Creation Or Evolution? Vote!

[hammer01 29]

I am a faithful catholic, but Evolution is why we are here boys.

and what proof does evolution have? none. in fact there is so much evidence against it that it is no longer feasible....

[Space 2335]

and what proof does evolution have? none. in fact there is so much evidence against it that it is no longer feasible....

OOH BOY, YOU DONE DID YOURSELF IN NOW

 

First, I guess I will explain what evidence IS, because  a lot of people don't aren't able to understand definitions so good, you know? You gots to be shown with a diagram.

 

First, you discover something! It's a dot .  ! The scientists discover soem more things about said dot, and create a theory, represented by a :  Then, they discover MUCH More, adding more 'dots' to the theory until they have a O. Now, it may not be exactly a O, maybe a 0 or something, but it's still close.

 

So, now we look at the genes of animals. So, we share common ancestors with the chimpanzes? Lets look at their genes! Oh good, it's something like 90% similar to homo sapiens! OH JOYOUS OCCASION! Now lets look at the animal that shares common ancestor with the chimpanzes! OH HEY, GUESS WHAT? IT'S LIKE 80%!

 

Not exact numbers, don't quote me, but that is all true.

 

Also, where is this evidence AGAINST Evolution?

 

Also, please don't give us the god of the gaps.

[hammer01 29]

OOH BOY, YOU DONE DID YOURSELF IN NOW

 

First, I guess I will explain what evidence IS, because  a lot of people don't aren't able to understand definitions so good, you know? You gots to be shown with a diagram.

 

First, you discover something! It's a dot .  ! The scientists discover soem more things about said dot, and create a theory, represented by a :  Then, they discover MUCH More, adding more 'dots' to the theory until they have a O. Now, it may not be exactly a O, maybe a 0 or something, but it's still close.

 

So, now we look at the genes of animals. So, we share common ancestors with the chimpanzes? Lets look at their genes! Oh good, it's something like 90% similar to homo sapiens! OH JOYOUS OCCASION! Now lets look at the animal that shares common ancestor with the chimpanzes! OH HEY, GUESS WHAT? IT'S LIKE 80%!

 

Not exact numbers, don't quote me, but that is all true.

 

Also, where is this evidence AGAINST Evolution?

 The first "evidence" for evolution is in the geological column. Paleontologists have discovered that in the layers of rock closest to the surface  contain more "complex" fossils(such as horses and humans), while the lowest layers of rock contain less complex fossils(such as trilobites and single cell organisms.) This would seem to point toward evolution in that simple organisms evolved into more complex organisms over eons of time. There are, however, a few problems with this. The geological column is, itself, a scientific theory, unproven. thus you are basing a theory off another theory. next there is the problem of the Cambrian Explosion. the Cambrian explosion was a discovery of complex life forms in the second to last strata. Now, how could this be, if complex life had to evolve from simple life, then logic dictates that the second to last strata would only have fairly simple life. but in reality, it contains fossils from every major animal phylum.  according to evolution, the time needed to evolve as much as it did is over 1 billion years, whereas in reality, they only had 170 million years, which is obviously not long enough.

 

And if evolution really happened, then wouldn't we see more fossils from the intermediate periods of evolution?

 

 Next there is the matter of Molecular Biology. Most animals have Cytochrome C, which takes part in cellular metabolism. the cytochrome c is slightly different for each species. Now here is the percent difference of the cytochrome c for each of the following species from bacterium:

 

 

 

                                                            _________________________

                                                            |organism | percentage change|

                                                            |________|________________|

                                                            |horse      |             64%            |

                                                            |________|________________|

                                                            |pigeon    |             64%            |

                                                            |________|________________|

                                                            |Tuna       |             65%            |

                                                            |________|________________|

                                                            |silkworm  |             65%            |

                                                            |_moth___|________________|

                                                            |wheat      |             66%            |

                                                            |________|________________|

                                                            |yeast      |             69%            |

                                                            |________|________________|

 

 

 

 

 

  Now remember that evolution says that complex forms evolve from simple ones. The simplest life form of life on the planet is bacterium. Of the organisms listed, yeast is the next simplest. Increasing in complexity is the silkworm moth, then the tuna, then the pigeon, then then the horse. thus evolution would assume that yeast would be most closely related to bacterium, then the silkworm moth, etc., etc., etc., all the way up to the horse. As a result the yeasts cytochrome c would be most closely related to the bacterium. according to the data, however, the opposite is true. the horse, the most complex of the animals listed, is most closely related to the bacterium. I could list more data that points in this direction, but i am too lazy.

