[Amendment] Naztherak Disconnection

[lemonke 6014]

11 minutes ago, Venomous_Pup said:

Kill all toxposters. The only thing I would suggest is maybe a time gate/cost of some description to try to deal with it being used in """BaD fAiTh""".

The problem is if it wasn't, then the complaints would literally be "Oh no but only a small amount of people have access to the ritual and could control the magic!!!" blah blah. There will never be a perfect system because everyone has a different idea of what that system is. I think if a group of Naz decide to group together and literally dominate the rest of them use this of a means of control, then good. Just as easily a Naz in bad faith could connect as many people as they could to have literal army of basically trash mob meat shield to protect themselves from DC.

It isn't a small group that has it, and I'm not talking about the Black church. Yes, if the "control part" happens and it's genuine roleplay like Gashadokuro's, which, by the way, was the only real Naz who managed to unite people without having much of a DC war. Go figure!!! As much as I don't like Gashadokuro's stuff, he was threatening enough, and David had a good way to inspire hype.

 

I don't mind that, if it's all roleplay. I just think a second chance isn't bad, and a DC ritual like this without any cost is bad. Yes, blah blah blah; there is no perfect system. Still, I don't know why making it any worse is better. Especially considering Naztherak has been going fine, unlike necromancy or the like.

[Venomous_Pup 2978]

3 minutes ago, lemonke said:

It isn't a small group that has it, and I'm not talking about the black church. Yes, if the "control part" happens and it's genuine roleplay like Gashadokuro's, which by the way, was the only real Naz who managed to unite people without having much of a dc war. Go figure!!!

 

I don't mind that, if it's all roleplay. I just think a second chance isn't bad, and a dc ritual like this without any cost is bad. Yes, blah blah blah; there is no perfect system. Still, I don't know why making it any worse is better. Especially considering Naztherak has been going fine unlike necromancy or the like.

Yeah, so I was saying IF the ritual wasn't spread out, then that would be the complaint. While there aren't as many problematic Naz as something like Necro it is simply future-proofing the magic in case something similar happens in the future, rather than waiting for the problem to happen that can cause issues for the magic.

[lemonke 6014]

9 minutes ago, Venomous_Pup said:

Yeah, so I was saying IF the ritual wasn't spread out, then that would be the complaint. While there aren't as many problematic Naz as something like Necro it is simply future-proofing the magic in case something similar happens in the future, rather than waiting for the problem to happen that can cause issues for the magic.

I do not think Naz or any other magic will get to that level. But if you guys think that's the best course to achieve something, go on!

 

I am just sharing my opinion from what I have seen so far. My issue isn't just because it is spread.

[Jaslaw 602]

Honestly this Amendment just sounds like a pain in general. If a lot of people agree someone is causing trouble then disconecting them two times shouldn't be an issue too so I don't see reason behind trying to ''deal'' with people you don't like permanently

 

Also if you get caught off-guard the option of at least having a second chance is good before ALL that you have been working for is thrown in the trash because you get jumped by like 4 dudes with no way to run away.

 

I have been playing many roleplay servers for a good while now, including the curent LOTC- and stuff like that never goes well.

 

People will just git jumped all the time and there will be no way for smaller Naz groups to be really made before they are all disconected, personally I see the limit to be reconnected as an issue in its own but c'mon man at least give people that second chance before destroying all they were doing. 

 

 

[LoTC's Next Top Model 1626]

6 minutes ago, Jaslaw said:

People will just git jumped all the time and there will be no way for smaller Naz groups to be really made before they are all disconected, personally I see the limit to be reconnected as an issue in its own but c'mon man at least give people that second chance before destroying all they were doing.

 

if you're a group of like three people and somehow everyone on the server knows you're active naz, that's a flop on your part.

the upside of being a small covenant is that noone knows you, compared to big covenants where a ton of absolute randoms know exactly who you are and just tell everyone because they're dumb as all hell. that's the defense small covenants have. if you're like three dudes and you go "hey, big group! you better stay on your toes, with us around!", then yeah, you're going to be obliterated. you don't even need a disconnection ritual to murder someone three times a week until they give up if that's what your goal is.

[Jaslaw 602]

11 minutes ago, LoTC's Next Top Model said:

 

if you're a group of like three people and somehow everyone on the server knows you're active naz, that's a flop on your part.

the upside of being a small covenant is that noone knows you, compared to big covenants where a ton of absolute randoms know exactly who you are and just tell everyone because they're dumb as all hell. that's the defense small covenants have. if you're like three dudes and you go "hey, big group! you better stay on your toes, with us around!", then yeah, you're going to be obliterated. you don't even need a disconnection ritual to murder someone three times a week until they give up if that's what your goal is.

