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On Safety


Llir
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2 minutes ago, Werew0lf said:

-snip-

Specifically what made me screenshot it was Joel's remark about the 'virtue signalling' about the situation, to me, it just seemed callous. Time and time again, I have seen some of the most heinous shit happen on this server, at one point it drove me to quit the server and **** off for months as I tried to deal with just how horrible some of the situations that unfold on this server. I just tire of it, I'm sick of the three years I've been on this server as I feel like my mental state degrades as admins just in general seem to be unable to handle situations that unfold on here. It ultimately just comes down to the fact that the community often doesn't have much way in the form of recourse when they get frustrated (with good reason) when situations like this happen, at most you can quit and join a 2-bit server (or just leave MC RP entirely), but LotC has that appeal due to it being a bigger server and long-standing, hence why I think most people often fight, and as said prior, LotC has great potential to become one of the greatest servers, but when constantly the safety of the community isn't maintained, be it due to predators roaming around or people so obsessed with LotC they'll commit federal crimes via doxxing or dossing, there is little reason for one to believe LotC can reach that full potential.

But to refocus as I said, not much is there to offer in the form of recourse when situations like this unfold, most of the time it just ends up to people complaining about how/why people aren't banned and trying to get the evidence, but from what I've seen in a recent situation (and not so recent), if you give people a slap, they will be far more cautious proceeding forward, and limit the chances for the 'hard evidence' to be recorded.  My anger in this situation isn't purely directed Joel, as honestly, Joel isn't the only admin who has made mistakes (which is only human, no one is perfect) and for better or worse, current admins and future admins will inherent their predecessors actions and works, flaws and all. 

I feel often times from my talks with some of the admins I've had, that they don't really care for LotC, that it is honestly nothing more than 'CV fodder', as being able to say you manage a community that has 300~ daily unique visitors is no small feat, and as a result, I feel more care is given to the 'image of LotC' than the state of the server itself, and ultimately why I just feel in a paradoxical manner, radical, disruptive response is the only way to help LotC, we only need to crawl through the forums and find these instances are not unique, and happen time and time again, which begs the question, if we can not trust admins to handle these cases properly, who are we to trust.

Now that ramble is out of the way, another reason why I did what I did was the treatment of one of my friends by Joel, I can't remember the full details, so I won't go try to delve into them, but it was utterly disgusting to hear and just annoys me, I feel referencing a shitty situation a player went through just because they pissed you off is just gross, months on end I watched this situation unfold, as I ******* begged and pleaded for a scumbag to be removed from the server for his deranged treatment of another individual. How is this meant to build confidence in any player if situations like these if they're ******* weaponized against the players. How am I meant to believe any promises of change is meant to happen when an admin told us they banned that individual, when in fact, they are self-banned. 

So the purpose of me sending that screenshot was not in an attempt to slander those in the Discord, most of you are still cool, and I understand being kicked if that is what actually happened. I will say, people in that Discord were doing their best to get rid of KP from the server. But for your question of if it was worth it, hopefully, I just want people to be safe in this community, I don't want people to go through terrible suffering over a minecraft server, and ultimately, I honestly believe the only way that can happen is with a clean slate and proper procedures established ASAP. Though really one can only hope.

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4 minutes ago, Venomous_Pup said:

Specifically what made me screenshot it was Joel's remark about the 'virtue signalling' about the situation, to me, it just seemed callous. Time and time again, I have seen some of the most heinous shit happen on this server, at one point it drove me to quit the server and **** off for months as I tried to deal with just how horrible some of the situations that unfold on this server. I just tire of it, I'm sick of the three years I've been on this server as I feel like my mental state degrades as admins just in general seem to be unable to handle situations that unfold on here. It ultimately just comes down to the fact that the community often doesn't have much way in the form of recourse when they get frustrated (with good reason) when situations like this happen, at most you can quit and join a 2-bit server (or just leave MC RP entirely), but LotC has that appeal due to it being a bigger server and long-standing, hence why I think most people often fight, and as said prior, LotC has great potential to become one of the greatest servers, but when constantly the safety of the community isn't maintained, be it due to predators roaming around or people so obsessed with LotC they'll commit federal crimes via doxxing or dossing, there is little reason for one to believe LotC can reach that full potential.

