roleplay- not in ooc politics or shouting everyone is metagaming or powergaming around you. You’re more insane than your character would be if your feelings were properly roleplayed.


Overall, the system should be sliced and diced into small bits;
The coup attempt should be at peak hours (Based on the activity plugin) for that nation, and have the nation leader online. This may promote alting from a NL, but then it only rises more attention for inactive leadership to be purged if they display such cowardice and pettiness. 

The NL should be PK’d should the revolters find it necessary or wanted. Same with those who attempted the coup, if a failure. I think to prevent a constant wave of swarming alt personas to coup spam on cd, making a personal cooldown should be an idea that is considered. 

There should be certain charter levels with proved citizenship and non-alters TO revolt and sign a charter to get it approved.

A mina fee (Higher) should be presented and paid. 

If there is Roleplay related to the coup such as setting up traps, making hideouts or plans, and finally EXECUTING those plans, it should be modreq’d and ovesaw by a moderator that is NOT affiliated with that nation. 

A Coup CD is a great idea. What’s not is the hour long timelimit to execute the coup. For combat, this is fine. However, for roleplay, this is an extremely poor idea, and promotes excruciatingly slow responding, which is not punishable- and very popular among people who are about to be killed. The coup rules are great however- and should follow standard fighting procedure with no person joining past when PVP is called. And PVP should be called as SOON as the coup is executed. 

Overall, these are my thoughts and ideas, I know some players feel the same, I know some players feel different. Having a coup with no rules COULD work but requires both parties to respect such happening, which won’t happen depending on which side will whine more that they didn’t get their way. I think however, these rules in their entirety would only lead to no coups being executed under them. 

Just to give an example of a Coup that happened and worked without rules, Norland when narthok was leading it this map. His people didn’t agree with what he was doing and dueled and killed him. He pk’d following his death and norland had new leaders.

[monkeypoacher 8055]

18 hours ago, Aeldrin said:

A coup should take a majority of RO’s to initiate. Nothing less.

 

no

 

imo if you can’t defend the interior of your city you do not deserve to have it. the only restriction on coups should be that they have to happen while the PRO is online

[Monkee 7369]

3 hours ago, xxx said:

 

no

 

imo if you can’t defend the interior of your city you do not deserve to have it. the only restriction on coups should be that they have to happen while the PRO is online

yh no that’s retarded. ive led coups on other nations before and i can tell u that myself lol. 99% of coups are spawned from ooc bs and are the actions of another nation either too lazy or too incapable of directly warring their rival. a coup should have a genuinely strong base of support within the administration of the current rulers, so it should be majority of RO’s