Raid Rule Modifications

[Supremacy 3357]

B: The High elves have been open to literally every warclaim that has occurred to them since Aegis, they've lost their cities to them before, even when the information "gained" was meta'd they went through with it.

 

For the sake of being truthful we declined 2 war claims. One by a guy (Bgnsxxy) who made a character with the exclusive purpose of WCing the high elves without rhyme, reason or legit non-backstory provocation and the X-Ray war claim.

 

And yet for the last 8 months, nothing has been denied. Unlike the dwarves who denied a WC last week.

 

But again, PM me if you want to argue. Don't do it here.

[Destroyer_Bravo 1052]

A: The warclaim became open to all allies for either side: Null and void.

B: The High elves have been open to literally every warclaim that has occurred to them since Aegis, they've lost their cities to them before, even when the information "gained" was meta'd they went through with it.

C: Really this toxic behavior from you is unacceptable, might want to take a break and let your blood stop boiling before you make a post you'll regret.

A: That was the high elves idea, and annulled the reasoning for Drake to follow through.

 

B: Citation of the five-or-so warclaims during mid-Anthos. You forgot the Telemar wc, there was not only one warclaim you shot down for being "xray", which I could argue for hours about whether or not xray was actually committed.

 

C: Everything that disagrees with your (this includes my sentiment, and many others) opinion is, by definition, "toxic" or "trolly" or "dumb". This is a fact.

 

 

I'm willing to exchange blows all you want.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Destroyer_Bravo

[Glyc 234]

If you have this much hatred to shed, pm me about it for it has no purpose on this thread.

[Dr. Eggnog 74]

 

 

 flying potatoes

The greatest threat to Haelun'or, as of today.

[Dohvi 622]

 

A: The reason Drake didn't follow was because apparently all the Azogs are alts.

They legitimately were though. As an ex-Sariant I was able to go through the list and point out names I remembered. And all of the Azogs on the list at the time were alts. (And that's not just one or two, about half the names were Azogs.) And I certainly wasn't the only person who looked at the list and said the same thing. With this, combined with Vekaro being 30 blocks (at the most) away, it simply didn't make sense. So we allowed both sides to bring allies. Not just our own.

 

We did not deny that claim. We removed the unfair advantage one side set up for themselves. I don't see why the argument keeps coming back to this point.

[SodaiKamikaze 651]

I am pretty sure the Azogs were orcs before they were sariants, were they not?

[Dohvi 622]

I am pretty sure the Azogs were orcs before they were sariants, were they not?

Regardless of whether Azogs or Sariants came first, the majority of the Azogs on that list made the alts when TO activity was going through a low-patch (the same patch I left during). I don't speak of the Azogs in general. I simply speak about the names on the list at the time when the decision was made.

[Birdwhisperer 1173]

I'll be monitoring this thread, please get back on topic of the proposed rules and stop discussing past warclaims.

[Aedan The Bard 350]

City occupation is RP, deal with it in RP instead of putting up OOC barriers to combat it. Why would a group stop raiding constantly if you won't meet their demands? Fight back.

 

Because people are abusing it. If they weren't so full of OOC, and made IC sense with their RP, maybe then people would not put OOC barriers, duh. Raids weren't a constant thing in the past. Unless it was a large scale battle, people raided as often as two times a year, or once. Vikings raided and had to take a loooong break to gather resources, heal from battle, fix their weapons, armor, etc.

[Dohvi 622]

I've seen a lot of people capable of agreeing that this war has become just as much OOC as it has IC. I know that OOC barriers keep being referred to, but both sides are putting up OOC barriers and both sides are ignoring/breaking them. The real reason this war keeps continuing is because both sides are bored. One side doesn't RP, so has nothing to do. While the other side's RP keeps being disrupted, so they also have nothing to do. Anyone who claims the raids create RP is simply kidding themselves. All the raids I've seen have had no RP leading up to PVP (don't get me wrong, I enjoy PVP. But it's gone too far). No one can do events because there's too much war, and in the absence of events that war just continues. It's a tedious cycle that has resulted in a lot of people simply deciding to not log in until 4.0.  

 

I think the suggestions proposed need to be seriously considered.

[susitsu 870]

Burkester and I experienced a situation the other day where the attackers were repulsed and literally hadn't been seen for five minutes...then showed up when we had stopped looking for them to RP and insta-PvPed us...so yeah, I think I can dig it.