But to refocus as I said, not much is there to offer in the form of recourse when situations like this unfold, most of the time it just ends up to people complaining about how/why people aren't banned and trying to get the evidence, but from what I've seen in a recent situation (and not so recent), if you give people a slap, they will be far more cautious proceeding forward, and limit the chances for the 'hard evidence' to be recorded.  My anger in this situation isn't purely directed Joel, as honestly, Joel isn't the only admin who has made mistakes (which is only human, no one is perfect) and for better or worse, current admins and future admins will inherent their predecessors actions and works, flaws and all. 

I feel often times from my talks with some of the admins I've had, that they don't really care for LotC, that it is honestly nothing more than 'CV fodder', as being able to say you manage a community that has 300~ daily unique visitors is no small feat, and as a result, I feel more care is given to the 'image of LotC' than the state of the server itself, and ultimately why I just feel in a paradoxical manner, radical, disruptive response is the only way to help LotC, we only need to crawl through the forums and find these instances are not unique, and happen time and time again, which begs the question, if we can not trust admins to handle these cases properly, who are we to trust.

Now that ramble is out of the way, another reason why I did what I did was the treatment of one of my friends by Joel, I can't remember the full details, so I won't go try to delve into them, but it was utterly disgusting to hear and just annoys me, I feel referencing a shitty situation a player went through just because they pissed you off is just gross, months on end I watched this situation unfold, as I ******* begged and pleaded for a scumbag to be removed from the server for his deranged treatment of another individual. How is this meant to build confidence in any player if situations like these if they're ******* weaponized against the players. How am I meant to believe any promises of change is meant to happen when an admin told us they banned that individual, when in fact, they are self-banned. 

So the purpose of me sending that screenshot was not in an attempt to slander those in the Discord, most of you are still cool, and I understand being kicked if that is what actually happened. I will say, people in that Discord were doing their best to get rid of KP from the server. But for your question of if it was worth it, hopefully, I just want people to be safe in this community, I don't want people to go through terrible suffering over a minecraft server, and ultimately, I honestly believe the only way that can happen is with a clean slate and proper procedures established ASAP. Though really one can only hope.

 

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L

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8 minutes ago, ScreamingDingo said:

so you say you don't like me saying its virtue signalling, but then only 'expose' evidence because one of your friends got upset over me.

 

good job

Wait so it is evidence? or not?

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6 minutes ago, ScreamingDingo said:

 

 

so you say you don't like me saying its virtue signalling, but then only 'expose' evidence because one of your friends got upset over me.

 

good job

I feel as if you aren't talking professionally and need to step back from this conversation. Rather than arguing over this exposed message, Learn from it and Move on.

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10 minutes ago, TDubs said:

Wait so it is evidence? or not?


There was no evidence, this was me making a remark on saying the same "three" screenshots that have been evaluated by the administration on multiple fronts. More evidence has come forth since all these posts, which allow for us to follow through and deal with it. I've detailed my whole philosophy on banning, and now that more evidence has came to light that was not shown on the forums, we were able to follow through.

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7 minutes ago, ScreamingDingo said:

 I've detailed my whole philosophy on banning, 

I haven't read that can you summarize for me. :)

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2 minutes ago, ScreamingDingo said:

 

 

so you say you don't like me saying its virtue signalling, but then only 'expose' evidence because one of your friends got upset over me.

 

good job

Even if the person wasn't a friend, and I wasn't involved in the situation and only heard about, I would have lashed out all the same, I don't think it is fit for anyone to be in a position you are, and then rub in the face of a player a horrible situation they went through that was reported to admins. I honestly considered one of you the better admins up until recently, despite that not all the time our views aligning, despite some of my concerns about you. I don't know what it is, but ever since the whole basketball meme happened you've just lost it, I don't know what else I can say. Despite attempting to paraphrase my three years of frustration of watching friends or strangers alike having to go through these exact situations, to me only doing it because you happened to make a shitty remark to one of my friends (and let us be honest here, you haven't really done yourself many favors with the community over the past month). 

I honestly hope after you step down shit goes better for you, as I said people make mistakes, no one is entirely perfect, myself included as my messages are contradicting due my conflicting feelings, but LotC has that ability to draw out the worst in people, and ultimately, I don't believe in some cases it is out of malicious intentions, you had a good drive and at least had vision for the server, you got shit done. You at least in some form cared about the community imo. 

