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Player Retention Report


Treshure
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I agree with the proposition to guide new players to whatever settlement is active at the moment they join. Maybe, provided there are a couple active options, they might be guided to a settlement of their choice. Player retention is really what's most important here. Once they have a better feel for LotC, they will naturally move to wherever suits them best.

 

To get ahead of the objections, I don't consider this unfair. The options are: the player visits an active settlement, the player visits an inactive settlement, or the player just logs off. The latter two options drastically drive up the chance of that new player never returning. I'd prefer the most active settlements get a temporary boost from new players, rather than the whole server miss out on them permanently.

 

Edit: Thank you to Treshure and the rest of the team for compiling this report. 

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It's cool that someone finally looked at this data instead of vaguely gesturing towards "player retention" to justify whatever absurd decisions they wanted to make anyway. Really excellent work, and as much as this is going to turn into a big fat stinky debate thread, I think I should take a beat and just acknowledge the work you put into this.

 

It was interesting to read these graphs, because it shows how apocalyptically bad LoTC is at delivering on its basic premise. Seriously, the server is eventually going to die if someone doesn't come around and actually give new players a reason to stay here. The 35% quit on the first day statistic isn't surprising at all, when you realize those new players log in with nothing to do; even if you take someone to a nation capital, the moment you leave they get a resounding feeling of "well, what the **** do I do now?" 

 

15 hours ago, VIROS said:

I agree with the proposition to guide new players to whatever settlement is active at the moment they join. Maybe, provided there are a couple active options, they might be guided to a settlement of their choice. Player retention is really what's most important here. Once they have a better feel for LotC, they will naturally move to wherever suits them best.

 

To get ahead of the objections, I don't consider this unfair. The options are: the player visits an active settlement, the player visits an inactive settlement, or the player just logs off. The latter two options drastically drive up the chance of that new player never returning. I'd prefer the most active settlements get a temporary boost from new players, rather than the whole server miss out.

 

There's a reason VIROS's suggestion won't actually work, despite staff trying their hardest to implement it for the past 4 years or so. New players aren't just getting lost all the time and deciding to quit the server. The capitals aren't hard to find anymore - they're the only places you can go, practicallyWe've sacrificed so much lore and entire communities in the name of making it easier to get to Oren on your first day and it hasn't worked. You can look at the pie chart and see how much player retention has improved.

 

16 hours ago, Treshure said:
  • Welcome to Lord of the Craft, the world's #1 Minecraft Roleplaying Server. We have been providing a unique and custom experience to our players since 2011, working to provide a brand new creative and innovative experience to even the most Veteran of Minecraft Players. We employ a whitelist to help you create a character to enter and explore the vast worlds created for players to build in. Build your own nation, learn and cast powerful magics - Become a King, an Emperor, a Wizard, or a Warrior. Your path is your own, what will you choose?

 

The problem with this server has ******* nothing to do with settlements. People join LoTC and expect to embark on an epic, meaningful quest. They get shuttled limp-wristedly right into "activity hubs" full of people randomly sprint hopping around or afking. LoTC is an RPG with no exposition, no quest markers, no indication of how to play the game - and it doesn't have to be this way. We can make the first thing you see on LoTC into an interesting roleplay scenario. We can make it so that players are immediately involved in an engaging story.

 

I joined LoTC 8 years ago, arguably in its heyday. I stumbled off the boat to Kalos and watched on in horror as a dwarf was executed for desertion. I unsuccessfully tried to rescue slave women from the Lur camp, rallying men to go scale the wooden walls until the 'skygods' came and stopped us and my parents told me to go to bed. I sparred with random knights in the streets of New Arethor, swore an oath to House Winter, and sustained a mortal wound - nursed back to health only by the careful hands of a blue haired elf. My unbelievably cringy 12 year old fantasy sona named ******* Draken Pendragon fell in love - bonding with an unhappily married woman over their shared feeling of loneliness and ostracism in the heart of Oren; whatever LoTC promised to me, it delivered. That's why I'm here.

