Whitewash Orcs.

[Merkaken 516]

People are constantly complaining of cliques on this server, and by forcing players to play for you or not be allowed to play on of their favorite races is rubbish, and will just keep the complaints coming because basically what you're doing is making another clique. Maybe whitewash orcs are just an inevitable thing that you'll constantly have to deal with, but you should continue to do it in RP instead of trying to make OOC rules and restrictions for the orcish player base.

I don't think you're seeing the point. There should never be this many Whitewash Orcs. Ever. The Orcs are far too savage and bloodthirsty, and are drilled into their heads from the moment they breath that pink skinned weaklings should die. That's it. End of story. The chance of a whitewash popping up should be slim to none, and absolutly not this many we have now. It is breaking lore. Read up on Orc lore if you haven't. Why do you think we have purges? We don't just randomly go "HEEEY LET'S GO COMMIT GENOCIDE ON OUR OWN RACE!!" Out of the blue. It's for a reason, because Orcs are raised to view whitewashes as worse than Iblees himself and should be killed on sight. So the number of whitewashes we have now are far too great ,and yes, is indeed lore-breaking.

[V0idsoldier 1139]

That's basically how mori worked, I believe Jexdane had his character perma killed because he broke Mori lore.

Oh yeah and we all know how well that went. Lots of complaining, lot's of yelling, and lots of rage.

I stand by what I said. I believe that as a player you do not have to explain yourself to anyone unless you are majorly breaking lore, and I know for a fact that being a whitewash is NOT breaking lore. White wash orcs have been here since Aegis and back then no one complained about them despite there being a vast amount.

Whitewash orcs are not breaking rp, what is breaking rp is denying the Iblees curse, but to my knowledge not a single whitewash orc does that.I understand you are the leader of the orcs Thore, but let me be honest with you, as the leader of the orcs it is NOT your duty to limit and control everything every player does as a orc.

I know for a fact MANY whitewash orcs have brought and continue to bring great rp to this server. You should not have to sit here and write a large story about how your parents grand parents where whitewash and why you have simply been brought up that way. If they are whitewash and you do not like that, do what you SAY you do and deal with it in character. Hunt them down in character like you tell everyone you do and write stories about you doing.

You cannot expect them to kill of their characters if you simply write rp stories about you hunting down whitewash orcs.

And just to clear things up, I will go further. This is not entirely my opinion, simply what I believe is right. In my own opinion I would LOVE to see more feral and just stereotypical orcs, but I do not believe this is a good way of going about and attaining that goal. Everyone wants to be original, and sometimes you just gotta let them, we are limited enough as is.

Edit: And as for the above, Soresan, I don't really think it is your right or ANYONES right on this server to sit here and say "There was never suppose to be this many whitewash orcs!"

What is that anyways? A non spoken rule? A rule submitted through Morse code only the orcs have read? To be frank I don't think that anyone should limit anyone. So really, don't say that "There shouldn't have ever been this many whitewash orcs" Because that's BS, there can be as many whitewash orcs as players wanting to play them.

Do remember this is a game, and that by playing this game your only goal is to have fun. Your goal isn't to limit fun, to bind people, to destroy others rp, or any of that, it's simply to have fun. I don't see how having a few ((5 at most)) whitewash orcs breaks anything.

And saying you want a system like the Mori use to have is absurd. I don't think anyone should have that system, case in point was the Mori themselves. They tried that system and it blatantly failed, causing no one to play the race. I don't think it would work with orcs either

[Austin 697]

Oh yeah, we have tried liberating them but all whitewashs hide in the cloud temple- Our balls are already in a vice bound to no-raiding rules, no warclaims, no combat in CT area. We've tried for over a year and it isn't up for discussion. If you play a whitewash have the decency to explain why your character is what he is in a few short sentences, if you dont if Orc Apps do come out you will be forced to kill off your character or write a new application that will not be accepted.

[VonAulus 2082]

I like the idea of an orc app. Also, people... the creation story is cannon lore, deal with it.

[Lita 677]

I like the idea of an orc app. Also, people... the creation story is cannon lore, deal with it.

Individual race applications are being introduced in 3.0. If you want to discuss it, take it up with Danny. As to the contents of this thread, honestly we have enough drama on the server as it is, this is one of the things that can and should be handled in roleplay, not on the forums.

[Cyndikate 2303]

I feel something should be done regarding whitewashed being sheltered in the cloud temple.

Yet due to OOC restrictions, orcs can't do a thing about it.

If such issues cannot be solved in game, then OOC intervention should be necessary.

[bungo 3965]

Individual race applications are being introduced in 3.0. If you want to discuss it, take it up with Danny. As to the contents of this thread, honestly we have enough drama on the server as it is, this is one of the things that can and should be handled in roleplay, not on the forums.