[Cyndikate 2302]

Why are you making war rules about the high elves? Things to note:

• All elves are together. So its 'all elves' not just 'high elves'.
• We accepted a war claim 2 weeks ago. It isn't my fault DrakeHaze didn't want to do it with allies when obviously Vekaro is 30 blocks away.
• The only people currently denying war claims are the dwarves, who burnt down the high elven library, attacked and slaughtered innocent Orenites and harbour impures 'for teh lulz' IC. Now you guys chain raid Oren and the Elves. We can't end the war because the Bloc won't accept a WC on anything but an impenetrable fort— So at least stop raiding because Oren has won the war you won't let them win.

So accept the war claim offered to you as opposed to hiding behind craft-book bridges and the fact that no dwarves are ever online unless your raiding so you can't be raided? The issue is, the Bloc won't stop raiding places that generate RP in 3.5 because they're bored and don't RP much in their cities until 4.0 hits. All this does is cripple RP everywhere.

 

On top of all of this... Attacking elves OOC doesn't discredit my idea. All it does, Destroyer, is show you dislike the high elves.

 

But none of this matters because the rule isn't about dwarves, elves, orcs or flying potatoes. So randomly attacking one another achieves nothing.

This is exactly what you did with the Orc warclaim. You made a forum thread insulting the orcs and called them dishonorable, thus pissing them off ICly enough to retaliate.  When they raided, players complain. It all consists of OOC bullshit, complaining, ban reports etc because someones immersion is broken as a result of a nation leader provoking other settlements.

 

Now the orcs decide to WC you as a result of you antagonizing them. You denied it because of accusations of Azogs being alts.

 

Your proposal isn't to benefit anyone else but yourselves. Wanna know why the elves are pointless to raid? Its nothing to do with your stone walls or 24/7 locked gates. It's the fact that the elves are essentially hiding behind 6 thick walls of OOC bulllshit and GMs to back them up and cater to them, and when people found ways around it, especially through legit MC mechanics, they cry, they ban report and make feedback threads.

 

Your proposal is just adding another OOC wall to suit yourselves. High elves don't raid, they rarely do, they can just insult other nations and hiding behind OOC barriers to dodge IC consequence.

 

You wanna stop being raided? Stop provoking other nations. Don't piss people off. Stop being dicks during times when it can cost you.

 

It's like the Princedom of Fenn all over again.

[ski_king3 0]

I still don't understand the criticisms to this idea. Does someone derive enjoyment from making a city entirely free from RP in an untimely manner for drastically long periods of time.

 

Also, to the person who will say PVP is one way to RP, I fully agree with you... but not if you're doing it in a manner that makes no sense in RP (ie. having a small force remaining in a city and killing every member of said city repeatedly for days under the guise of a raid).

 

EDIT: Also Cyndikate, these rules benefit the elves no more than the current rules do. If the current standard was that any form of provocation resulted in an auto-acceptance of a warclaim, then your point would make sense. However, this is not the case. The current rules are that all warclaims can be denied, which means that no new OOC barriers to protect the high elves are being erected.

[Cyndikate 2302]

I still don't understand the criticisms to this idea. Does someone derive enjoyment from making a city entirely free from RP in an untimely manner for drastically long periods of time.

 

Also, to the person who will say PVP is one way to RP, I fully agree with you... but not if you're doing it in a manner that makes no sense in RP (ie. having a small force remaining in a city and killing every member of said city repeatedly for days under the guise of a raid).

 

EDIT: Also Cyndikate, these rules benefit the elves no more than the current rules do. If the current standard was that any form of provocation resulted in an auto-acceptance of a warclaim, then your point would make sense. However, this is not the case. The current rules are that all warclaims can be denied, which means that no new OOC barriers to protect the high elves are being erected.

Elves can insult other nations and piss them off all they want, they just need to stop skirting consequences with OOC barriers, such as build perms, banning of legitimate MC mechanics, and more. This proposal is adding another layer of OOC that they can hide behind instead of taking IC responsibility for their own actions.

 

Even the family of 6 Snelves showed some dignity when Oren wiped them out and destroyed their town, and that was a result of the Grand Prince pissing off the emporer.

[ski_king3 0]

Elves can insult other nations and piss them off all they want, they just need to stop skirting consequences with OOC barriers, such as build perms, banning of legitimate MC mechanics, and more. This proposal is adding another layer of OOC that they can hide behind instead of taking IC responsibility for their own actions.

 

Even the family of 6 Snelves showed some dignity when Oren wiped them out and destroyed their town, and that was a result of the Grand Prince pissing off the emporer.

 

How does this make the elves more protected than they would prior to this change? I mean sure, raiders can stay longer and what constitutes a raid is slightly broadened, but those don't keep the high elves from getting raided any more than the current raid rules do.