 

I'm sure I'm mostly telling you about my nostalgia, but I also think LoTC is an amazing server when it tries to be. The Athera eventline is a recent example of how just a little bit of community effort can create something with massive potential. Exploring an old map populated by our old characters and trying to piece together their history from what's left behind is... an entire map's worth of eventline. It's also a great example of how much potential we throw in the trash in the name of procedure. LoTC's staff is too bureaucratic, too egoistic and political, to do anything with the massive gold mine of player written stories it sits on. It cannibalizes its most motivated, productive individuals and rewards people for sitting on bureaucratic initiatives that go nowhere.

 

The actual solution to LoTC's player retention problem is radical. It involves scaling back the authority of nation leaders and staff that has been inflated so thoroughly that it seems unthinkable to change it. It involves trashing a lot of the systems and procedures we've developed over the years to deal with incidents in the community. But once we really hand the power back to players to create the experience they joined LoTC for, it'll seem really obvious.

 

The solution... Is to delete the server. 

 

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As a relatively new player and being friends/acquaintances with a number of newer players as well as old players, I think i sit in a bit of a middleground between the old and the new members of the community, so I will be commenting with that perspective in mind.

 

The numbers there are certainly spooky, considering we also have player bleed from veteran players leaving the server permanently or taking breaks, or just reducing their activity due to burnout, and so on. If someone have time and interest, it might be worth doing a survey of players to look into that existing bleed to get an idea for the scale and the causes. Candid feedback of why someone is leaving the server could be very enlightening to staff, as long as they actually take notice of it, and dont shrug it off as I know some staff members have previously.

 

It has to be acknowledged that a very small fraction of our lost playerbase comes from people who apply and then forget/move on/lose interedt without ever logging on, the greatest chunk of players we lose here are people who log in, experience the server, and go 'no thanks' after a mere day, or week. What are the reasons for this? We can guess at some, as you mentioned a few likely candidates.

 

I dont agree with saying this isnt our fault. Yeah, not all of it is our fault, there will always be some players who applied and then realised it wasnt for them, or they no longer have time to play, but I certainly think that the initial impression a new player receives of the server and especially the community is very important. And frankly, the behaviour I have seen and in some cases am guilty of myself, has not been such that is welcoming to outside groups.

 

Chief among this at the moment is vortex. I dont think vortex is having a distinct negative effect on our retention, however I do think the vast numbers of threads created in the last few weeks often parroting the same criticisms of vortex, and the number of people who are complaining almost all the time in game, in ooc, about one thing or another - not enough nodes, not certain types of node, not able to do this certain thing, this thing takes too long, etc - do have a negative effect. Not to mention the status updates of which a ridiculous amount are 'vortex bad' or some variation. How does this reflect on new players, when they see existing players complaining so much?

And yes, some of this is genuine feedback on vortex but so so much is not.

 

We should also consider accessibility. Mechanics aside, which is its own issue constantly being worked on, the accessibility issue that stands out to me is that the server has cliques. We all know it and they run deep, with intraplayer relationships going back years leading to ooc friendships and enemies and groups and so on (one of the first lessons in server metalore i received was about the Flays and the Reivers, for example). Its very difficult for new players to come into this situation, and in some cases for certain nations it does seem almost predatory, that the nation wants a player to join because it boosts their numbers, their activity count, not because they think the nation is a good fit or so they can rp with the person. Then they go back to interacting primarily with their chosen few players who they are friends with ooc. I could go on at length regarding how this further corrupts the application system for magic, making some kinds of magic impossible to learn due to OOC agreements for people to just teach their friends and vice versa.

 

One thing I havent seen much is community team interacting with new players, checking up on them, etc. Im sure that a monk was available when the players first joined, but i didnt see any sign of them following up with new players, and anyone who has experience in recruitment, management, and that kind of thing knows that following up is extremely important. Consider this - how likely is it for a new player who encounters a problem or has issues to reach out and contact a staff member directly? I expect a good portion just log off, and dont come back. They dont want to bother staff, or dont know who to ask, and so on. This could easily (in theory) be rectified by a few things. One that occurs to me now is that we have the pink tag for new players, which expires after ~20 hours of game time. Is it possible to have a "fresh" tag, or something along those lines, which lasts for...lets say 4 fours, and when it expires it notifies community team similar to a ticket, for one of them to go and check in with that player? Answer any questions they have at the time, make sure they feel welcome or safe, see if they need help getting somewhere or doing something, etc. The benefits of this might be obvious, but it would also be a step towards giving community team more things to do, considering the recent complaints about a lack of that.