As the President of the United Conferdation of Orcish Forces,

We have tried this for the past year. People simply ignore the RP, they're dead, they are healed by monks, and then they're like yolo, oh wait Monks.

[Braxis 813]

Individual race applications are being introduced in 3.0. If you want to discuss it, take it up with Danny. As to the contents of this thread, honestly we have enough drama on the server as it is, this is one of the things that can and should be handled in roleplay, not on the forums.

Drama on the Server? I for one and several other people have not seen many major drama in weeks. And if you have read the post above they have been but many have been Abusing OOC rules to avoid Rp. And when orcs try to do Rp in the areas they are being forced to break thier own lore they get punished. They once again, trying to point out why it doesnt many ANY sense unless they have really good lore/reasoning behind thier chars breaking the Orcish Lore.

I feel something should be done regarding whitewashed being sheltered in the cloud temple.

If such issues cannot be solved in game, then OOC intervention should be necessary.

I argeed completly, they have been trying over a year now. Since rp if we do kill them they are just healed by monks and are like YOLO! and run off acting as if it never happend. So Sadly OOC must be taken into this to attempt to go and fix/mend the issues being cause.

[Merkaken 516]

Individual race applications are being introduced in 3.0. If you want to discuss it, take it up with Danny. As to the contents of this thread, honestly we have enough drama on the server as it is, this is one of the things that can and should be handled in roleplay, not on the forums.

As said a multitude of times, we have tried to, and it hasn't worked. There are indeed situations where Forum action is needed.

[Wretched 2075]

All Thore asked to see was a little evidence :)

I'm a bit surprised at the massive amounts of hostility he's recieved for that. But if you have a legitimate whitewash character, then why would you worry about it? You'd just post down your information and there you go. But if you can't supply this information because your character simply lacks it... Then Thore is completely correct.

Lore is a fragile thing. It won't be long untill the Kharajyr have their own one of these, most likely towards 3.0. And it certainly is interesting to see people so fast to defend themselves, yet failing to see that there is nothing to defend. Thore didn't accuse anybody in particular of lore-breaking, and made a simple request just to see whom actually has their lore sorted out behind their character.

So let's all cool the ham, and look on this with a tad more maturity :)

[ski_king3 0]

Okay, so I understand the reasoning behind this thread, however, I really don't think this is necessary. My reasoning is simply, where and when do you find this abundance of whitewash orcs? Virtually every orc I see is either a gorkil, ugluk or member of another major orcish clan. Yes, it's probably likely that there are some whitewashes that I'm unaware of, but as far as the orcs I've RP'ed with, which have been a decently large number, I've met exactly two. One I assume was a new player, and yes, he was not roleplaying the way and orc ought to (he was a goblin actually, but still). The other is stephensj, who I can assure you understands the lore and definitely has reasoning behind it. Other than that, I haven't to my knowledge met a single whitewash orc, and most of the orcs I've RP'ed with were definitely not whitewash. If there is such an abundance of whitewash orcs, then they are doing a pretty good job of concealing themselves.

Likewise, this really is an IC issue, not an OOC one. In real life, people leave nations they don't agree with, and they divide, reform, end and begin. However, it seems to me that quite a few people on this server seem to think that a nation falling apart is an OOC issue. Yes, partially it is likely because people become disinterested due to OOC reasons, however, if the roleplay continues to be fun, then this should not be an issue. Nations can divide or fall apart, including the four race nations. They are not exceptions to any rules.

I am sure someone is going to get very mad at me for saying this, but I feel that the reasoning for this post is that fewer people are being drawn to play orcs or goblins, and this decrease in their player base is being attributed to whitewash orcs, when in reality it is because the orc playerbase is less attractive to players for whatever reason. I really think that instead of asking the playerbase of orcs to comply by your wishes, perhaps changes ought to be made to the War Nation that can make it more attractive to players, just as the Kha are doing. This will likely expand the playerbase and keep your whitewash issue (if there is an issue) from expanding. Of course, these are just my two cents.

[Kanrath 190]

Whitewashes as a subrace should have a mini app, mostly just requiring a background more detailed then "was born to whitewash parents"

Now, question. What makes an orc a whitewash other then coming from whitewash parents?

[DrakeHaze. 2524]

Hmm... this topic now has my attention...

Chill out and quit trying to be a dictator. The bloodlust and everything else should definitely NOT be required. It's about how your character is raised and the experiences they've had that shapes their mannerisms.

A curse is a curse. No matter what someone says unless a post is made to clarify the racial curses "Not being required" all players should RP their respective races curse or it would be considered lore breaking (Which is actually what most whitewash are). The only problem I have with Whitewash Orcs is the majority of them I have seen powergame, break lore, and tend to not have any explanation as to why they are whitewash. I always RP'd as Whitewashes having a birth defect to explain how Whitewashes act the way they do. You say how the character was raised... lets go with obvious scenarios in which case the character becomes or is born a Whitewash Orc.