Still you will go around and do stuff, even if your not too big you will get known eventually. Thats the part of playing the game and not sitting around doing nothing all the time

 

Be it by people ''just so happening'' to try and break into your lair all the time or the such, or making wild assumptions to try and justifie knowing you are a Naz

 

Stuff like that does happen as much as ''its not suppose to'' and a nuclear option like this really isn't a good thing to just be around with all that included so a major -1 to me just with the potential damage it can do

[tantuni445 289]

I'm sorry, but I think you wrote this Amendment not because the lore needs it, but to give your zarakaal a huge advantage.


Edit: You're aware that it won't affect you as you already said, and I'm not sure you'd write the same thing if you were a mortal warlock. In this case, as I said, you wrote something that doesn't address the lore's needs, but rather something that exploits existing rules to your advantage... This seems neither ethical nor pleasant. Considering you can get raided at 3 a.m., a second chance is what really keeps players healthy.

[Rig 17580]

30 minutes ago, tantuni445 said:

I'm sorry, but I think you wrote this Amendment not because the lore needs it, but to give your zarakaal a huge advantage.


Edit: You're aware that it won't affect you as you already said, and I'm not sure you'd write the same thing if you were a mortal warlock. In this case, as I said, you wrote something that doesn't address the lore's needs, but rather something that exploits existing rules to your advantage... This seems neither ethical nor pleasant. Considering you can get raided at 3 a.m., a second chance is what really keeps players healthy.

 

If you're on at 3 AM and raided, that's your fault for being on at 3 am. Don't wanna be RP'd at in the wee hours of the morning? Don't be logged on. It's an RP server at the end of the day. Also, Jade is one of the people who is least inclined to disconnect anybody out of all the current Zar'akal. Her reasoning to me was quite simple: If it's a one or done thing it's more narratively compelling. 

Given people can be perma disconnected already just by getting caught twice, a lot of the things you're complaining about presently exist. I said this on my prior post, but there's nothing stopping anybody from catching the person twice and gunning them down in the street that way. The sum of Jade's argument is that the gravity of the consequence feels heftier when it's a one and done thing. 

 

It really falls down to a matter of preference. At the moment, if somebody is disconnected, they need to relearn and re-apply from scratch anyways. If the gist really falls down to personal preference, it makes no sense to make these kinds of ad hominem attacks- Jade is already capable of permanently disconnecting people if she applied herself.

 

Edit: Also Jade literally explains her reasoning here lol. What about this suggests greed at all when she's agreeing there might be other modifications to tweak to the lore, and that maybe she has a skewed perception due to disconnection not applying to her? Casting these aspersions in the first place just seems really goofy.

 

Quote

The hope with this amendment would be to allow for a more fulfilling and consequential narrative experience, given there's no real reason RPly or OOCly (that I can think of/am aware of) to allow for one to be reconnected if you aren't even regaining the slots when you get DC'd the first time. I'm open to feedback and dialogue on this, as I acknowledge I play a Zar'akal and won't be subjected to this myself.

 

[Frostdrop1 1843]

This kind of undermines the storylines involved in many folk's journey. While a first disconnection is somewhat free, the rite is regularly used as a manipulative tool to tie people back to the hells which is, frankly, quite cool and compelling. This amendment basically just removes that chance entirely.

[Unwillingly 18099]

24 minutes ago, tantuni445 said:

I'm sorry, but I think you wrote this Amendment not because the lore needs it, but to give your zarakaal a huge advantage.

as rigorous mentioned the "huge advantage" in question is just that we'd have to disconnect someone two times as opposed to one, I'd encourage u guys to look at this with some more nuance than me just wanting to powerboost myself. I'm washed and I don't have the time to scheme and constantly hunt people and lately I've just been sitting in the backdrop of other peoples' plotlines (which I'm okay with). don't drink the koolaid pls I'm not an evil OOC plotter

[Frostdrop1 1843]

Addition, frankly, that the ritual right now is too low cost to justify permanent disconnection the first time round especially when the MA itself consumes slots permanently.

 

I think it makes sense for the hells to continue to invite people back.

You know.

It's a little something called temptation???

The hells were already unforgiving when not returning anything. The more I think about this the more it just feels out of key.

[tantuni445 289]

34 minutes ago, rigorous said:

 

If you're on at 3 AM and raided, that's your fault for being on at 3 am. Don't wanna be RP'd at in the wee hours of the morning? Don't be logged on. It's an RP server at the end of the day. Also, Jade is one of the people who is least inclined to disconnect anybody out of all the current Zar'akal. Her reasoning to me was quite simple: If it's a one or done thing it's more narratively compelling. 

Given people can be perma disconnected already just by getting caught twice, a lot of the things you're complaining about presently exist. I said this on my prior post, but there's nothing stopping anybody from catching the person twice and gunning them down in the street that way. The sum of Jade's argument is that the gravity of the consequence feels heftier when it's a one and done thing. 

