On Safety

[Ryloth 4312]

25 minutes ago, argonian said:

yeah dunno why ppl are acting like the occasional freak in a community that's had literally tens of thousands of members means we need to go mental

 

******* ID to play a blockgame server lmaooo

 

what's your grand solution then since the "just ban pedos" idea hasn't worked since the server's inception? hire a team of professional private investigators? with what money?

[argonian 12837]

7 minutes ago, Ryloth said:

 

what's your grand solution then since the "just ban pedos" idea hasn't worked since the server's inception? hire a team of professional private investigators? with what money?

the issue was pedos weren't getting banned

 

just ban erp, ban pedos as they come up, and face the fact that occasionally there'll be pedos on the server that we have to ban. we're a massive community. shit happens. why dont you suggest how we eliminate pedophiles from the real world too while we're at it. lock children indoors?

 

i mean we'd need professional investigators for your ******* ID card idea too. you do realise someone could just get a pic of literally anyone on the planet holding an ID? and the results of literally every single person on the server being doxed would lead to the server being shut the **** down if some angry admin ever leaked that

 

then there's also the fact that people can be creeps to adults too and we'd still need the same measures to deal with that anyway. sexually harass them, threaten them, dox them, coerce them, blackmail them. it's def happened before on the server

[Ryloth 4312]

1 hour ago, argonian said:

snip

 

idk if you even read what i suggested if you're implicating doxxing, there are mediums with which organizations utilize to handle these things lol. it's not even expensive. again as per usual patreon would be a great help. pipedream tho

 

everyone: "fix the pedo problem"
anyone: "ok 16/18+ only server"
everyone under 18: "wait no not like that i want my blockman rp!!!!"
> server proceeds to continue on its same trajectory and never changes

 

if you expect a safety team to work like it didn't work the last time, or if you expect the admin team's process to become any more productive, you're out of luck. nobody is going to like the 16-18+ only limitation. it's the nuclear option. unfortunately it also appears to be the only feasible option aside from shutting the server down for a near-100% success rate at solving this ordeal.

[Harold 3239]

This is some depressing shit

[hellsbelles 5]

i am entertained that some suggestions in this community are just ban the groomed victims. Because turning this place 18+ will completely remove pedophiles!

Creeps and groomers dont tend to be well hidden, just well protected. What on earth happened to the human trait of an instinct? y'know, the one thing besides thumbs that made us the apex predator and helped us survive all the shitshows the universe throws at our race? The fact people, staff alone, can see something completely off-putting about someone (from what i have been reading)- especially fully grown adults investing large quantities of time with young, young teens- and just shrug it off is a complete devolution of what our primal instinct was developed to do.

 

Your local outsiders advice? please stop pretending this was a lack of evidence thing- word has flown around the MCRP community, and people like myself who have little or absolutely zilch to do with this server can look at the evidence declared 'minimal' and deduce that the accused member was not someone we would want around our communities. The fact that its been said these behaviours have been ignored for years tells me this is a situation of friends in high places.

My word in regards to the personal aspects of the situation (who is friends with who, victims, etc) is completely zero, as i know remotely nobody- however it is with my own mistakes and knowledge that i implore people to trust their instincts when it comes to groomers a LOT more. Whilst we can go on and on telling people 'dont rp with them!!!' we should all know by know that advice is utopic and will never come to practice. People who are being manipulated don't tend to know it, and if they do, they wont just 'not fuel that fire', the safety of the victim, once its out of the individual's hands, is the job of the staff. 

 

Putting the weight on victims to handle predators is counter productive; people dont just accuse people of being creeps to 'ruin their lives!', in reality, that is such a rare scenario that has been re-sampled to a predator's benefits. If you hear something, trust it- doesn't mean drastic action and tell the world! but support and caution is enough to assist someone in that time.

LOTC- Stop accomodating, excusing and uplifting predators.

- A friendly, albeit disappointed outsider.

