Player-Staff disconnect poll

[wowj 9747]

i think only like 1 maybe 2 admins are actually connected with the players

[monkeypoacher 8055]

mea culpa in these threads is always "we tried reaching out to nation leaders about this change, but…"

 

unsure if there's a disconnect between staff and players but there is certainly a disconnect between the average roleplayer and the weird little dudes who RP mainly on discord and treat LoTC as their personal strategy game

[PrimnyaQuorum 3999]

Something something rant but it's silly how absent every level of player is from one another.

 

EDIT: I am generalizing each portion, evidently, but I generally believe shit flows downhill - I believe a good portion of problems originate from some issue higher up and trickle down into other issues - just look at mod and ST reports. Rules get made up, reports get half-assed and half-considered, and then players stop trusting staff - it could equally be that normal Staff are the problem, or the managers are, but in either case that problem trickles down to the players. In effect them, if there exists an issue at some level, every level below it will experience some problem that derives from that original problem.

 

Admins [evidently] either don't listen, or are buried so deeply in a bureaucratic process it wouldnt matter if they did [I.E Bobbox's claim the perishable food system was shoved into the vote to launch 10.0 and couldn't be independently considered]. Meanwhile an actual safety issue took a WEEK to resolve. God forbid if anything had happened, but I'm so honest when I say any trust I had in the safety process eroded instantly. What the actual **** is going on in administration that justifies such a thing?  

 

Managers are so terribly out of touch they out themselves every time they speak [I.E Sharing coords for herbs/mining ore is metagaming & metaplay because its "malicious" despite it being a habit for the last 2 maps with 0 "malicious" occurrences resulting]. 

 

Average Joe Staff is so bullied and removed of the ability to act in any meaningful manner they aren't capable of really independent action to resolve problems beyond "Let me ask manager" or outright trolling because they can't do anything themselves. That it took two whole years for both Techlock and Combat Rules to get any form of actual revision and over 3 years for mods & ST to decide "Hey, we should stop writing conflicting rulesets and work together" would indicate that the volunteer staff team is either full of egos that can't work together or full of actual paperwork that prevents it.

 

NLs, after 3 years, still have to worry more about the OOC systems that dictate nation/realm survival [Tile Payments, Node Farming, Gear Production, etc] that Diplomacy remains the exact same as it has been for the last 3 years [who can assemble the most PvPers that WILL ACTUALLY rally on Saturday WCs]

 

Players, meanwhile, are stuck grinding literal HOURS every day just to be competitive on reserves of herbs and ores. This grind isn't even optional to people who strictly RP, because the alchemy feat [dependent on the herb node function] requires alchemist shears [dependent on the material node function]. So the majority of the server, in the first 2-3 weeks of map launch, has spent more time doing things to reach a place where they can RP then really RPing. 

 

Just remove #1 from #1 Roleplaying server and replace it with like #150th Faction SMP Server. No one is really so stupid as to genuinely believe that doing vanilla MC's worth of resource grinding is "RP" - no one is doing gathering "RP". No one is doing "Trading" RP. The systems currently in use for gathering, selling, and trading resources are so tailored to avoid RP through asynchronous shops and markets that most people who claim such is "RP" are just ousting themselves are serial resource farmers over RPers. At this point I don't even have a solid stance on if I disagree about the amount of grinding, because the grind itself is so intentionally obtuse and difficult that all I can really think to ask is WHO designed this system? Who did they consult? What testing was done? What data, if any, was used to justify the amount of changes from 9.0 -> 10.0? I mean if we really want to bring data into the equation and not vibes [which, lets not pretend people stay on LoTC for the statistics and not the vibes] then lets see the data, wholly public. Let us see the entire thought process/decision making process behind these massive changes, not just be told "be grateful you get anything at all". 

 

Everyone harps on and on about "transparency" but holy shit how many times does it take of outcry after outcry and problem after problem before the process is made clear? Everyone has friends on some, if not all of the teams and therefore has a vague understanding of how things "work", only for some reason no one gets to really know unless they join said friend groups teams, a process of in-depth bootlicking at this point rather then actual interest and experience in the team you want to join. I mean screw IRP politics, the staff team politics are more interesting and more affecting LOL.

 

Whatever changes are being made are being made for a reason & for a specific group, and that group is obvious not anyone who actively tries to RP on the server. It's a genuine shame to want to do anything on this place and find you'd be better of giving yourself a TBI then actually trying anything here without the blessing of Some Specific Guy. 

[Calise11 841]

I don't think the disconnect is with the pickles. 

[DancingZebra267 1626]

Never did I have an issue with the food plugin, as many had expressed feeling unheard about it. The issue I have is the nodes and fuel in 10.0, I believe this had came to a complete shock for not a single person I could think of knew this was going to happen. It's especially annoying that we cant use Lava Buckets, Wood, or Charcoal. Specifically since many blocks in order to create you need to smelt them with other blocks that you cant get from /blockexchange. I'd like to see that the requirements for crafting to be lowered or bring back alternate fuel for simply non pvp stuff.