 

Something I did talk to snoopie about a few weeks ago is giving veteran players more incentive to guide and assist new players, though nothing seems to have come of it as of yet. How beneficial is it for a new player to start their tenure by making friends with a permanent character (and a regular player to boot) who can perform many functions similar to a monk? Making a friend on your first day might go a long way to keeping you on the server. Not to say that CTs cant make friends with new players ooc, but a monk is rarely going to make friends with a new player character, and even if they do the chances of that monk ever being seen again by the player are slim to none.

 

I might come back with more thoughts after my breakfast

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12 minutes ago, monkeypoacher said:

I joined LoTC 8 years ago, arguably in its heyday. I stumbled off the boat to Kalos and watched on in horror as a dwarf was executed for desertion. I unsuccessfully tried to rescue slave women from the Lur camp, rallying men to go scale the wooden walls until the 'skygods' came and stopped us and my parents told me to go to bed. I sparred with random knights in the streets of New Arethor, swore an oath to House Winter, and sustained a mortal wound - nursed back to health only by the medical prowess of a blue haired elf. My unbelievably cringy 12 year old fantasy sona named ******* Draken Pendragon fell in love - bonding with a woman in a loveless marriage over their shared feeling of loneliness and ostracism in the heart of Oren; whatever LoTC promised to me, it delivered and that's why I'm here.

 

Unironically this. The first few weeks are, I think, important as hell to LoTC to actually keep players. I don't remember much of my first few weeks but I do remember being chased down a hill by a dreadlander before being executed as well as learning how to break into the eternal library. That's why I'm still here, because of the chaos of the initial days. In my first few weeks I didn't join a nation, wouldn't join a nation until I made my dwarf, but I stuck around because of the good natured chaos. When interesting **** starts happening again consistently then retention will rise.

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On 1/27/2021 at 3:01 AM, Sham404 said:

Chief among this at the moment is vortex. I dont think vortex is having a distinct negative effect on our retention, however I do think the vast numbers of threads created in the last few weeks often parroting the same criticisms of vortex, and the number of people who are complaining almost all the time in game, in ooc, about one thing or another - not enough nodes, not certain types of node, not able to do this certain thing, this thing takes too long, etc - do have a negative effect. Not to mention the status updates of which a ridiculous amount are 'vortex bad' or some variation. How does this reflect on new players, when they see existing players complaining so much?

And yes, some of this is genuine feedback on vortex but so so much is not.


The developer of Vortex has logged on

 

The crafting plugin, the world map, the settlement and war rules all individually have very little to do with player retention. These individual issues aren't the reason so many people bounce off this server, that's because combined, all of the plugins and rulesets and lore we've created don't come together to make a cohesive system that players can get hooked on.

 

If you joined the server to slay a dragon or go on a quest or whatever, you can't Vortex your way to that goal. No amount of ferrum chainmail sets will take you closer to the dragon's lair. The politics of mineman nations you know nothing about will not entertain you if you just want to kill dragons, and you will not care about how fair the activity requirements for new charters are or about decentralizing the map. These are things we've come up with that new players do not give a **** about.

 

Vortex isn't that bad (for a plugin that gatekeeps progression in minecraft) but the administrative decisions that got Vortex made are a real problem for the server. Most of the community had no real desire for Vortex crafting but it got added in anyway, because some staff that are completely disconnected from the community thought there needed to be an "economy" that makes it harder for players to get resources. Incidentally, Vortex doesn't have enough nodes and the grind for textiles to get past copper tools is way too confusing and takes too long. But the staff dismiss any criticism that could guide development towards an easier, more player-friendly plugin as 'Vortex bad.' Again, totally one-sided.

 

I have no interest in collecting alum and goat hides for hours to get the next level of pvp gear. It really doesn't interest me at all. But you could make a pretty good RP server with the Vortex plugin if you managed to weave the repetitive grinding mechanics into meaningful actions in character. 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, monkeypoacher said:

 

 

It's getting real late where I'm at, so I'm going to have to suffice for a shorter response than I'd prefer. 