Scenario 1

Whitewash parents (Never seen them in RP). Sure you can just create fake parents and make that the basis of your characters back story to explain how the character is whitewash... but then the question becomes, how realistic is your backstory? Whitewashes are not supposed to be able to control their bloodlust due to not being born of real Orcs (Term lightly used to express the difference between Orcs and Whitewash).. that would also mean the parents of said whitewash cub would have a hard time controlling their bloodlust and not training their child would result in the cub also not being able to control bloodlust which ends in bloodbath (Should end..) once the cub has matured at the age of 8. Whitewash parents is also a hard subject to wrap my head around seeing as most whitewashes would not be able to survive that long to find a mate and have kubs without succumbing to their curse and murdering someone or something (Usually someone due to environment the Orc is in... a whitewash environment) and will end up being killed, jailed, or simply going insane and becoming more savage than real Orcs (Hard to believe, eh?). IF a whitewash Orc can explain how they control their bloodlust and how they learned to then I am content.

Scenario 2

Another race adopted to abandoned Orc kub (No idea how that happens) and the kub is raised as said race or whatever shenanigans revolve around a adopted Orc child xD

Like in the previous scenario it would most likely result in bloodbath at the age of 8 (Mainly because other races do not share Orc curse so they would not know how to control it). Simply explaining how your character is able to control the negative effects of being an Orc will suffice.

Scenario 3

Being abandoned in the wilds (Unsure if anyone used that). If the kub is able to live and grow without their parents in the wilds, without being taught how to survive, without the guidance of other Orcs... that Orc is quite gifted and I want to hug them! I do not see how that makes a whitewash Orc however seeing as they would grow in a harsh environment. Maybe as they grew they visited other races and lived with them? Either way this scenario for me would make the most sense for a whitewash Orc because not only have they been able to survive on their own, they are most likely able to control their blooldlust (Term used loosely as even real Orcs get overwhelmed by it).. so then it would all depend on who they've encountered and their basis on Orcs (Lets face it, a race would lean towards their own race rather than embracing another).

There are plenty more scenarios however I'm sure I needn't go over all of them to get a point across. Bloodlust is the key issue here! (Also backstory..) There are a few issues I've seen with whitewash Orcs.

1. Metal Jaws - This to me does not make sense to me scientifically (Don't bash me because I bring science into fantasy). Most of the time a metal jaw would hinder speech more but in certain players' cases they tend to be able to speak perfect common aswell as speaking perfect Orc. That's a big NO for me. (Also tusk removal is another touchy subject)

2. Powergaming - This should be number 1 on my list actually... Whitewash Orcs are not strong like Kurghai trained Orcs (Majority of real Orcs are Krughai trained). No matter how much you lift... you will not be combat ready against a Krughai trained Orc. Sure you could have gotten some training from numerous other sources outside the War Uzg but it is not Orcish training. I am not saying Orcish training > Other... I am stating that Orcish training is meant for ORCS meaning it's the best training for them as a race. A thought came to my mind just now... are some of the whitewash Orcs only Orcs so they can be more "Powerful" compared to the other races they hang around? Just incase that might be the case... you're not.. at most you would be on par with another nations soldier.

3. Whitewash Ratio - No I am not going to say there are too many whitewashes. What I am going to say is the ratio is quite ridiculous for whitewashes would be killed on sight or sent to a Whitewash rehab. I am also not saying to kill off whitewash characters after a month, however a whitewash should not be out in the open so much as they are (OOCly you know your character cannot die, however ICly your character would know if it was in sight too long the possibility of it's life ending is quite high!). Simply keep in mind that the ratio is ridiculous and that Whitewashes would work in groups to stand their ground or shrink into shadows or simply go unnoticed.

I feel I have more to say but I cannot get the words out of my head at the moment (I am a tired person :P )

[Secret Lizard President 313]

I'm just saying, the whole lore thing about the curse has been told, by several GM's, to be speculative and that it could have just been a story told to explain stereotypical racial traits of each race.

But that's a whole different story, we're here to debate you restricting people's ability to role-play a character they like. Saying they have to explain themselves to you isn't fair at all. You have no right to tell people they can't play a white-wash if they want to.

And yes, you should role-play that your elves can't populate well, or that humans live short lives, because those things are obviously physical things you can't change, because that's how you evolved as a species, but the other curses aren't physical things, they're behavioral patterns which should be based upon character development and the environment they're raised in, not some speculative curse.

[Tayelikel 193]

My character elphaba is a whitewash, but she hides it from other orcs, her father raised her until her elf mother assassinated him and took elphaba for herself. still feeling semi close to the orcs she hides her whitewash side from them, with her desire being to be a strong orc like her father, but compassonate like her mother. She was raised in both worlds and tries to live in the middle.