 

Also if you look at other games and look at the results of what happens when developers listen to their communities:

 

Battlefield 6 (BF6) is seen as a great game, particularly by its community, because developers actively listened to and incorporated player feedback, resulting in a return to classic Battlefield elements like distinct classes, immersive environments, and satisfying gameplay. This approach focused on core gameplay fundamentals, avoiding some of the less popular changes in previous installments and resulting in an experience that players felt was more authentic to the series. ~ Google

[Slorbin 2932]

Telanir and Tythus are too far removed from the server and are completely oblivious to its ongoings

[Frostdrop1 1843]

18 hours ago, Morigung-oog said:

I'd love to hear your thoughts on how we can overcome this issue and where the origin lies, given the overwhelming player verdict right now, be it on this thread or over discord or forum PMS

Transparency and communication. There is a big reason that Xarkly is a beloved mod even when other mods maybe work hard - he's sensible and engages and is interested in a dialogue. He's set a great precendent in outlining what the rulings are, why and the punishment even when handling reports - and not only does this make the reports clearer, it teaches people what to expect around certain areas that they might find to be grey areas. He has been immensely helpful int he things he chooses to handle.

This doesn't have to be just a Xarkly thing. All teams are capable of communication and some do so more than others. The community team communicates! I don't think most people have a problem with community tea (?). I would think most understand that staff in general are just doing their job, and volunteer their time, and they don't really need to be perfect though at times some could be a bit better - there are a lot of staff doing a lot of things and it isn't necessarily their job to make or break the server.

The server, frankly, at the top level, operates in an obtuse and obscure manner. How many people here realise that EVERY ADMIN has to unanimously agree to ban someone over a safety report? Why??? I can only fathom that they all want their opinions to matter equally when SOMEONE ELSE's safety is at risk? No. It's illogical and should be changed to a majority post-haste, but I don't think they've ever looked at that policy and second-guessed it. It just screams of policy made out of immaturity under the guise of doing what they thought was logical at the time it was created. It has a very youthful energy of 'we all matter' which should simply not be the priority. It just takes one admin to have a bad opinion or be slightly biased to continue to put people through their paces. This isn't an area that people focus on for change because it's not immediately obvious to most people, but these kind of strange decisions are litered throughout LOTC in policy, handling, lore and mechanics. Outright bolstering pieces of the forums and screaming loudly is legitimately a more effective method of getting admins to do stuff than any other communication, because other forms of communication are incredibly limited or just inaccessible. I truly wonder if the driving force behind this kind of weird decision-making is beaurocacy, similar to how stakeholders can completely ruin a product - be it movie or game - because they only value their voices, and push forward disconnected agendas precisely because the stakeholders have this idea of 'we all matter', but then utterly neglect the people that are more closely connected with the projects and truly breathe life into them.

"The admins" as a vague collective right now are just completely failing to choose to communicate for reasons which don't make themselves readily apparent, and have historically also failed to do so. They don't really even communicate about their reason for not communicating, which continues to leaves obscurity and distrust. Communication does not impede impatiality - of which the admins are simply not impartial. They are equally flawed people like the rest of us but by choosing not to communicate it gives the impressions:
1. That they act above others,
2. That they do not care about community opinions,
3. That they are at odds with the community.
It has to be stressed, as it has many times before, that communication is required. I am certain that the above is not the impression that they want to give. However, silence in the face of upset communicates a distinct uncaringness whether they mean to or not, and until they choose to engage the general collective of "the community" will continue to feel unheard. I aren't sure if they're worried about calls to end their positions or something, because they started to make communications over the course of Aevos but at current are radio silent, which is simply not painting a positive picture.

[Morigung-oog 5697]

7 hours ago, Slorbin said:

Telanir and Tythus are too far removed from the server and are completely oblivious to its ongoings

 

I think their remove from the server isn't necessarily a bad thing as Squak, Josh and Daisy currently run day-to-day admin affairs. In fact, I'd argue that it's almost important as it helps them be impartial to various biases that may sprout up when interacting with the server on the day to day, especially given these two are higher up than the other three admins, I'd say. Think of Telanir and Tythus like HR.

 

Despite Telanir not being around, I can confirm that behind the scenes, he is still very much present. 

 

I think this is one of the only instances where being removed from the playerbase is alright given their roles in staff and I'd argue that if they got in too deep it would complicate things.

 

[Onnensr 1908]

^{>shadowbanned from staff roles}

^{>the magic I was leading is rumored to be chopped to bits soon}

^{>rukio's boyfriend never gave me my full suit netherite}

^{>blood magic vapes banned for being fun and entirely within the constraints of the magic}

 

burn it all down and let actual chimps take their gilded thrones!