I like where your head is at. In many ways, you're dead right. The crazy, wild, unexpected adventures you get thrown into are often the ones that'll keep you there the most. The issue is the execution.

In a perfect world, we could test radical solutions to see their immediate effect. But the die is cast. We can't immediately restructure the way the roads or the nations are laid out right at the launch of a new map. Much harder would be to fix the behavior of players (how can we facilitate good ol' interesting RP?). 

 

My goal for player retention is to measure each step along the way carefully with the actions that we have control over. Like you said, it's a lot better to put hard numbers on the table rather than blind speculation. If we implement a major change (such as portals leading directly to hubs) and it negatively impacts player retention, then we would know within thirty to sixty days, and we're back to the drawing board. We try the smaller fixes and build on that. The tough pill that we have to swallow is that it isn't a straight-away radical solution. The alternative isn't deleting the server. The changes that we make have to be measurable, and they're going to take time. But I think we'll get there.

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11 hours ago, Treshure said:

 

It's getting real late where I'm at, so I'm going to have to suffice for a shorter response than I'd prefer. 

I like where your head is at. In many ways, you're dead right. The crazy, wild, unexpected adventures you get thrown into are often the ones that'll keep you there the most. The issue is the execution.

In a perfect world, we could test radical solutions to see their immediate effect. But the die is cast. We can't immediately restructure the way the roads or the nations are laid out right at the launch of a new map. Much harder would be to fix the behavior of players (how can we facilitate good ol' interesting RP?). 

 

My goal for player retention is to measure each step along the way carefully with the actions that we have control over. Like you said, it's a lot better to put hard numbers on the table rather than blind speculation. If we implement a major change (such as portals leading directly to hubs) and it negatively impacts player retention, then we would know within thirty to sixty days, and we're back to the drawing board. We try the smaller fixes and build on that. The tough pill that we have to swallow is that it isn't a straight-away radical solution. The alternative isn't deleting the server. The changes that we make have to be measurable, and they're going to take time. But I think we'll get there.

 

We've become very set in our ways about how this server is supposed to be run. Every map has to be sterile WorldPainter terrain with building only inside pre-designated nation tiles. We have to have a complicated list of requirements and activity checks for you to create a settlement or write lore. A lot of this stuff doesn't make sense to, or just frustrates new players trying to get involved with the server. We have steadily ratcheted up the difficulty required to start something up on this server that most people don't even try anymore, and sometimes that's the only way new players can get into this community. 


We can't restructure the way the roads and nations are laid out on this map? That's a suspect claim to me. In previous maps we've changed the position of the cloud temple, went from worldguard to freebuild, and moved nations and roads around all without seriously injuring player retention. You're collecting data on new players, and new players don't have a stake in those sorts of decisions. The decisions being made are largely about fairness to existing nations (centralize the map, make nation capitals the only hubs, etc.) or obedience to precedents and procedures (we've tried X in the past, Y happened). Fixing player behavior isn't a realistic or meaningful goal when pursued in isolation, but removing rule-breaking players or cracking down on poor RP practices? Those decisions might be worth making. 

 

I think it's cool that you can look at the effects of certain decisions on player retention empirically, but you also have to pay attention to factors external to the decision that affect player retention, and avoid reasoning that just wouldn't occur or make sense to actual new players. The average new player has never been to Oren or Sutica and absolutely does not care if the walk to one of these nations takes longer, after all.

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Just what is there to actually do?

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1 hour ago, monkeypoacher said:

 

We've become very set in our ways about how this server is supposed to be run. Every map has to be sterile WorldPainter terrain with building only inside pre-designated nation tiles. We have to have a complicated list of requirements and activity checks for you to create a settlement or write lore. A lot of this stuff doesn't make sense to, or just frustrates new players trying to get involved with the server. We have steadily ratcheted up the difficulty required to start something up on this server that most people don't even try anymore, and sometimes that's the only way new players can get involved in this community. 


