CRP Default, Consented Conflict, and the future of conflict

[wowj 9747]

20th poll on this topic

[Jentos 9422]

The issue of choice appears democratic, but its important to remain aware. While CRP has its benefits for those posessing magic or CA's, its far more versatile in what it produces and will give more depth than a pvp 1v1. On the contrary, defender default places power in the hands of a skilled few, whose interests we can all understand from the get go. PVP is a means of rapid immediate victory. Nothing more. It leaves no space for depth, focus - let alone argument, but devolves it into mindless clicks.

 

I like pvp. I love it. But I believe wholeheartedly that the CRP system we see today has created some of the best RP encounters out there, and player-led eventlines. If not for it, the series of events surrounding Gashadokuro would simply never have occured - or at least, would have been robbed of narrative and written depth. 

 

LOTC is not clicked. It is written. And when it comes to any sort of narrative, the keyboard is mightier than the mouse. 

 

12 minutes ago, wolfdwg said:

100%

My opinion is that defender default gave the option of choice. If I were to have little time, say an hour before work, and I were to be rolled up on (this never happens) I want the choice to pvp to defend my minecraft pixels and rp dignity. If I the pvp goon go and rob a crp enjoyer and they want to crp then that's what will happen.

Let players who are initiated on in conflict scenarios choose their preferred methods.

 

My argument for narrative goes beyond the individual player, but sees LOTC as a greater whole. If indeed, you are never rolled up on, then the issue of pvp or crp is simply non existent. The choice of PVP is clear, cut, and simple - but its abuse only renders more harm than good precisely because it reduces the RP to near null. 

 

Bad CRP isn't so much a statement on CRP as a whole - its moreso a statement on the individual, or the individual and their relationship with others. It comes to us to correct its culture. 

 

Perhaps the true question is how PVP should find its place on the server. Its historic importance on the server is undeniable but so are its negative consequences. 

[Jihnyny 5233]

i dont understand why people are against defender default. Half, if not most people who hate against it dont even cause conflict (on their own side).

Do ya'll not understand that if you were banditted by someone you could still call CRP? If you're worried abiout PvPers, you should'nt be, yall log off asap when you see them anyway

and no respectful group (such as a nation, guild or clan) is going to call PvP on a CRP group like darkspawn ('less yall did something to piss them off or theyre just a group of goons, but then again, the crp rules will still default it to PvP after an hour of complaining)

[sapphic_spidy 1089]

if this server ever became pvp default i would quit BAHA glad its not public opinion

[Rebellionlife 443]

The appeal to me with lotc has always been player stories. Combat is part of that story, and without crp default I feel like that story would not hold enough significance personally. I am bias, I currently play a CA with magic and magical items that hold a lot of meaning and I can't express what I am in pvp. But with that this is a fantasy magic roleplay, and without crp default these moments wouldn't happen as often. However, I'd like to pull up THERE IS CHOICES FOR DEFENDERS. No one has mentioned it, but defenders do have a choice of crp OR pvp if it's a large group OR if it's a small group they can mechanically flee. So, defenders actually have some choices to make its not CRP ONLY. The server which is a roleplay server simply caters the system to be mostly crp friendly to keep the story going! But there still are some other options. I encourage people who are in combat to do crp unless it's a rather large group. CRP can be quite fun and engaging especially with fun groups and friends! Yes, sadly there will be some bad people who powergame and whine etc. But you could say the same to pvp with cheaters because that's happened before to. Maybe a better system to deal with people who constantly complain in looc during crp but I don't think changing the default is a good idea atm. 

 

-Signed, a spook who lost a victim to mechanic fleeing

[sapphic_spidy 1089]

1 hour ago, Asutto said:

if you're voting for crp default you fall into one of two categories (or both)

 

1) you have a magic/magical item and you want to flex it

 

2) you're one of the people that make crp experiences unbearable because you immediately go into ooc to explain why you're right and why the ferryman attacking you is wrong

Secret third option: you're on a macbook trackpad and cant pvp bc no matter how good the server connection is, You Will Lag

[wolfdwg 2677]

55 minutes ago, Jentos said:

The issue of choice appears democratic, but its important to remain aware. While CRP has its benefits for those posessing magic or CA's, its far more versatile in what it produces and will give more depth than a pvp 1v1. On the contrary, defender default places power in the hands of a skilled few, whose interests we can all understand from the get go. PVP is a means of rapid immediate victory. Nothing more. It leaves no space for depth, focus - let alone argument, but devolves it into mindless clicks.

 

I like pvp. I love it. But I believe wholeheartedly that the CRP system we see today has created some of the best RP encounters out there, and player-led eventlines. If not for it, the series of events surrounding Gashadokuro would simply never have occured - or at least, would have been robbed of narrative and written depth. 

 

LOTC is not clicked. It is written. And when it comes to any sort of narrative, the keyboard is mightier than the mouse. 