  Now here is the data that you were referring to:

 

 

 

                                         

                                                            _________________________

                                                            |organism | percentage change|

                                                            |________|___to human_____|

                                                            |rhesus      |             1%            |

                                                            |monkey__|________________|

                                                            |rabbit      |             9%            |

                                                            |________|________________|

                                                            |horse      |             12%            |

                                                            |________|________________|

                                                            |Tuna       |             20%            |

                                                            |________|________________|

                                                            |screwworm |           25%            |

                                                            |________|________________|

                                                            |wheat      |             38%            |

                                                            |________|________________|

                                                            |yeast      |             41%            |

                                                            |________|________________|

                                                            |bacterium|             65%            |

                                                            |________|________________|

 

 

  The problem with this data is that, to construct it, you have to ignore 99% of all data from molecular biology and choose only 1% of the data that agrees with the hypothesis of evolution.

 

  This is my proof against evolution.

[hammer01 29]

First things first, am I seriously the only christian left on LotC? I mean, help me out here... anyways,

No your not... im a Christian!

[Space 2335]

Wait, you said that the fact that the geological column isn't confirmed means you can't help put evidence towards another theory because you're piling theories ontop of eachother, but you can use that theory to refute another theory (I can use them fancy letters too).

 

I haven't been able to find any sources that talk about your molecular biology (I'm more of a spess man) and I'm no biologist. But, even IF evolution is wrong, that does NOT prove creation.

 

ALSO, GOOD SIR, I CHALLENGE YOU THAT YOU COPY PASTED MOST OF YOUR ARGUEMENT!jkjkjk.

 

EDIT: I have found a few things about the relation of complex species and the geological column and they say that the deeper in, the less complex the species. http://www.detectingdesign.com/fossilrecord.html#Schweitzer

 

Perhaps we shall post our sources so we can't just say 'BULLSHIT'

[Space 2335]

MY GOD I HATE YOU YOU IDIOTIC STUPID LAGGY FORUMS DOUBLE POST SORREH

[JtPv 140]

Whoever said we are here because of Evolution....look at the title please. Space, wow, long time no see, buddy! Welcome back. Now, please explain giraffes.The next bit is a copy/paste from a website talking about a video: Giraffe -- this "lowly" animal also contains three unique, cooperating capabilities.

Because the neck of the Giraffe extends so high into the air, the heart must contain an extraordinarily strong pump to force the blood from the lower body to the highest reaches of the brain. Thus, the first capability unique to the giraffe is a heart that is also a most powerful pump.

However, when the giraffe lowers its neck to drink, the blood that is circulating in its neck will suddenly come rushing down by the force of gravity. This sudden rush of blood is so strong, it would quickly cause the giraffe to suffer a brain aneurysm, killing the animal instantly. Therefore, the second capability is that spigots are built into his neck arteries that instantly close down whenever the animal lowers its neck to drink water.

However, when the giraffe abruptly raises its head after drinking, the blood would flow so rapidly downward through the force of gravity that the animal would suffer a sudden loss of blood to the brain, thus causing him to pass out cold. However, God has built a third capability that prevents this from occurring. The brain has a sponge-like material just behind the brain that has gradually been absorbing blood all the time the giraffe has been drinking. When the giraffe suddenly raises his head, that blood very slowly drains out of the brain, thus keeping the giraffe from passing out, while the spigots open up and the blood begins to flow naturally.

Three very complicated, but cooperating capabilities had to come together at once in the giraffe.

The Giraffe also by itself utterly disproves Evolution.

This video then goes on to numerous more examples of lowly animals that contain two or more independent capabilities that work together to make the animal function normally. If you take any of these capabilities away, the animal dies. If any one of these capabilities arrived on the scene later than the others, the animals would die. Dead animals do not evolve!

Thus, the lowly animals expertly described in this video completely demolish the theory of Evolution. Even the most ardent Evolutionist has no answer as to how these individual animals could possess two or three independent capabilities that uniquely work together, and must have been present in the animal at a single moment of time, i.e., Creation by a Creator God.

[Sykogenic 1333]

-snip-

That made no sense. Animals develop new traits in order that they do not become extinct...

[hammer01 29]

Wait, you said that the fact that the geological column isn't confirmed means you can't help put evidence towards another theory because you're piling theories ontop of eachother, but you can use that theory to refute another theory (I can use them fancy letters too).

 

I haven't been able to find any sources that talk about your molecular biology (I'm more of a spess man) and I'm no biologist. But, even IF evolution is wrong, that does NOT prove creation.