We can't restructure the way the roads and nations are laid out on this map? That's a suspect claim to me. In previous maps we've changed the position of the cloud temple, went from worldguard to freebuild, and moved nations and roads around all without seriously injuring player retention. You're collecting data on new players, and new players don't have a stake in those sorts of decisions. The decisions being made are largely about fairness to existing nations (centralize the map, make nation capitals the only hubs, etc.) or obedience to precedents and procedures (we've tried X in the past, Y happened). Fixing player behavior isn't a realistic or meaningful goal when pursued in isolation, but removing rule-breaking players or cracking down on poor RP practices? Those decisions might be worth making. 

 

I think it's cool that you can look at the effects of certain decisions on player retention empirically, but you also have to pay attention to factors external to the decision that affect player retention, and avoid reasoning that just wouldn't occur or make sense to actual new players. The average new player has never been to Oren or Sutica and absolutely does not care if the walk to one of these nations takes longer, after all.

 

I can attest to this (in bold text) entirely.

 

I am probably one of the oldest players, making my nth return to check out LotC. I even installed Minecraft this time just to see what changed. I must admit, the server is a far cry from the relatively easy-to-use and easy-to-access mechanics, creative process, and interactivity that welcomed me in when I started on the original Aegis map. I hope that the proper personnel would consider sitting down and coming up with action items to address the above point.

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Server is boring as **** even for old players; there's a reason why every natiom has event managers now who spam feasts and festivals every day just to get people to log on. 

 

When I joined the server I didn't have to have some Community Team member hold my hand and entertain me until I settled in. No one likes being babied. The CT settling you in is the equivalent of those annoying tutorial pop-ups in an RTS. 

 

Nor did established players give a **** about me or have to baby me either. They didn't have to, because the server wasn't boring as **** and in a severe new blood drought. 

 

Simple fact of the matter is that the server is boring as **** and all fun has been drained out by ever mounting restrictions, by rules, mechanics, and even the way the community sets itself up. 

 

I bet you any money that out of all the most recent maps, Atlas had by far the best new player retention rates. Because back then less stupdily restrictive and arbitrary rules meant real conflict still happened, freebuild and less NL cultism meant people could play the game and natural RP hubs formed in natural places(making RP much easier to find), the former combined with no insanely obtuse crafting system meant players could get stuck in and establish themselves or their group without frustration, I could go on. 

 

At least in early Arcas we still had wars and the like so interesting stuff could happen *sometimes*, and there's a reason why we had some of our highest peaks since 2012 at that time(great growth from Atlas + **** to do, even if it was worse than Atlas).

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Okay, now im awake.

 

There is nothing wrong with rules and regulations. As a community grows larger the rules must become more detailed to account for scenarios tbe community encounters. I think the issue comes when rules and regulations become the be all end all, and players and staff feel they can not do things spontaneously due to the restrictions. Look at the rules regarding player run events - you cant do this, you cant do that, you cant x y z. What can you do? It doesnt create an environment very encouraging of player run events.

 

Certainly CT shouldnt baby new players, but clearly what we have now (CT essentially dropping new players off in a location and saying adios) isnt working either. 

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2 hours ago, Sham404 said:

How beneficial is it for a new player to start their tenure by making friends with a permanent character (and a regular player to boot) who can perform many functions similar to a monk?

 

Wilven sanctuary monks were exactly this type of player-ran group until being co-opted and mutated by the community team. They stripped away the majority of the roleplay elements and now only use it as a tool for guiding new players. Things like "monk magic" were roleplayed scenarios instead of little more than an OOC premise. I made a long argument for the removal of the group as just a veil for personas with staff of pex and a return of actual monk roleplay many months ago but it was met with a community admin that replied with a misplaced and tangential line from the terms of service about intellectual property rights. Many of these current monk players make the persona the first day on Community Team and don't care for the lore behind the Wilven sanctuary. Most probably don't even know who Wilven Adonan was.

 

As it stands, people have no reason to invest in the server and those who remain are people who are either steadfast in a community or somebody who has already invested in the server back when it was less stultified. The avalanche of rules for basic conduct will continue to smother free-form RP and choice for new players when it is stressed to them when whitelisting that the server is a relatively sandbox setting. 

 

It's reassuring to me that there have been new players that talk of their adventures fighting trolls and freeing slaves from orcs to carry them across the map to a medic's care, but these events become rarer and rarer as the server's body focuses on keeping the quotidian tea-sipping RP as the standard. If you don't want to sit in a tavern or grind for copper there is just not much available to immediately do; any grand adventure that people might have assumptions about being able to do will be stewarded by event teams with player caps and set dates with little spontaneity to action.