 

 

My argument for narrative goes beyond the individual player, but sees LOTC as a greater whole. If indeed, you are never rolled up on, then the issue of pvp or crp is simply non existent. The choice of PVP is clear, cut, and simple - but its abuse only renders more harm than good precisely because it reduces the RP to near null. 

 

Bad CRP isn't so much a statement on CRP as a whole - its moreso a statement on the individual, or the individual and their relationship with others. It comes to us to correct its culture. 

 

Perhaps the true question is how PVP should find its place on the server. Its historic importance on the server is undeniable but so are its negative consequences. 

My gripe with crp is the fundamental lack of a timed system for emotes. Any crp that happens outside of a controlled environment between two mutually consenting parties devolves into frothing looc arguments that require mod intervention. Im glad you are having fun jentos, but I have yet to have an actual enjoyable crp encounter outside of a ST event.

 

I am not for pvp default in the slightest means. However in the realistic lively scenarios I have dealt with, I don't think solely crp is viable. 
 

Your argument from pvp scenarios being uneventful and boring is personal to your opinion which is not shared with me. You have your own enjoyment I have mine. Some of my most memorable events are from raids that have shaped the story of humanity and the geopolitics at large. But as I find the times changing to this carebear mindset perhaps this truly is not a place for me anymore. Nor is it welcoming to those who have a view to more simpler means.

[iris1612 1780]

just a thought: if every single CRP encounter you're in devolves into OOC arguments and conflict, maybe the problem isn't CRP rules. Maybe the problem is you.

[Cheese 8874]

3 minutes ago, iris1612 said:

just a thought: if every single CRP encounter you're in devolves into OOC arguments and conflict, maybe the problem isn't CRP rules. Maybe the problem is you.

Maybe it's both because people abuse loopholes and try to lawyer their way out of everything (typically I find that it is the person starting the argument who abuses loopholes)

[christman 3529]

Why are people so adverse to roleplaying on a roleplay server
> "I don't have a magic!!! Everyone is so much stronger than me!!" Go roleplay about that? Maybe you don't have the tools to take down these "ridiculously OP CA/MA/FA's" because everytime you interact with something you *draws sword* (pvp?)

 

Mage killer is a totally viable class if you're not interested in actively picking up any MA's. Thanhium, aurum, auric oil are all totally possible to get your little hands on. With a few ranged weapons & some friends you can probably dome most mage's you come upon. 

 

Literally what's the point if you're a dragon man, or a powerful mage, if some Haense peasant with a trident can just magically harness the ability to slaughter you easily.

 

also ... if you don't want to interact with magic AT ALL ... just don't. go do tea roleplay in a royal court or tend a tavern. nobody is forcing you to go and fight spooks. Even then, if by some magical chance you get STOPPED ON THE ROAD!!!! and BANDITED!!! literally nothing bad will happen to you if you just die and respawn at ct nobody gaf

 

magic players who just want to give into powerfantasy and say rule lawyer should also shut up 

 

and if u want 2 pvp go to hypixel and play bedwars i don't know 

[wolfdwg 2677]

1 minute ago, iris1612 said:

just a thought: if every single CRP encounter you're in devolves into OOC arguments and conflict, maybe the problem isn't CRP rules. Maybe the problem is you.

I dont know what this even is suppose to mean. Its comments like this passive aggressiveness with their head in a shell stance that prevents actual productive conversation.

If you were to actually interact with people outside of a niche grouping of ooc acquainted ppl and be an antag to someone you’ve no affiliation with, you’d likely find the same issues on a day to day. Maybe not all but they will be there. The amount of “Can we not do this,” in looc from simply walking up on a guy is getting to the point where its expected. And even getting them to interact to conflict becomes a game of clipping a cat’s claws. Painful and drawn out. 
 

4 minutes ago, Cheese said:

Maybe it's both because people abuse loopholes and try to lawyer their way out of everything (typically I find that it is the person starting the argument who abuses loopholes)

As cheese states. The view is entirely cultural and subjective to one’s experiences.

[Rebellionlife 443]

2 minutes ago, wolfdwg said:

I dont know what this even is suppose to mean. Its comments like this passive aggressiveness with their head in a shell stance that prevents actual productive conversation.

If you were to actually interact with people outside of a niche grouping of ooc acquainted ppl and be an antag to someone you’ve no affiliation with, you’d likely find the same issues on a day to day. Maybe not all but they will be there. The amount of “Can we not do this,” in looc from simply walking up on a guy is getting to the point where its expected. And even getting them to interact to conflict becomes a game of clipping a cat’s claws. Painful and drawn out. 
 

As cheese states. The view is entirely cultural and subjective to one’s experiences.

 

As someone who just finished a raid with like 8v10ish with literally zero ooc drama and issues and other times literally had to call mods and take hours upon hours of dealing with ooc drama it really depends on the group and ones experience! But at the end of the day this is a discussion on what should be default, and having a pvp default is not going to go well for a roleplay server. 