[Ryloth 4312]

2 hours ago, hellsbelles said:

i am entertained that some suggestions in this community are just ban the groomed victims.

 

think you got "raising the minimum age" mixed up. it's been very clearly outlined that they could re-apply later

everyone here is just regurgitating the same things that've been said every single time it's happened since the server's inception. your fix is not rattling the same chain. they've heard it a thousand times. your options are a minimum age change or a server shutdown for near-total protection of these players at risk.

 

let me throw a fast-ball like you have by insinuating the idea is to "ban groomed victims": by keeping younger people around, what are you doing it for? using them as bait to lure out the predatory people so they can be removed? pretty awful to think about.

 

but no of course, you don't mean it that way the same way we don't mean to "ban groomed victims". it's non-sensical to think in these emotionally-charged ways regarding such serious cases as these, and the most effective solution is what i've already preached. it's not like minecraft rp is productive to the life of a developing teenager anyway, speaking from personal experience as an adult, and i think many other adults here would agree

[argonian 12837]

8 hours ago, Ryloth said:

 

idk if you even read what i suggested if you're implicating doxxing, there are mediums with which organizations utilize to handle these things lol. it's not even expensive. again as per usual patreon would be a great help. pipedream tho

 

everyone: "fix the pedo problem"
anyone: "ok 16/18+ only server"
everyone under 18: "wait no not like that i want my blockman rp!!!!"

you enforce an age limit and ppl just lie. i was "16" when i joined; i was 10.

 

unless you go for that ridiculous ID idea and that's just an utter mess. "yeah just do a video call with an admin where you match your face to your ID; that's not a lot to ask". yeah no thanks. i don't trust the admins on here with my identity and you're stupid if you do.

 

8 hours ago, Ryloth said:

> server proceeds to continue on its same trajectory and never changes

 

if you expect a safety team to work like it didn't work the last time, or if you expect the admin team's process to become any more productive, you're out of luck. nobody is going to like the 16-18+ only limitation. it's the nuclear option. unfortunately it also appears to be the only feasible option aside from shutting the server down for a near-100% success rate at solving this ordeal.

the only thing that's not working is players continue to tolerate sex pestery in their communities which lets predators and perverts hide among the herd. fact of the matter is there were whole communities were it was running gags how certain players, important players, would engage in all sorts of fucked up shit, like rape erp, but that was all G because it's roleplay!!! and lo and behold, mr "i like to act out rape fantasies with people i cant be entirely sure the age of online" ends up with a TOS ban. wonder what for?

 

was that a fault of the staff? sure, partially. but i'd mostly blame communities who treat clear red flag behaviour as a joke and shield the perpetrators. blame the admin team all you want for not banning KP, but he was leader of the biggest playerbase on the server. pretty much all his government knew about the allegations, the people who put him in the line of succession knew, and the guy had a wide reputation for general sex pestery, and yet he was clearly protected by his own community.

 

look at the entire list from lark's post: Vardek, Ski King, Sky, Countessem, Decolamb, HappyShackles, Firegirl, FlamboyantRage, Leo. idk who firegirl and countessam were and idk what flam was like, but ik for a fact that the rest of them were prominent players all with reputations for fucked up erp shit, and they were all known for off-colour sexual remarks, but because that behaviour was normalised and made a joke, people ignored that. because they were popular, people ignored that.

 

it's pretty clear that the main issue is the community's willingness to accept absolutely fucked up behaviour. raising the age to 18, even if that were actually enforceable(pro-tip: it's not. if multi-billion dollars websites can't, how can we?), and killing off the playerbase wouldn't fix that either. just because a pedo doesn't have any kids around to harass doesn't mean i want to be around him. i'd rather they get banned either way. i dont want to be around non-pedo perverts either. and the only way of fixing that involves a full ban against erp in the rules and the community resolving to not put up with it. and before anyone says "u cant regulate what people do in their discords!!!", if we can ban people for slurs and even just insults in private discords, we can ban them from erp. tyvm