 

But what is there to do in the meantime for a new player? They don't have the jaded knowledge to sit playing different games until there is a Discord ping about an event, or have the contentedness to sit in taverns and talk until something arrives to do. There is no interim activity that can offer adventure, most players wanting to be spell-slinging knights end up sat doing gate duty in some human nation as the closest they can get to having action and excitement is a bandit knocking on the bars and running away. Mounting rules, mechanics, and a growing disinterest of the average player to be proactive due to the latter two reasons mean that the server's legislated itself to a state of adventure-by-appointment instead of being a truly organic setting.

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I want to comment on my experiences at least recently compared to the last year after I was banned for a few recent months. At least when I came back this past week, I by a little bit feel like a new player -- new map, new cities, plenty of new people or at least changed usernames and it feels like LoTC is just about a whole new world and community altogether.

But I know the community in fragments, I know how to find RP, I know how to find events, storylines, and how to progress. When you know how all of it works, you find fun where ever you look.

Hell, I walked around Almaris last night and randomly was given an event by D4NNA at a ruin that was honestly REALLY cool of them to do. I was solo, and that little bit was very enjoyable and cute, nothing was dangerous and it was mostly atmospheric -- but it gave me and my character something to talk about, something to refer back to and potentially return to. That is a prime example of a quality which adds to player retention, but a new player might not even look around the wilderness of Almaris.

We can't of course expect ST to provide this for everyone and their mother though. While I felt like I was in a way playing an Elder Scrolls game with that interaction, it isn't the same for everyone. But that little interaction was just enough to tell me, "Well it isn't so bad after all." You walk around Almaris right now and, I think I say this reluctantly, while the map is absolutely breathtakingly beautiful and I know it was painstakingly pieced together, it's so-so large, the cities while extravagant are impossibly titanic, and it's a serious task to find RP during less active hours. Vortex is a choke hold on a curious new player and old player alike, and it's just such a daunting task to advance now.

I'm Aether VIP. I had a vault. I know people. I have connections. I have magicks. This isn't as daunting a task for me to get set up, but still I feel some looming wall I need to scale that -- I really don't want to. I want to roleplay, that's where the value of my character shows. Not through mechanics or Vortex. All of these daunting tasks before me are like an impassable mountain to a newer player and, I feel like these retention rates will drastically change in a year's time unless something is done now. No amount of cool atmospheric encounters in the wilderness of Almaris can change those things, only decisions on a leadership level will.

A few things can fix the issues I've listed.

  1. Add an increased number of soulstone slots. This way, you aren't traveling for 30 years on this beautiful albeit massive map.
  2. Consider changes to Vortex. I think resource mines should be modified -- nobody wants to use energy on wood.
  3. Allow for nations to purchase a very restricted limited creative. Limited-limited-creative. I don't know -- just let people finish their ugly, incomplete builds so they're pretty like they should be. So they function, and draw in active RP. Plus too with limited creative, pre-built places which now realize their cities are very badly designed for activity centralization can fix their issues relatively easily.
  4. Quit making LoTC a job. It shouldn't be one. It's for fun. Player retention of those who "quit later" happens either from this, drama, or boredom. Vortex currently makes LoTC into a job. There are ways to fix it -- and I know development team is trying, but also be sure to know when enough is enough. If you find a fix, awesome. If you don't, well- Vortex should suffer the same fate as Nexus.
  5. Root out bad, corrupt staff. I can say this with absolute confidence that I know at least twenty permanently active people who have quit, or nearly quit LoTC the past year due to toxic staff. Sometimes they report it, sometimes they don't. Your permanent playerbase is important to consider too, in fact most important.
  6. Listen to community polls, feedback, everything. You don't need to make everyone happy, you can't, but at least try to find common ground.

But the above has been harped on for a while. I think Treshure and Marb and the rest of Community Team are doing good work. Statistics are a really good thing to have and it is very telling of where the server needs to work, and is very telling of how well enjoyed the current server is. Old players suck it up and keep on walking, but new players won't. They don't have an attachment here.

 

Good stuff guys.

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