War And 'gm Incompetance'

[Blawharag 277]

To be honest, and in the spirit of what Ned just said, I do not think we need rules governing lava or even as many rules surrounding War Claims as there are. Its become such an overly complicated system we aren't focusing on having fun. To be honest, I had no problem with the dwarven infinite lava trap. We blocked it off and continued on our way, tada! At no point in time did I have to stop and say "This is stupid, dwarves are stupid, whine whine" because I was busy actually having fun storming the Dwarven tunnels.

On that note, War Claims in general probably need to take a step back on the strictness scale. I remember when the Orcs owned Galahar (before it was called Galahar, I think it was something with a K) and Oren attacked it while most of us were off line, claiming for their own. No War Claim, no involved "take region by region" process, just a group of Oren guards banding together to take territory from the Orcs. None of us whined, none of us made ban reports about how unfair it was. I logged on the next day, found out about it IC, rallied a group of Orcs and went to retake the area. We stayed there until Oren showed up to take it back from us, we fought of Oren and then for good measure went and besieged outside Ahkazar's gates with the dwarves before they could launch another counter-attack with even more people that would have undone our retake of the Galahar area.

The loss and regain of that city occurred entirely through player choices. Battles were had, players on both sides got to participate, it made for great RP and no one had any complaints. No that would never be possible. Im not saying the War Claims system completely sucks and should just be thrown out, I am saying that hyper-complicating it is what will make it suck.

[Aislin 4354]

Let us kill each other.

[Hiebe 2493]

Dwarves and orcs forever have had no warclaim battles which is epic i sould say. Back in June was dwarves used to raid all the time and then we eventually allied up. Dwarves and Orcs are a bunch of chilled out people and should rule the world together XD

[HappyShackles 886]

Let us kill each other.

Can I go first?

[Austin 697]

Dwarves very much like to exaggerate. Im never able o fight but I sure do hear bout it. I can see certain tnt being used but we need to set some standerds on it and how it can be used.

I am certain the Dwarves and Orcs are mature enough roleplayers to be able to handle TNT without restrictions ;P. I mean, we have it why not use it!? Like I saw a bit of the aftermath after the Bed Battle and it seriously looked like a group of war-mongering orcs marched through the Dwarven hallways.

Dwarves and orcs forever have had no warclaim battles which is epic i sould say. Back in June was dwarves used to raid all the time and then we eventually allied up. Dwarves and Orcs are a bunch of chilled out people and should rule the world together XD

Craotor told me about these, XD. He said at the start of the server before the No-Rp kill rule was implemented basically the dwarves obliterated the orcs with numbers :P. He said it was a lot of fun though,

[Sultan 3953]

War claims were supposed to minimize and or prevent these sorts of blunders and arguments. Now all they seem to do is prolong them. We type up some lore and then wait a week for a scripted event that is heavily meta-gamed by the defenders and that some of us that are involved in can't even attend because it's almost always thrust into EST prime-time. I'm done with wars, to be honest. If it's not a five-man raid that happens naturally when the relevant players are online and the cause is just, you can have that mess.

Don't blame the GMs though. It's like saying that now that Osama Bin Laden's dead there will be no more terrorism. They're just a handful of players juggling chainsaws. If you're going to blame anything, blame the fact that players are such whiners and complainers that the GMs felt obliged to introduce a War Claims system in the first place. Now us war-fighters have to coddle the masses and jump through all of these hoops, bogged down for a week of stagnating role-play just to fight one war that lasts less than an hour and results in more bickering and dissatisfaction. The GMs are doing this **** for you, they're triaging this whole mess as best they can, and at the root of the problem is a thin-skinned player-base that expects every conflict to be some sort of Napoleonic charge into their own glorious victory. All of you that are complaining and nit-picking are the ones that influenced this ridiculous War Claims system into existence to begin with.

Sleep in the bed you've made.

The only reason for War-Claims is as Ned stated, stop the drama and bickering and complaining. Now if there two groups of people, that do agree to fight with a Warclaim but not restrict themselves to time, that is fine and allowed.

But people are missing out on things, if you do see we have other types of attacks that do not, need a 5 day wait, there is one that is 2 days and one that is 3 days.

[Noahjam325 53]

That was one of the reasons I made the bed raid. I wasn't looking for conquering; I was looking for a big, quick, and fun battle. I think the orcs would agree with me. Like Blawharag said; we didn't sit and whine when we found the traps. We just countered them to the best of our ability. While we didn't manage to steal the beds, we did manage to do a lot of damage and actually make the Dwarf city look like it was assaulted by orcs. The battle really couldn't have gone any better. Both sides had reasons to walk away happy. We got to blow up chunks of your city, and supply room while losing mostly iron. You got to fend off a band of marauding orcs and even used one of our own holes against us at the end.