 

end rant

[drfate786 1639]

16 hours ago, ᴜɴᴡɪʟʟɪɴɢʟʏ said:

only saying that bc there are ppl who are advocating for banning all minors on LOTC but can't actually propose a method of moderation when people point out how flawed the idea is. the only way this could actually be done is if we asked people to dox themselves by showing either their face or ID. some of the most malicious people on LOTC have been on staff and I'm sure we can both agree the normal staff member could not be trusted with that power

if the solution you propose isn't something that can be moderated any better than the problem itself, it isnt a solution

 

"if the solution you propose isn't something that can be moderated any better than the problem itself, it isnt a solution"

 

 

Ban the minors, ban the sex pests. If they infiltrate they will have to do so knowing that if they are found out they'll just be banned without question. This community isn't for kids for the same reason a game with a shit ton of blood, gore, violence sex and drugs isn't, stop pretending like it is.

 

You also have to wonder how many people have lied about their age to potential groomers and willfully engaged in the behavior themselves. Half of the banned "groomers" in this community were lied to about their victim's ages and I've witnessed the logs to know it, this doesn't justify what they did but it gives you a good idea as to the types of people this community attracts when you have minors willfully lying about their age to engage in ERP.

11 hours ago, Ryloth said:

 

what's your grand solution then since the "just ban pedos" idea hasn't worked since the server's inception? hire a team of professional private investigators? with what money?

 

They can just steal their parent's or sibling's ID. You don't need ID to access illicit sites on the internet, they simply assume you're 18+. Once a community declares itself 18+ it has no responsibility to make sure its members are over the age of 18 as it's simply assumed. The only responsibility is to ban them when you know for a fact that they are not 18.

 

 

[argonian 12837]

14 minutes ago, drfate786 said:

They can just steal their parent's or sibling's ID. You don't need ID to access illicit sites on the internet, they simply assume you're 18+. Once a community declares itself 18+ it has no responsibility to make sure its members are over the age of 18 as it's simply assumed. The only responsibility is to ban them when you know for a fact that they are not 18.

The legal stuff isn't really relevant here. It's not LOTC getting sued that we're worried about*. The goal is to stop kids getting groomed and harassed. And they're under the same risk of that if they're playing here no matter what the age requirement is.

 

*even if it was it wouldn't be an issue because Discord is the medium where this grooming actually takes place.

[drfate786 1639]

32 minutes ago, argonian said:

The legal stuff isn't really relevant here. It's not LOTC getting sued that we're worried about*. The goal is to stop kids getting groomed and harassed. And they're under the same risk of that if they're playing here no matter what the age requirement is.

 

*even if it was it wouldn't be an issue because Discord is the medium where this grooming actually takes place.

 

The thing is, this community takes abuse to the point where it's masochistic. All the while, the lot of you engage in obsessively compulsive behaviors and seem to absolutely abhor when things don't go your way. 

 

You can't control this, stop worrying about it.. Stop trying to control what other people do. Stop repeating the same cyclical behaviors.

 

What I'm about to say is something that will shock all of you. Something many community members should have been told a long long time ago, especially when it comes down to issues as sensitive as these.

 

You have no control.

Your parents could get run over by a car tomorrow, you'd have no control.

 

9/11 could happen again, you'd have no control.

 

Someone could break into your house tomorrow, you'd have no control.

 

Covid-19 could mutate, your vaccines could be useless against it.. You'd have no control.

 

Lastly, LoTC's administration could be given reliable information on predators for months, years, etc and choose to ignore it. They could keep these groomers within the community and there's nothing you can do about it. They don't give a shit and quite frankly they're right not to, you won't do anything because you simply can't. 

 

Let's say for a second, that the staff actively seeks to abuse the community and do as they please. What CAN you do? How would you stop them? How do you go to Telanir, Llir, Tythus, etc and force them to cease or fix your concerns? You can't. You have no control, none of you do. The only thing you can do is to stop giving a shit, quit LoTC and just never come back. Though, ya'll just keep coming back and proving their point even more.