 

It really falls down to a matter of preference. At the moment, if somebody is disconnected, they need to relearn and re-apply from scratch anyways. If the gist really falls down to personal preference, it makes no sense to make these kinds of ad hominem attacks- Jade is already capable of permanently disconnecting people if she applied herself.

 

Edit: Also Jade literally explains her reasoning here lol. What about this suggests greed at all when she's agreeing there might be other modifications to tweak to the lore, and that maybe she has a skewed perception due to disconnection not applying to her? Casting these aspersions in the first place just seems really goofy.

 

 

"Casting these aspersions in the first place just seems really goofy." Are you serious? I have a long explanation below, but as I said. The real goof in a place where people have already put in so much work is that someone is against giving these people a second chance to repay their hard work even if it means losing most of their progress lol. If you catch someone again and disconnect them, then maybe you can count that as a success.


The 3 AM example is something I'm suggesting is reasonable, giving players at least a "second" chance at a piece of lore they love and enjoy playing, rather than permanently losing access. If you catch someone a "second time" and disconnect them, it becomes their problem. But considering something like permanent spell slot loss, I still don't understand why you're saying "just once, but thoroughly." It's not obvious that Disconenct was made with the sole purpose of telling a truly good story telling. But we both know that's not the case. In any case, how can anyone argue against second chances when a story that ends with "we just caught you with 182382138 people, used ??? emotes, I'm sreqing"? I'm more certain than not that this whole thing was written to give a massive advantage to groups that own zarakaal. While I don't know if Unwillingly wrote it specifically for that purpose, what else can I think of that's against simplifying second chances by permanently disabling them? Especially when you already know that if the reconnected warlock loses their connection anyway, that's the end of them, and they can literally go back to their old self after 4 months if they're at max tier anyway? Man, 4 months is a really long time anyway. You only get one second chance to reconnect, and you're starting back at tier 1. That's giving that player the chance to continue participating in the lore they love, at a huge cost. Your reasoning for wanting this to change is pointless.

[Jaslaw 602]

34 minutes ago, rigorous said:

 

If you're on at 3 AM and raided, that's your fault for being on at 3 am. Don't wanna be RP'd at in the wee hours of the morning? Don't be logged on. It's an RP server at the end of the day. Also, Jade is one of the people who is least inclined to disconnect anybody out of all the current Zar'akal. Her reasoning to me was quite simple: If it's a one or done thing it's more narratively compelling. 

Given people can be perma disconnected already just by getting caught twice, a lot of the things you're complaining about presently exist. I said this on my prior post, but there's nothing stopping anybody from catching the person twice and gunning them down in the street that way. The sum of Jade's argument is that the gravity of the consequence feels heftier when it's a one and done thing. 

 

It really falls down to a matter of preference. At the moment, if somebody is disconnected, they need to relearn and re-apply from scratch anyways. If the gist really falls down to personal preference, it makes no sense to make these kinds of ad hominem attacks- Jade is already capable of permanently disconnecting people if she applied herself.

 

Edit: Also Jade literally explains her reasoning here lol. What about this suggests greed at all when she's agreeing there might be other modifications to tweak to the lore, and that maybe she has a skewed perception due to disconnection not applying to her? Casting these aspersions in the first place just seems really goofy.

 

 

That more so makes it clear that the limit on the ammount you can be reconnected is the issue rather then the fact the ability to reconnect exists.

 

Getting ganged up on by four people and all the shiet you were doing being gone in an instant is NEVER fun and it more so destroys then creates anything meaningful as you would suggest.

 

Given, people can try and hunt people down for a second time- but thats still better then ''uh-oh, nothing you can do and your character is now ruined! Oopsie :D'' because you are given that second chance, it means you know and learn to be careful now without it being full on nuclear and being nothing you can do about from there.

[Rig 17580]

5 minutes ago, Jaslaw said:

That more so makes it clear that the limit on the ammount you can be reconnected is the issue rather then the fact the ability to reconnect exists.

 

Getting ganged up on by four people and all the shiet you were doing being gone in an instant is NEVER fun and it more so destroys then creates anything meaningful as you would suggest.

 

Given, people can try and hunt people down for a second time- but thats still better then ''uh-oh, nothing you can do and your character is now ruined! Oopsie :D'' because you are given that second chance, it means you know and learn to be careful now without it being full on nuclear and being nothing you can do about from there.

 

1. The person was knocked unconscious and handed to us when we got there. Literally in a room upstairs where we grabbed them from the people who gave her to us as an offering.

2. We waited for more people to come out and fight, alas nobody did.

3. We returned 30 minutes later looking for more Naztherak and the local Chieftain and I spoke, and he directed me towards other Naztherak.

 

But that's okay buddy, wear your tinfoil cap. 

[Ardory 2978]

Someone kicking a magic community’s hornet nest was on my endmap bingo.