[Poll] YOUR View: Warclaims

[EboBren' 87]

Although, I agree we should remove warclaims I feel as though the rule in which the land you attempt to conquer has to be next to you should not be in place under certain conditions. Let's say that the territory in between the two nations is an ally of the attacking party and has opened their borders so they can send suppplies and troops to the siege, battle, etc. I think in situations like this one, or if another good reason comes up, then they should be allowed to conquer anywhere.

[bungo 3965]

I'd like to have Warclaims still, although they would simply be Claims for War. Which means that you would make one Big Warclaim, which states that the two Nations are at War, then you would have regulations like suggested before. This would make RPing War much better as you would build Siege Camps, live there for a few days, then Siege. There should be an OOC acceptance of the Times and Battle Locations. Orcs + Dwarves raided each other with 20+ people simply because It was fun, there were No Warclaims involved and we simply agreed to it OOCly.

[Religious_Pie 127]

So, I support this fully. I had made a post with about the same things written in it but I dissapeared into the void, since I was unable to find it in the archives or anywhere. Anyway, I only dissagree with this.

This is a quote from another forum which explains what I want to say very well. The first quote if from "Charlie4vB" the Second part is mine.

^^^Credits to "Charlie4vB for that post ^^^

That is my post. I read it through and I don't think their is any mention of the server name, so if I missed one pelase feel free to remove it. Other than that I think it explains quite clearly why I don't agree with that rule.

Can I just say Spamshok, that did you ask for permission from Chuck to post this? As this was property of Essence, and can't simply be handed around with consent.

[Danny 2232]

I'd like to have Warclaims still, although they would simply be Claims for War. Which means that you would make one Big Warclaim, which states that the two Nations are at War, then you would have regulations like suggested before. This would make RPing War much better as you would build Siege Camps, live there for a few days, then Siege. There should be an OOC acceptance of the Times and Battle Locations. Orcs + Dwarves raided each other with 20+ people simply because It was fun, there were No Warclaims involved and we simply agreed to it OOCly.

That could be possible, however perhaps making it less like an application - and rather a declaration that is handed to the monks, or something?

Can I just say Spamshok, that did you ask for permission from Chuck to post this? As this was property of Essence, and can't simply be handed around with consent.

He doesn't really require consent, at least legally he doesn't - it'd be polite for him to. The work was written under no specified license when it was posted, and the Essence TOU mentions nothing about quoting works from it:

Forum Terms & Rules

Please take a moment to review these rules detailed below. If you agree with them and wish to proceed with the registration, simply click the "Register" button below. To cancel this registration, simply hit the 'back' button on your browser.

Please remember that we are not responsible for any messages posted. We do not vouch for or warrant the accuracy, completeness or usefulness of any message, and are not responsible for the contents of any message.

The messages express the views of the author of the message, not necessarily the views of this bulletin board. Any user who feels that a posted message is objectionable is encouraged to contact us immediately by email. We have the ability to remove objectionable messages and we will make every effort to do so, within a reasonable time frame, if we determine that removal is necessary.

You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this bulletin board to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law.

You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by this bulletin board.

He specified the author and that it wasn't his, and made that quite clear. It's also the property of Chuck/Charlie, not Essence. Essence also doesn't even have a Copyright Notice on it either, only it's skin does. If you wish to discuss that with Spam then you can take it to PMs. If Chuck wishes it remove then he should contact SpamShock.

[Blawharag 277]

• [*]The attacking party must contact the GM Team and get at least one GM present for the entire battle, this ensures the war rules are sufficiently kept and that there is always support from GMs for things such as trebuchets and any rule breaks. Additionally, any GMs overseeing the event must have no IC vested interest in the outcome of the battle, in order to avoid bias both Actual and Perceived.[*]The siege must last an appropriate amount of roleplay days, and involve diplomacy, rather than a straight out “smash down the walls attack”.

Two changes made to the above two listed rules.

Bias, even perceived bias, could ruin a potentially good battle. Even if the Gm possess no "actual bias" (meaning they are not making calls bias towards one side or the other) they will still possess "perceived bias" (meaning the public will see that they have a vested interest in one side, and consequentially assume that calls made by the GM are the result of Bias, despite the claims of the GM).

On the subject of "required diplomacy" you have a further issue of forcing RP. What is meant by required diplomacy? Are we now expecting Orcs to so up for a siege and "talk it out" like reasonable, civilized humans? If the Orcs show up to siege your city, smashing your walls and sacking the city is all they are interested in doing. Forcing them, or anyone else, to sit down and discuss demands and alternatives is silly. One might recommend the pursuit of diplomacy where it would be good RP to do so, but in not every siege does this make sense from an RP perspective.

[Danny 2232]

Two changes made to the above two listed rules.

Bias, even perceived bias, could ruin a potentially good battle. Even if the Gm possess no "actual bias" (meaning they are not making calls bias towards one side or the other) they will still possess "perceived bias" (meaning the public will see that they have a vested interest in one side, and consequentially assume that calls made by the GM are the result of Bias, despite the claims of the GM).

The GMs involved would not be involved with either party at all. Usually multiple GMs would be present, in fact it's expected that at least two neutral GMs would be present in a war. Any GMs fighting, would be made to normal member rank.

On the subject of "required diplomacy" you have a further issue of forcing RP. What is meant by required diplomacy? Are we now expecting Orcs to so up for a siege and "talk it out" like reasonable, civilized humans? If the Orcs show up to siege your city, smashing your walls and sacking the city is all they are interested in doing. Forcing them, or anyone else, to sit down and discuss demands and alternatives is silly. One might recommend the pursuit of diplomacy where it would be good RP to do so, but in not every siege does this make sense from an RP perspective.

By required diplomacy, I really mean that instead of just storming in some form of discussion of terms should be involved, rather than a straight "run in and kill to conquer". However, I do happen to understand exactly what you mean - I'll amend that part.

[Gorum© 623]

yeeee proposal is beast.

[SparehoeCakes 547]

Honestly, I have always hated War-claims, being around in Aegis, when there was no War-Claims, it just added MORE OOC to an RP server, that was un-needed. The War-Claims system, in my opinion, wasn't a very smooth system in the first place. So the fact that we may be going back to the Aegis system, is amazing.

I support the change!

[Megacomet 25]

I like this new system, well I suppose old system. It just seems a lot more fluid. Now, I guess I could go into intense detail on what I like about it, or what seems to need improvement, but that is for another day, when the rules are more developed and tested.

[Steviathon 3]

Yes! Now we can cause more political destruction by falsely accusing an invasion without meta!

[KoTo 610]

Yes, yes, and one more time, yes!This news made my day.

[Wolf Druid Ouity 1461]

Yes please.

[Wizard 125]

This is a great proposal. War-claims should be removed. Question: Would surprise attacks be allowed in the new system on any front?

[The 5'th Friar~ 29]

Yes. I like.

[Danny 2232]

This is a great proposal. War-claims should be removed. Question: Would surprise attacks be allowed in the new system on any front?

The Leader of the Defending Party would still need to be informed at least 2 hours before.