 

ALSO, GOOD SIR, I CHALLENGE YOU THAT YOU COPY PASTED MOST OF YOUR ARGUEMENT!jkjkjk.

 

EDIT: I have found a few things about the relation of complex species and the geological column and they say that the deeper in, the less complex the species. http://www.detectingdesign.com/fossilrecord.html#Schweitzer

 

Perhaps we shall post our sources so we can't just say 'BULLSHIT'

1. i have not been trying to prove creation, just refute evolution

2. i got most of this stuff from a textbook and so it isnt all in my own words. i just summarized a section of the textbook

3. i can get you sources, but right now its like 11:30 and i need to get to bed soon... ill get them to you tomorrow...

4. i noticed you didnt comment on the lack of fossils of intermediate species...

[w1llll 68]

Whoever said we are here because of Evolution....look at the title please. Space, wow, long time no see, buddy! Welcome back. Now, please explain giraffes.The next bit is a copy/paste from a website talking about a video: Giraffe -- this "lowly" animal also contains three unique, cooperating capabilities.

Because the neck of the Giraffe extends so high into the air, the heart must contain an extraordinarily strong pump to force the blood from the lower body to the highest reaches of the brain. Thus, the first capability unique to the giraffe is a heart that is also a most powerful pump.

However, when the giraffe lowers its neck to drink, the blood that is circulating in its neck will suddenly come rushing down by the force of gravity. This sudden rush of blood is so strong, it would quickly cause the giraffe to suffer a brain aneurysm, killing the animal instantly. Therefore, the second capability is that spigots are built into his neck arteries that instantly close down whenever the animal lowers its neck to drink water.

However, when the giraffe abruptly raises its head after drinking, the blood would flow so rapidly downward through the force of gravity that the animal would suffer a sudden loss of blood to the brain, thus causing him to pass out cold. However, God has built a third capability that prevents this from occurring. The brain has a sponge-like material just behind the brain that has gradually been absorbing blood all the time the giraffe has been drinking. When the giraffe suddenly raises his head, that blood very slowly drains out of the brain, thus keeping the giraffe from passing out, while the spigots open up and the blood begins to flow naturally.

Three very complicated, but cooperating capabilities had to come together at once in the giraffe.

The Giraffe also by itself utterly disproves Evolution.

This video then goes on to numerous more examples of lowly animals that contain two or more independent capabilities that work together to make the animal function normally. If you take any of these capabilities away, the animal dies. If any one of these capabilities arrived on the scene later than the others, the animals would die. Dead animals do not evolve!

Thus, the lowly animals expertly described in this video completely demolish the theory of Evolution. Even the most ardent Evolutionist has no answer as to how these individual animals could possess two or three independent capabilities that uniquely work together, and must have been present in the animal at a single moment of time, i.e., Creation by a Creator God.

"God exists because a giraffe does."

 

I'm not quite sure how your somebody else's point disproves evolution. The modern day giraffe, Giraffa camelopardalis, is a member of the family Giraffidae. Girrafids first arose 8 million years ago in southern Europe, and the earliest known of these is the Climacoceras.

 

 

Note the short neck. The lengthening of the giraffids' neck is the result of selection pressures. Animals with longer than average necks can eat vegetation higher off the ground, and therefore survive when others do not, passing on their genes to the next generation. 

 

 

The gradual lengthening of girrafids' necks can be seen through the evolutionary ancestors of the modern day giraffe. Samotherium, seen below, has a slightly longer neck than Climacoceras.

 

 

Bohlinia, another ancestor, shows a lengthening of the neck over Samotherium.

 

 

Finally, we have Giraffa camelopardalis, the modern giraffe, which has the longest neck and limbs of all. Note: This is not a complete list of all of the evolutionary ancestors of the giraffe, just a few of them to illustrate my point.

 

 

In future, it would be nice if you put some effort into your arguments, rather than just copying and pasting something off the internet.

[Dargene 51]

Way  i see it, Give me proof god exists, we have proof of evolution but no proof of god. (dont say the bible because that could have been written by a guy who got high)

[Eleatic 1033]

The fact you people make it an argument is giggly, a happy compromise for either party is saying /some/ higher power set evolution in motion, therefore not squashing anyone's ideals. :3

[Space 2335]

Whoever said we are here because of Evolution....look at the title please. Space, wow, long time no see, buddy! Welcome back. Now, please explain giraffes.The next bit is a copy/paste from a website talking about a video: Giraffe -- this "lowly" animal also contains three unique, cooperating capabilities.