Instead of making more rules; I feel that strikes or warnings should be given out to people who are really just trying to cause drama over an event. If one player starts harassing a GM, or another player after a War Claim then they should get punished for it. If you're not willing to suck it up and deal with the War Claim rules as they are then you need to remove yourself from open-scale conflict. Just don't show up to the battles if you can't handle it in a mature fashion. That's not to say you can't criticize the system; just don't do it in the most jerky way possible after the event. Use the Feedback forums and start a discussion.

[Trouvo 205]

It always seems to me that no one ever looks at the actual problem, and always look for someone else to blame.

Examples:

1. This entire thread

2.People complaining they keep getting killed by mobs

3.There is no rp going on in Asulon

4.People don't know what to do

etc etc

When it all boils down to the individuals causality, they are the reason their having issues, they are causing their own problems, they cant learn to come up with creative solutions to their own problems and always want to blame someone else for their own incompetance

Easy answers to examples above

1. Learn to enjoy RP, and remember that the server is about RP, not who wins...or who can complain the most

2. Learn to RP, come up with creative RP that involves the mobs, like stay indoors at night, hire a guard, stay at the local tavern etc

3. Come up with some RP, we are a player made, player created RP server, not a GM run, GM created RP server, the GMs are here to help, but you have to take the first steps....

4. Ask, ask on the forums, ask in RP, ask on TS, make something up to do, just get out their and RP and see where it takes you

I think anyone that complains about issues that are not bugs in the system just do not have enough creativity to not only create RP, but to even enjoy any RP unless it is powergamed for them so that they always win....

[Ned Lud 1260]

It's good to have something in place, but it's also nice when two sides can just agree to go at it right then and there. Despite my initial misgivings with some of the latest dwarf antics, they have my respect in that. Dwarves and orcs could probably rule the continent together if they weren't so busy fighting with one another.

Anyhow, the only way to effectively address problems and prevent them in the future is when that problem actually occurs. Most of these problems we're seeing these days are simply because we're doing things in ways that have never really been done before. So there will be mistakes and arguments along the way.

[Sultan 3953]

It's good to have something in place, but it's also nice when two sides can just agree to go at it right then and there. Despite my initial misgivings with some of the latest dwarf antics, they have my respect in that. Dwarves and orcs could probably rule the continent together if they weren't so busy fighting with one another.

Anyhow, the only way to effectively address problems and prevent them in the future is when that problem actually occurs. Most of these problems we're seeing these days are simply because we're doing things in ways that have never really been done before. So there will be mistakes and arguments along the way.

One thing also, Dwarfs attacked the orcs in there city, I think you may have seen the video there was no warclaim, just dwarfs pming orcs asking for it, and we both agreed ooc on it happeing and did happend and we had fun.

[Trouvo 205]

Anyhow, the only way to effectively address problems and prevent them in the future is when that problem actually occurs. Most of these problems we're seeing these days are simply because we're doing things in ways that have never really been done before. So there will be mistakes and arguments along the way.

Yes a proper debate and discussion were both sides will actually listen to the reasonings, instead of people just complaining and whining or saying what their opinion is is the final straw or end of discussion, is more than acceptable, but I have yet to see such a discussion in all honesty

[Song Druid 1486]

Because when GMs try and mediate and get feedback certain unnamed leaders of Alras begin calling other unnamed GMs "fuckwits" and "**** gms". As Ned Lud said-it's the playerbase's fault. The War claim system is laughable now. Everybody wants to win. Nobody wants to lose. Those who are okay with losing have to deal with the ones who want to win not RPing properly and end up unrealistically taking victory and ruining RP. Just, stop rping, everybody. If 0 people were on the server there'd be 100% more realistic RP than there is now.

No arguments too!

[Samson Option 9652]

Because when GMs try and mediate and get feedback certain unnamed leaders of Alras begin calling other unnamed GMs "fuckwits" and "**** gms". As Ned Lud said-it's the playerbase's fault. The War claim system is laughable now. Everybody wants to win. Nobody wants to lose. Those who are okay with losing have to deal with the ones who want to win not RPing properly and end up unrealistically taking victory and ruining RP. Just, stop rping, everybody. If 0 people were on the server there'd be 100% more realistic RP than there is now.

No arguments too!

