PVP Default

[Quavinir_Twiceborn 1050]

Pvp isnt default. Defender is. If anything, the system you

propose would create more PVP, and less RP combat.

The current system, though flawed, is currently the best

system for deciding combat we have.  Time-gating CRP

would only make people who want to PVP stall as long

as possible so that they can PVP, whether both argueing,

or simply taking a while with emotes. 

 

 

 

[Bluee 443]

Bring back nexus.

[Salvo 1852]

The issues of both PvP and RP combat have been brought up dozens, if not hundreds of times during the server’s lengthy history. I find it pretty pointless to argue about it any further, but I’ll try to shed some light on it for you, since you’re a relatively new player.

 

PVP default is quick, meritocratic and generally painless for both sides, both winning and losing. At the same time, it is also prone to abuse, with people roaming in squads to gank lone travelers and quickly flee afterwards.

 

RP default is certainly better for character development and cinematic moments. This said, it also takes much longer to conclude and requires cooperation from both sides. Due to the extremely free-form style of LotC’s RP combat, one side MUST be willing to lose in order not to drag the conflict on forever / not to require the intervention of Mods. Also, it becomes really lackluster and messy once too many people become involved.

 

As you can see, both forms are flawed. In the end, if combat becomes a nuisance for the people involved in it, then it’s better to let things end quickly and just PvP it out. I wish there could be a middle way, or a sort of compromise, but after 5+ years of discussion, I’m becoming quite sure that there’s not.

 

 

You’ll just have to get used to it.

[monkeypoacher 8055]

5 hours ago, Skyrunner said:

Coming from a person who helps lead a nation who uses Guard Default and Defender Default to actually force CRP in these scenarios, I wouldn’t be entirely against these rules. Though I also don’t have many problems with the rules as they stand right now except when it comes to the 10 person rule, mainly as I’ve seen this one abused before. A two person raiding party (Not really a raid so not effected by CD) enters into a city on horses fully prepared for PVP runs through the city and hits as many people as possible to force PVP default in a place where nobody is prepared for PVP. This lead to a scenario where only 2 out of the 8 individuals involved wanted to PVP, and a scenario which wouldn’t have taken long because of the numeric advantage of one side even in RP. Which is why I would at least suggest a addendum to the rule that states for PVP to be called automatically that the attacking side must have 4 or more people.

 

you use guard default to force CRP because you have some of the absolute worst offenders in terms of powergaming magic on the entire server, and some of the worst magic RPers I have ever seen.

 

literally if you needed one example to say “pvp default is necessary at least in some circumstances” I would point to Sutica. I had to sit through 4 hours of Lily arguing with a guy that she could fire an arcanism bolt to hit him square in the head from 30 feet away on top of a tower in the middle of the night in a rainstorm. Sutica’s brand of aloof, brooding glowy-eyed mage has been given nothing but unconditional love from the staff, despite being universally loathed as a trope by basically everyone who roleplays. You’ve been showered in all sorts of ridiculous magical gifts, from telekinetic swords to literal immortality. Previous lore teams would have busted a gut laughing at the thought that you could have half of the **** you’re currently parading around with. The only reason you think RP combat is fair or enjoyable to anyone is that you have been set up so you cannot lose. 

 

Specifically in the raider example, you got outplayed. Why are you complaining? I have a hard time feeling bad for you when you admit in the same paragraph to using the rules to railroad people into doing CRP. Someone then used the same rules to railroad you into a PvP fight and crushed you. You guys get griefed so often specifically because you’re snide, disrespectful and obnoxious in game, and you utterly refuse to accept any situation where you might be put at a slight disadvantage. You outnumbered the bandits 4 to 1 and you had the home field advantage, and you presumably lost. How is that anything but a personal failure from you? How does that justify the rules being changed? Grow up. 

 

As for the OP – I like the idea, but I’ve never seen a CRP that lasted under 15 minutes. You’d have to increase the timer to maybe an hour for it to be reasonable. Otherwise it’s common sense that we shouldn’t force people to waste hours of their time typing out emotes about swinging a sword around

[Thornz 549]

Sooooo nexus racial perks again?

[DISCOLIQUID 2701]

I don’t know what to tell you, PvP sucks but it’s literally better than four hour long ****-fests of CRP. 

IDK, just ******* hack if you hate it that much

[mmat 7460]

We went through this 6 years ago. PvP default is the better system. RP default is prolonged crap.

[LordCrowe 173]

So i’m new, so if I end up being horribly wrong about everything, please point it out and don’t lynch me

 

So it took me awhile to figure out what nexus was going through old wiki stuff and so on but I agree that racial perks are a good solution, however from what I understand nexus’s coding was a cluster**** and as such I doubt it would be as easy as separating the perks from everything else.

 

However here’s what I think:

 

1. PVP in warzone’s being mandatory should continue, its a giant cluster**** otherwise
2. Defender default should be redefined, from what im hearing what happens is 2 characters interact, and one continues being provoking but waits for the other to actually attack, so they can call pvp default using the defender system... that is BROKEN as all hell, so redefine it so that being provoking like that paints you as the attacker
3. just like how pvp default has a rule that you can’t change the attackers and defenders numbers after the battle starts, same should apply to rp combat, at least during raids and the like, the incident cited by Skyrunner is a travesty, being “outplayed” is not an excuse, that would be the kind of exploitative logic i’d expect on an anarchy factions pvp server, not LOTC.

The tweaks listed in point 2 and 3 I think would cut down on the more exploitative use of logic to force pvp, I can see in advance why point 3 might not work, but point 2 I think is a must.

 

These aren’t perfect solutions I admit, but it would help

 

Hope this helps!