[Smmer 2441]

Im not allowed to type my feelings bcs it gets misconstrued as crashing out so I will say in simplified terms 

 

Yes theres a problem, admins (one in particular) has failed to step up and hold a presence. Majority of the moderators arent following the guides or rulebook and I say that with certainty. Appeals have gone unanswered for around 4+ months now some even as long as 6+ months because you decided to powertrip and make them private appeals (to you directly), higher management have kept people on leads with non permanent yet unappealable bans? why do you keep players in a cage if there was never even the slightest bit of hope of ever unbanning them? seems a bit weird. 

 

What I want from the server is transparency and clarity, what I want is for the powertripping bans to stop, if you never intended for a player to be unbanned give them a PCV, take that step and commit instead of having them crawl onto their knees to beg for your audience its weird, its always been weird? Either we do a massive unban of non pedos, degens doxxers and racists or we stop giving cgvs that go unanswered and if an admin appeal goes silent for more than oh I dont know 3-4 months it can then be handled by managers and if that fails it becomes a moderational appeal to the forums :) stop stagnating. 

[__Hergh 785]

There is an extreme disconnect between staff and player, I wasn’t fully thinking about it when I clicked my option, so that won’t agree with my answer. But the disconnect can make the server unplayable and undesirable at times. The inability to acknowledge that certain things were a mistake to add ( the grinding non grinding addition ) making it impossible or inconvenient for those who play the server in their adult years with little free time to conceptually gather enough resources to do their rp, whether that be alchemy, making items, RP weapons.
 

It is ultimately a server we log on to have fun with, but before certain decisions are made, it would be nice if the changes that are implemented are done so with the consent of both player base and staff in mind. Yes, some of the more vocal haters are jackasses, but that doesn’t really lessen the impact of their point aside from the fact that they need to mind their manners. The new system could have been cool and all, but the way it was implemented makes it incredibly difficult for non-grinders to get around. ( I am a lazy non-grinder with little free-time ).  

[Smmer 2441]

1 hour ago, __Hergh said:

There is an extreme disconnect between staff and player, I wasn’t fully thinking about it when I clicked my option, so that won’t agree with my answer. But the disconnect can make the server unplayable and undesirable at times. The inability to acknowledge that certain things were a mistake to add ( the grinding non grinding addition ) making it impossible or inconvenient for those who play the server in their adult years with little free time to conceptually gather enough resources to do their rp, whether that be alchemy, making items, RP weapons.
 

It is ultimately a server we log on to have fun with, but before certain decisions are made, it would be nice if the changes that are implemented are done so with the consent of both player base and staff in mind. Yes, some of the more vocal haters are jackasses, but that doesn’t really lessen the impact of their point aside from the fact that they need to mind their manners. The new system could have been cool and all, but the way it was implemented makes it incredibly difficult for non-grinders to get around. ( I am a lazy non-grinder with little free-time ).  

 

1 year later btw and we still havent had the community meeting i kept begging for in mod chat because changes were and still are being made in private amongst the teams then implemented without consulting the actual demographic of players it would be effecting... You can host different meetings and Q&As for all the categories from StoryTeam to Moderation, plugin related tech questions ects. We're asking you to listen to feedback because half of the staff playerbase don't even roleplay, they don't even play the server but still contribute oocly like to the forums ect most of them are out of touch. 

 

Hear us out, don't shut us out. It would be so much easier to have voice meetings than the 100+ forum reply to a singular question btw.

[Slorbin 2932]

15 hours ago, Morigung-oog said:

 

I think their remove from the server isn't necessarily a bad thing as Squak, Josh and Daisy currently run day-to-day admin affairs. In fact, I'd argue that it's almost important as it helps them be impartial to various biases that may sprout up when interacting with the server on the day to day, especially given these two are higher up than the other three admins, I'd say. Think of Telanir and Tythus like HR.

 

Despite Telanir not being around, I can confirm that behind the scenes, he is still very much present. 

 

I think this is one of the only instances where being removed from the playerbase is alright given their roles in staff and I'd argue that if they got in too deep it would complicate things.

 

 

Comparing them to HR only makes me absolutely hate them with every fiber of my being have you ever met an HR hiring manager in today's economy

Serious note, if Telanir 'is' active behind the scenes which I'll have to just take your word for that just leaves the lame duck Tythus who sits around drinking pepsi and embezzling funds into shitty steam sales. The excess funds could easily go into improving the server or paying people for game-changing plugins but They Don't

[Jihnyny 5233]

as someone who has been playing ACTIVELY for the better part of 3 years on the server, i havent seen such a disconnection between players and moderation until now. In the past, moderation held bias' but it was all void when it came to someone who was not even involved. Now however, i'm noticing players who would I think last to hold a fear or a disinterest in DMing staff with their problems, sharing the fact that they're either ignored, or they will be. 

It is not just the admins. Though I believe the admin team is responsible. A ripple effect, where the new parts of moderation are not held accountable for their actions and or arent trained properly to uphold the responsibility they were given.  

I've honestly have never seen it this bad

[RaiderBlue 1064]

I hope my admin responds first.