[Unwillingly 18096]

I think I'd be more forthcoming to CRP if I knew that almost every encounter wasn't going to be a 3-6 hour slog, bc not everyone has the time or energy for that. if you're dealing with a crp shitter, you're stuck with them for hours regardless of the circumstances or number of participants because they can take as long as they want to emote, stall, or ask silly pedantic questions in looc. if you're dealing with a pvp shitter, you'd only have to deal with them for a few seconds or an hour at most for larger-scale pvp. and you can just be on with your night in relatively little time after that. it's silly to weaponize peoples' reluctance to do 8 ******* hour long combat sessions against them

my reservations about defender default/pvp are that I think it's fine if you want pvp because you're short on time or don't want to do multi-hour long CRP. but if you just want to click people to death bc you otherwise wouldn't be able to win in CRP it's cringe. I don't know how much I agree with the "roleplay server so we are here to write not click" sentiment but I otherwise agree with what christman said above in how some players' reasonings for not wanting to CRP are so silly

[Rebellionlife 443]

1 minute ago, Unwillingly said:

I think I'd be more forthcoming to CRP if I knew that almost every encounter wasn't going to be a 3-6 hour slog, bc not everyone has the time or energy for that. if you're dealing with a crp shitter, you're stuck with them for hours regardless of the circumstances or number of participants because they can take as long as they want to emote, stall, or ask silly pedantic questions in looc. if you're dealing with a pvp shitter, you'd only have to deal with them for a few seconds or an hour at most for larger-scale pvp. and you can just be on with your night in relatively little time after that. it's silly to weaponize peoples' reluctance to do 8 ******* hour long combat sessions against them

my reservations about defender default/pvp are that I think it's fine if you want pvp because you're short on time or don't want to do multi-hour long CRP. but if you just want to click people to death bc you otherwise wouldn't be able to win in CRP it's cringe. I don't know how much I agree with the "roleplay server so we are here to write not click" sentiment but I otherwise agree with what christman said above

 

TBF If you did not have a lot of time left in the day and someone starts combat, like I previously said in a reply there is mechanic fleeing defender choice. So you won't spend 3-6 hours. 

[wolfdwg 2677]

5 minutes ago, christman said:

Why are people so adverse to roleplaying on a roleplay server
> "I don't have a magic!!! Everyone is so much stronger than me!!" Go roleplay about that? Maybe you don't have the tools to take down these "ridiculously OP CA/MA/FA's" because everytime you interact with something you *draws sword* (pvp?)

 

Mage killer is a totally viable class if you're not interested in actively picking up any MA's. Thanhium, aurum, auric oil are all totally possible to get your little hands on. With a few ranged weapons & some friends you can probably dome most mage's you come upon. 

 

Literally what's the point if you're a dragon man, or a powerful mage, if some Haense peasant with a trident can just magically harness the ability to slaughter you easily.

 

also ... if you don't want to interact with magic AT ALL ... just don't. go do tea roleplay in a royal court or tend a tavern. nobody is forcing you to go and fight spooks. Even then, if by some magical chance you get STOPPED ON THE ROAD!!!! and BANDITED!!! literally nothing bad will happen to you if you just die and respawn at ct nobody gaf

 

magic players who just want to give into powerfantasy and say rule lawyer should also shut up 

 

and if u want 2 pvp go to hypixel and play bedwars i don't know 

I think there’s a black sheep answer people are ignoring. Culturally people want to win their conflict encounters be it pvp or crp. In the present, at least in my experience, people will make whatever combat form uncomfortable and unpleasant if they are at fundamental odds. Hence you see raids have all but died out due to the raided party simply running into tunnels and waiting out the timer, or simply logging out to avoid interactions. It happens inversely with CRP too in which it might simply be worded to a point where conflict will drag on for literal irl hours.

 

The last statement is simply an abhorrent exposure to your personal opinions. Telling people to go off server to enjoy a median simply is unhealthy for population in the long run. Rather we should have a conversation regarding why we simply cannot have the right to chose if aggressed upon.

 

4 minutes ago, Rebellionlife said:

 

As someone who just finished a raid with like 8v10ish with literally zero ooc drama and issues and other times literally had to call mods and take hours upon hours of dealing with ooc drama it really depends on the group and ones experience! But at the end of the day this is a discussion on what should be default, and having a pvp default is not going to go well for a roleplay server. 

Not once in my statements have I advocated for pvp default. You misunderstand my meaning. I simply want people to the right to choose how they interact with conflict when aggressed upon. Im glad you had a cool and fun crp raid. I just personally don’t enjoy reading through mashed lines of paragraphs if this were a non agreed upon conflict scenario that was more organic, i.e. an out of the blue raid on a nation capital by the usual suspects of teal bandannas.

5 minutes ago, Rebellionlife said:

 

TBF If you did not have a lot of time left in the day and someone starts combat, like I previously said in a reply there is mechanic fleeing defender choice. So you won't spend 3-6 hours. 

But what if they want to fight back, but in a quick manner that allows for their enjoyment to be sated? Mech flee means the fleeing party essentially has to kite away, which might be fun for some but not all.