Addressing Metaplay

[Venomous_Pup 2978]

19 minutes ago, sergisala said:

So, I humbly implore the Administration Team that, if you truly seek to instate metaplay rules to make the server a better place, please make sure that such rules are clear and predictable, especially considering that such rules have never been instated in the server before and things like planning roleplay events in discord have been done in the server since 2011

https://www.lordofthecraft.net/rules/
https://www.lordofthecraft.net/mission/

 

https://www.lordofthecraft.net/roleplay-leadership/

Planning roleplay events in Discord isn't the problem, the problem is people think it is their god-given right to absolutely dunk on their "opps" without restraint and do everything in their IRP and OOC power to do so over a Minecraft RP server.  If the first thing you think on this server when making any action in RP isn't either "What would my character do?" or "What would make for more fun RP for everyone?" you seriously need to consider what you are doing here. This whole thing works based on cooperation, now that doesn't mean we have to be friends with everyone or like each other, but if you can't be at least cordial when the moment calls for it, and decide to actively make the server worse for someone via manipulation of events and people to ensure your bubble is protected while ruining other peoples' experience on the server I can't imagine the staff will tolerate such behavior long. Regardless, admins can only write so many times, "Please don't actively be horrible to people on this server, even if you are going against them IRP." 

 

41 minutes ago, sergisala said:

For example, I think it would be a good idea to have the Moderation Team be the team who handle metaplay reports rather than having them be admin bans and to firstly contact the reported player to tell such player that the Staff has detected that they may have committed a metaplay conduct and demand them to immediately cease in their conduct, under the threat of a ban. That way, the player will most likely immediately stop whatever OOC planning that such player may have been doing and a ban will most likely not be necessary in such situations.

I think this is a bad idea because what will happen is they'll just go completely underground and remove whoever they think did it or just utterly wipe the slate clean and carry on like nothing happened. From what I have seen recently it'd be better if the people were just completely removed because they don't want to change, they don't see a problem in their actions when they trash people and call them slurs, when they try to manipulate RP so it doesn't cause any harm to their group/friends. When this kind of behaviour goes on, it seriously pushes away good Roleplayers from the server because imagine wasting your time in Roleplay gathering evidence of certain things and possibly putting your character at risk and you get foiled because some guy who barely plays the server in any real way hops Discords to make sure everything is chill and to ignore whatever was happening and then basically getting OOCly blacklisted from related Nation by way of them either metagaming and killing you or just actively ignoring you on all characters. It genuinely makes the server worse when you treat it like a discount CK game rather than enjoying spending time Roleplaying with actual people who've spend time and effort into trying to make interesting characters you can make cool narratives with. 

Telanir is unironically right when he says you're playing the server wrong if you treat it as a game to win.

[L1veLaughLich 425]

Nothing ever happens..

[argonian 14254]

Rules that can't be enforced fairly and predictably should not exist.

 

Everyone knows that nations cannot be run solely in-game and that none are. Metaplay rules seem to exist solely so that the Admins can hand out a ban-wave any time anything might actually happen.

 

Maybe the irony will occur to them next time they open a War Chat and realise they're literally requesting the NLs involved engage in metaplay with them.

[sergisala 3451]

16 minutes ago, Venomous_Pup said:

From what I have seen recently it'd be better if the people were just completely removed because they don't want to change, they don't see a problem in their actions when they trash people and call them slurs, when they try to manipulate RP so it doesn't cause any harm to their group/friends

Well, I believe that people can actually change in a positive manner because during my time in the server I have seen multiple examples of players who originally had lots of problems with the server rules or the Staff but that, later on, they came back with a good attitude and rapidly changed their culture as players and no longer had any Moderation or Administration issue.

[Carson 1165]

Here’s my opinion. The rules seem very vague even still, but I agree with the core principles.

 

I do not agree with banning people by association for meta play, however, because while I could be wrong, that did not appear to be a rule beforehand. How can you establish that someone knowingly and willfully declined to snitch on meta play? For example, I could be in a discord I barely check where people are meta playing. If I do not check that discord, how can I know they are meta playing? On the surface, it would seem in that case that I’m ‘tolerating’ it just by proximity. This seems unfair.

[Venomous_Pup 2978]

36 minutes ago, sergisala said:

Well, I believe that people can actually change in a positive manner because during my time in the server I have seen multiple examples of players who originally had lots of problems with the server rules or the Staff but that, later on, they came back with a good attitude and rapidly changed their culture as players and no longer had any Moderation or Administration issue.

It is case by case basis, I wasn't implying it is impossible for everyone to change, but if admins literally get enough evidence that someone/someones have been engaging in conduct that is degrading of the experience they shouldn't get a slap on the wrist by a warning. Sometimes the ban is the wake up call that you need to hold yourself and others to a higher standard and other times the individual just blames every one else but themselves for engaging in dumb stuff or just blatantly don't acknowledge it, make a convincing enough appeal and do the same thing again. I think asking moderation to basically carry the entire server conduct by way of they need to list out every single nuance of the rules is foolish, even more so when you have people that will push everything to the limit.