 

Stop worrying about shit you can't control. You don't control the actions of these groomers, you can't control what minors do. The community needs to stop worrying about these issues and deal with their own issues that they can control and which does effect them.

 

Edit: The staff doesn't give a shit, they'll write an apology post and let it repeat again six months from now. They have no control over this just as you have no control over them.

 

Edited December 8, 2021 by drfate786

[Diogen 3069]

43 minutes ago, drfate786 said:

Edit: The staff doesn't give a shit, they'll write an apology post and let it repeat again six months from now. They have no control over this just as you have no control over them.

XD
ok bro

[Ryloth 4312]

1 hour ago, drfate786 said:

They can just steal their parent's or sibling's ID. You don't need ID to access illicit sites on the internet, they simply assume you're 18+. Once a community declares itself 18+ it has no responsibility to make sure its members are over the age of 18 as it's simply assumed. The only responsibility is to ban them when you know for a fact that they are not 18.

 

ID thing is just a point to provide people that wanting desire for "control" when they don't have any and never have, an expensive one as well that'd require a whole ToS rewrite and a subscription service costing no less than $600/mo for the server given there's on average 300 apps per month, and every ID check by company third party is $2

doable with a patreon, not doable off of VIP. but again, just an example to let people feel like they're in control, and not entirely necessary

[drfate786 1639]

36 minutes ago, Ryloth said:

 

ID thing is just a point to provide people that wanting desire for "control" when they don't have any and never have, an expensive one as well that'd require a whole ToS rewrite and a subscription service costing no less than $600/mo for the server given there's on average 300 apps per month, and every ID check by company third party is $2

doable with a patreon, not doable off of VIP. but again, just an example to let people feel like they're in control, and not entirely necessary

 

Pretty much, the community wants control and stability when it's not something they can ever have. Rather then admit this and leave, they want to hold onto the belief that they're in control or have some form of authority over the head administration (and NL's) that they simply don't have. The community and what the community thinks doesn't matter, all that matters is what those who have gamed the system want because they've manipulated it towards their favor.

 

You can't break a window without PRO approval.

 

NL's can no longer be PK'ed through RP as they can simply refuse to PK. 

 

MA's, TA's and all magic related lore is now strictly locked behind applications. Applications which are gated by the LT and which they can deny without reason, simply hating you is enough.

 

Events are given to nations, for nations. They aren't made or designed for world building.

 

I can keep going but the fact is that those in charge have realized that they can do as they please and the community is entirely powerless to stop them. The only act that can be taken, the only thing that will work against this type of abuse.. The only thing YOU control..

 

Is the ability to stop playing LoTC.

 

Edited December 8, 2021 by drfate786

[Gridlock 789]

I'm so happy that after all these years, I can always come back to the forums to find drfate rambling like some lord of the underworld.

[JustMeMorgan 1000]

Flash over to the fact I actively mention to the staff team of a case that was simply dismissed 3 years ago of which the player could have been outright permabanned for pedophilic and predatory behaviour :/

 

 

(Cropped the msg to hide the player's name)

One of the reasons I went on my Hiatus is because I was sick of the fact I was ACTIVELY trying to bring attention to someone who literally admitted to the fact they wish that it was allowed to **** Children on the server, had Predatory behaviour towards players, harassed and trolled and caused many issues to the point that when it came around to reporting the first issue (the fact the player literally said they wished it was allowed to **** kids on the server) I had a Swarm of PM's from other players asking to join in as they have all been affected, some on a sexual basis.

 

If there is Safety, then ******* present it. Release a list of known players who have commit sexual offenses, give clarity. If a player has been banned for Pedophilia make it ******* clear? make a subtopic on permanently banned players and why, if they're a predator make it ******* clear, show all the evidence and make it so the whole playerbase can see the information.