Idk what else to say or what to put, I just hope a productive step forward is taken, I just tire from all this drama (yes, by replying I acknowledge I am taking part in it, but it is hard to remain quiet after being so for about three years). I just want people to have fun.  

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1 hour ago, Venomous_Pup said:

Time and time again, I have seen some of the most heinous shit happen on this server, at one point it drove me to quit the server and **** off for months as I tried to deal with just how horrible some of the situations that unfold on this server.

 

why did you donate aether vip if you hate this place so much

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39 minutes ago, Ryloth said:

why did you donate aether vip if you hate this place so much

I assume same boat as me, donated and then over time the server's ugly head showed itself.

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Just now, Ryloth said:

 

why did you donate aether vip if you hate this place so much

I brought Aether back in 2019 roughly, before many of the issues I have with LotC mounted upon each other, you can donate to a server (or spend time and effort on it) and still have issues with what unfolds. LotC is a strange place, I've had fun and I know others have had fun on the server, and then on the other times I and others simply haven't, and when situations like these happen, a change in culture needs to happen, I think some complaints about things being swept under the rug is not admins intentionally sweeping things under the rug, as I was DMing Joel just before we were talking about how more resources need to be available, we need to teach players how to be safe online when engaging in online communities, we need to offer the various communities within LotC the ability to self-moderate properly, this should have been done years ago, so while I may have lashed out at Joel today, he is not the problem at the end of the day, this is an issue that has been with administration, as far as I can tell, since the forming of the server, it requires the team to come together and actually provide meaningful options and resources to the community so in future none of these situations ever occur to this scale, no more promises an actual change, hopefully with the safety procedures that comes to pass.

While I might hate what happens on LotC in general, be it missteps of staff, or despicable treatment players endure by horrible people, not talking about such only will foster a worse community for LotC in the long run, time and time again, players see certain situations that have happened and wonder why x hasn't been banned for y and just begins forming a toxic culture, as it just seems the most effective way to deal with these situations is thrown whatever you can to the forums to cause a storm that can not be ignored. Though I do not care much for LotC in general, I still care about those in the community, I still have plenty of friends on the server, and just remaining silent about any of this only puts them and others who are vulnerable at risk to predators, it is the duty of all to maintain a safe environment, to be mindful and offer support when required. 

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5 minutes ago, Venomous_Pup said:

I brought Aether back in 2019 roughly, before many of the issues I have with LotC mounted upon each other, you can donate to a server (or spend time and effort on it) and still have issues with what unfolds.

 

fair enough, i donated and then hated the server for a long while. not so much now, but could be better

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really disgusting responses to this thread btw

 

kp passed off his own history and conduct as vicious rumors from opportunistic parties; people believed him because of the blind retarded culture of political partisanship where ppl regularly harass & defame each other over minecraft loyalties. kp used discord admin to silence players who criticized him or spread info about his creepy behavior; staff continued to link the discord on the hub, players continue to use these discords to empower themselves. it is a matter of time before the next high profile abuser uses the exact systems tailored to protect kp to target people.

 

virtually everyone knew kp was a groomer months before any plan was set in motion to put nectorist on the throne. no one did anything because the only ppl who cared enough to spread info were little harassment cliques; the staff were trapped in this bizarre thought prison where minecraft abusers need due process before they are banned from the server, and somehow the only way to deal with a high profile sexpest on minecraft was to coup him through roleplay, even this was almost stonewalled by staff


feel like we said this the last time this happened, but there is no constitutional right to play on the minecraft server. if you have evidence someone may pose a threat to vulnerable members of our community and underage children, you should ban them. for the most part I'm sure this is already happening for most safety reports, just the ones for players in positions of power receive too much scrutiny and hesitation for the preponderance of evidence

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7 hours ago, sergisala said:

I get the critique but you also need to realize that is very easy to say because he was literally the heir to Oren and eventually the Emperor and, as such, he was a very relevant character in the roleplay. 

 

Sergi my guy shit was going down and when the rukio stuff came out he wasn't even close to being heir or anything. Why tf was he made heir and emperor if this shit was known? Not an excuse, being a relevant character in roleplay. Shouldn't be putting RP before dealing with known sexpests.

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