 

This isn't just a game, its a community, and looking at the sub-communities that often engage in this kind of stuff they usually self-implode on one another, after letting really terrible behavior slide because they're friends or it gives them benefit IRP/OOCly is sickening. We as players also need to be maintaining the community, we need to be calling out bad behavior before it gets worse, and if you get backlash for telling people "don't be bad" then those people aren't really worth your time anyway from what I've dealt with personally. 

[CHARLES THE BALD 2615]

2 hours ago, sergisala said:

Well, I believe that people can actually change in a positive manner because during my time in the server I have seen multiple examples of players who originally had lots of problems with the server rules or the Staff but that, later on, they came back with a good attitude and rapidly changed their culture as players and no longer had any Moderation or Administration issue.

Thank you for your support !

[sergisala 3451]

1 hour ago, Carson said:

I do not agree with banning people by association for meta play, however, because while I could be wrong, that did not appear to be a rule beforehand

Yes, I think that metaplay by association is completely senseless because, for example, a player could be added without their consent or knowledge to a metaplay discord chat and be banned for it despite not even being aware of it, as already occurred to a certain roleplay leader.

[Kaiser 2347]

Rip bozos I guess

Also, if you legitimately don't understand what is/isn't against the rules and cry "Rules are too vague!" I'm putting money on you in the next inevitable ban wave. Every monkey that does this stupid stuff tries to lawyer their way out of it. "Nuh uh I didn't discord-meta, I used SKYPE" level of stupid ass arguments. 

[Zhikarta 4064]

womp womp make a Dark Elf

[JesterMilk 247]

3 hours ago, Venomous_Pup said:

I think this is a bad idea because what will happen is they'll just go completely underground and remove whoever they think did it or just utterly wipe the slate clean and carry on like nothing happened. From what I have seen recently it'd be better if the people were just completely removed because they don't want to change

I believe this is a bad way to look at it, for most anything there is a warning system and I think at least the CHANCE for them to improve would be good, change is a part of life and EVERYONE changes. Meta-play does harm the server but it isn't the absolute worst thing someone can do. If we are really worried about the state and quality of the server then we should discourage those cowboy bandit groups as well.

I'm not a mod tho.

[Cobbler 809]

23 minutes ago, Kaiser said:

Rip bozos I guess

Also, if you legitimately don't understand what is/isn't against the rules and cry "Rules are too vague!" I'm putting money on you in the next inevitable ban wave. Every monkey that does this stupid stuff tries to lawyer their way out of it. "Nuh uh I didn't discord-meta, I used SKYPE" level of stupid ass arguments. 

Bad take tbh

 

The rules are vague, they’re supposed to be vague. It allows the administration to enforce a larger scale of “metaplay”. It’s so people can’t game the system.

 

It’s a fine argument to make that “everyone knows what metaplay looks like..” but then when it’s only enforced when it comes to things leading up to the war system it leaves a sour taste in people’s mouths.

 

~From my perspective~

LOTC from a nation/group perspective is a snowball game, the larger groups will coast off of their size which allows them host large events that are arguably more fun/enjoyable than events hosted by smaller nations.

 

All of the largest groups today benefited from recruiting outside their circle and breaking the metaplay ruleset. While this ruleset was created in-result of that, it’s in-turn decimated the ability for smaller nations to snowball outside of the year(s) long grind of events, CT application messaging, and many hours of work that goes into ensuring that your newly “recruited” player doesn’t leave to join a larger nation because they can host larger events.

 

”Why does it take metaplay to take down the larger groups?” Since the dawn of lotc, a certain level of metaplay is used to push a needle in a direction to cause events. Everything from making a war discord to grabbing your friend that you play league with is metaplay, it just depends what you decide to enforce. I was personally recruited from Badlion(A PvP server) to come and war Oren way back when. Since then I’m now known as a someone who stood with Oren until they fell.

 

Dynamic nation events don’t happen without a level of what’s considered metaplay. If it’s the administration’s perspective to keep the nations as they exist now then by all means keep em coming.

[Narthok 10416]

I am interested to see how wars are supposed to play out in light of this new approach to meta

[chaotikal 2392]

13 hours ago, Wyrvun said:

My only worry, even as a non-pvper, what does recruiting off of pvp servers mean in the long term? Obviously it is clear here, and I agree it ought to be enforced if that's the president we're setting.

How do you plan to differentiate between people joining the server during war time and getting roped into a war, and people joining specifically for pvp until after the war is concluded? 

If I'm staff and I'm on your side while you recruit, then its okay!

If I'm staff and I'm not on your side, then its NOT ok!

[monkeypoacher 8054]

Road to 500 lol. Someone mass recruits for your slowly dying roleplay server and all of their friends get banned for "metaplay," inadvertently preserving the 1,000 year status quo of quasi-OOC diplomacy mediated by google docs and "rp meetings" where everyone is tabbed out in discord.

 

There are no heroes left in Craft.