Because the neck of the Giraffe extends so high into the air, the heart must contain an extraordinarily strong pump to force the blood from the lower body to the highest reaches of the brain. Thus, the first capability unique to the giraffe is a heart that is also a most powerful pump.

However, when the giraffe lowers its neck to drink, the blood that is circulating in its neck will suddenly come rushing down by the force of gravity. This sudden rush of blood is so strong, it would quickly cause the giraffe to suffer a brain aneurysm, killing the animal instantly. Therefore, the second capability is that spigots are built into his neck arteries that instantly close down whenever the animal lowers its neck to drink water.

However, when the giraffe abruptly raises its head after drinking, the blood would flow so rapidly downward through the force of gravity that the animal would suffer a sudden loss of blood to the brain, thus causing him to pass out cold. However, God has built a third capability that prevents this from occurring. The brain has a sponge-like material just behind the brain that has gradually been absorbing blood all the time the giraffe has been drinking. When the giraffe suddenly raises his head, that blood very slowly drains out of the brain, thus keeping the giraffe from passing out, while the spigots open up and the blood begins to flow naturally.

Three very complicated, but cooperating capabilities had to come together at once in the giraffe.

The Giraffe also by itself utterly disproves Evolution.

This video then goes on to numerous more examples of lowly animals that contain two or more independent capabilities that work together to make the animal function normally. If you take any of these capabilities away, the animal dies. If any one of these capabilities arrived on the scene later than the others, the animals would die. Dead animals do not evolve!

Thus, the lowly animals expertly described in this video completely demolish the theory of Evolution. Even the most ardent Evolutionist has no answer as to how these individual animals could possess two or three independent capabilities that uniquely work together, and must have been present in the animal at a single moment of time, i.e., Creation by a Creator God.

 

That's not anythnig AGAINST evolution, it's just proving the wonders that random mutations could create. And yes, forum bans are a hell of a drug.

 

1. i have not been trying to prove creation, just refute evolution

2. i got most of this stuff from a textbook and so it isnt all in my own words. i just summarized a section of the textbook

3. i can get you sources, but right now its like 11:30 and i need to get to bed soon... ill get them to you tomorrow...

4. i noticed you didnt comment on the lack of fossils of intermediate species...

 

Response to 1: Then tell us why you believe in a creator?

RESPONSE TO 2: I was just joshing you, I am not a biologist so I literally just read a few articles from it for my reply

RESPONZEE TO 3: Meh, I just like it when I can actually find PROOF of the statements, even though I trust ALL of you.

REEPONSEZ to 4: And when we find fossils of intermediate species, guess what happens? Now we have 2 gaps. That's a pointless arguement.

 

 

The fact you people make it an argument is giggly, a happy compromise for either party is saying /some/ higher power set evolution in motion, therefore not squashing anyone's ideals. :3

 

No, this isn't about compromise. Only when the human kind can unite will we travel to the stars (Vaguely familiar quote).

[JtPv 140]

*sigh* There is no more proof of Evolution than there is Creation, thus many of your arguments are invalid. Just because "it's possible" and "all signs point to it" doesn't mean it's true. "Oh, but, this in the Bible defies science! Something we humans have yet to find possible, so it must be false!" No. That argument is invalid as well. God is the Creator, the Giver of Life, The Savior, and, sadly, The Destroyer. He can defy science if He wants to. Oh, plus, when you dissect the theory of evolution, it's nothing more than a sequence of chances which has come to shape the modern world. We were just a "better" accident.

[Space 2335]

*sigh* There is no more proof of Evolution than there is Creation, thus many of your arguments are invalid. Just because "it's possible" and "all signs point to it" doesn't mean it's true. "Oh, but, this in the Bible defies science! Something we humans have yet to find possible, so it must be false!" No. That argument is invalid as well. God is the Creator, the Giver of Life, The Savior, and, sadly, The Destroyer. He can defy science if He wants to. Oh, plus, when you dissect the theory of evolution, it's nothing more than a sequence of chances which has come to shape the modern world. We were just a "better" accident.

 

Do I need to explain what proof is again?

 

Also, you're not giving an argument.

 

I believe in evolution because it is the leading theory for the transition from non-life to life. Tell me why you believe in a creation. Tell me why you would WANT to believe in the christian god? You go to heaven so you can praise God? You know what that reminds me of? North Korea. And, in the words of the late Christopher Hitchens: 'But atleast you can f'ink die and leave [North Korea].'