Might I recommend you to read my Post about Egocentricism, pass the information to a friend (Check Your Ideas & Lore to find it), shove it down Alrasian mouths, make 'em read it :D

[Αμφίονας 41]

Concerning the "there is no rp going on"

A. Always be prepared to spent the 70-80% of your time having no rp. Sob it up.

B. When you do and provided you all have free time, stretch it as MUCH as possible. Like reading a highly detailed book. Rp cooking blacksmithing,eating ,facial expressions. Live your character. When I first started I lost epic chances to rp , because I wanted preservation and acted like material>fun.

C. be spontaneous , use your head and adjust your actions. But stay in character.

D. Take a trip to Solace. For all of you who do not know Solace=Tortuga. 75% of the times I have been there, I started by eating apples in the square and ended fighting assassins, watching magic, suicides , kidnapings, philosophical conversations, accusations , secret information being told (not that I heard it, but it added to the atmosphere) dragons attacks , surgeries , blazes dropping out of nowhere etc.

It really hurts me that we are demolishing it, but rp will concetrate in other places. Hopefully.

If it does not I suggest making a square town village whatever close to spawn. Rp can not be everywhere always, too ideal. We need a place to head for when we look for rp.

But on the other hand if you look for rp sooner or later you will find some.

Regarding the gm's. They are doing their best. Do not expect them to start solving everything. Try your best first and then ask for help.

I just posted this here not knowing where it fitted.

Edit: Okay not sure , if Solace would be better with the Druids or Artharia. Forget depending on Solace for rp. Good rp can theoretically be found everywhere. Practically, you have to be persistent and give lots of chances for others to rp with you.

[MediocreGamer 838]

People seem to believe I was mad at the two gm's for helping us with the event, not at all. I was quite thankful for them helping us as Seventh and Mog had OOC issues to deal with. I'm not mad in the slightest for them doing their jobs as a GM, I am upset about how they conducted their role as the two GM's who were meant to over-see the Alrasian bombardment on the island. This is how the battle occured. Thirty three of my men were on the top deck of my ship in Alras ready to go into battle, we had all been discussing the bombardment scenario that we were going to conduct. We had been planning the bombardment for seven days, we continued to talk about how we were going to coordinate the battle whilst in teamspeak and in game. I had only assumed that Seventh, or Mog had spoken with the gm's over-seeing the event and that the two gm's had been listening to what we had been planning as they were in the teamspeak when i had been discussing it with my men. The battle was setup to last around half an hour or so through back and forth bombardment. We had a teamspeak channel of roughly thirty people which is quite hectic, so I can understand the confusion that occured.

The Alrasian flag ship set sails, and it is copy-pasted to the island in which we were meant to bombard as you can see in the picture below.(Wrongly if I might add; the boat he pasted is floating as the rudder is out of the water). The fast travel system is then setup at the bottom of the ship and the only way down is via ladder. If you've ever had thirty plus people in minecraft trying to go down the same ladder... it can be annoying as in minecraft if multiple people use the same ladder in the same spot it will then glitch you and push you up to the top. So, as my men one at a time run through the fast travel system we are teleported on the shore of the island as you can see in the picture below indicated by the blue line. We are coming in one by one very slowly and what do I see when I go through the fast travel? Forty or so of Hanseti's men in a concave around the fast travel zone SIX blocks away, and I did indeed count how many blocks they were from the fast travel warp. Forty armed and ready to fight pvp'ers SIX blocks away from the opposing faction that is spawning in slowly. I was astounded by what I was seeing, because this isn't even in the slightest what we had planned for the battle. Mirtok begins to count down as there were about 10 of my men through the portal, after three seconds Hanseti begins charging 6 blocks to where the portal was spawning people in and began the battle. People were getting spawn killed as soon as they were teleporting through the fast travel believing they were going to be on the boat to engage in some very interesting bombardment RP, only to be spawn killed instantly. That is the reason why I was upset, some claim we lost the battle as well, no even though many of my men were spawn killed we did indeed end up winning the battle as it appears some of defending factions men were more interested in picking up the diamond armor in the battle field and running off. All in all, the battle lasted around a minute which was... very upsetting for many because it negated everything that was planned in which all thirty plus people in the team speak channel thought the two gm's coordinating the event fully knew and understood their roles.

I spoke with the two gm's who were over-seeing and coordinating this event and asked them, You just allowed the opposing faction to be Spawn Killed by the Defending faction, do you believe that that is alright and fun for anyone other then the defending faction of course? It was a long drawn out argument which resulted in me getting told that "It is my fault that I didn't say that I didn't want to be spawn killed by the defending faction".

In this picture you can see the Opposing faction represented by the Blue Line, and the Defending faction represented by the black line.