My Proposal To Fully Unlock Alteration/transfiguration/whatever You Call It Once More

[Jachnun 566]

Why should magic be common? How does it being a fantasy world justify that?

 

LOL.  I am sorry that made me laugh, please forgive me. If I am a creature with pointy ears underneath a giant tree after me and some other people defeated a dragon, I believe I should also be able to do magic??? Why does magic seem so unique in a fantasy server? Shouldn't being a specific race, or have a specific trade make you just as special? yes. Magic does not make you elite, any person should be able to do it on a fantasy server. 

 

Your mentality seems quite close-minded and /extremely/ elitist.

[Cappy 1599]

Why should magic be common? How does it being a fantasy world justify that?

Magic is rare in Lord of the Rings books. Magic is rare in some Final Fantasy game universes. For every fantasy universe where it's commonplace, there's another where it's rare and coveted. Just being a 'fantasy universe' does not justify it being one way or another. People certainly batted their eyelids at Gandalf, no?

Very well, I'll put it this way. In our fantasy world, magic is common. If you want to do something about it, I suggest taking action in-character instead of going back to those awful days when large portions of role-play (for example, anything that could even resemble evil in some circumstances or anything magical) required strict monitoring and an enormous amount of enforcement for practically zero gain other than letting those who had it grow entitled.

Anyone else remember the Wihuns?

 

 

Sure, right now a player can pick up a book, and became a mage, but why should we encourage that? Please, give me an example about how unlocking magic has done anything but increase quantity at the expense of quality. What good have we done by turning a previously useful and interesting skill into a different way of saying "Draws his sword (PVP)"?

Getting rid of staff-approved powergaming was the biggest plus of removing the old magic system for me. Making role-play less free of restrictons was a welcome bonus. Now the only thing left is getting rid of all the entitled people whining about the time they spent learning magic and all the new people learning it and the injustice of it all.

 

And why can't the other magic types be locked by IC reasons? I don't want another lengthy OOC process like MAs, I want magic to require you actually learn it IC. Look at the Alchemy plugin - Threads with the recipies were removed, so obviously the staff wanted players to have to work to become better with it. The same applies for the emerald-enchanting system. If we can't just wake up and be masters at what is described as magic in a bottle, why should we be able to wake up as masters of magic?

The main reasons for subtypes being locked is it is only known to a select handful of people (such a runesmithing), or is restricted by some in-character method (such as recieving the Fjarriauga curse to become a frost witch) or the third reason, that it is prone to abuse (such as mental magic and alteration). The third example I disagree with because it is entirely subjective and ultimately means nothing. Anything can be abused. But unless the magic fits into either one of the first two categories, I see no reason for it to be locked.

When we get a skills plugin, magic like other skills won't be instantly obtainable. Alchemy and enchanting are just ahead of the curve at this point.

[Aelu / Rel (Combustionary) 1535]

LOL.  I am sorry that made me laugh, please forgive me. If I am a creature with pointy ears underneath a giant tree after me and some other people defeated a dragon, I believe I should also be able to do magic??? Why does magic seem so unique in a fantasy server? Shouldn't being a specific race, or have a specific trade make you just as special? yes. Magic does not make you elite, any person should be able to do it on a fantasy server. 

 

Your mentality seems quite close-minded and /extremely/ elitist.

 

Lord of The Rings has elves. It also has giant trees. And dragons. It doesn't have common magic, though. I don't see what you're trying to prove.

 

Show me where I once said magic was for the 'elite'. Show me where I once said it should take months to learn. Please, show me. I beg you.

 

Not once have I said people shouldn't be able to get magic. My opinion is that there should be regulated means of getting it, as a way to improve the quality of magic as a whole. Because, right now? Aside from the locked subtypes, the usual quality of magic rp is abysmal. I don't want to make people unable to be mages. I want to make sure those people are able to properly roleplay magic. If they are self-taught and can demonstrate an understanding of how it works? Of how to RP it? Let them have it.

Very well, I'll put it this way. In our fantasy world, magic is common. If you want to do something about it, I suggest taking action in-character instead of going back to those awful days when large portions of role-play (for example, anything that could even resemble evil in some circumstances or anything magical) required strict monitoring and an enormous amount of enforcement for practically zero gain other than letting those who had it grow entitled.

Anyone else remember the Wihuns?

Say what you will about Villain apps, but villainy back then was never nearly as bad as it is now. I miss those 'awful' days dearly. But I guess it's elitist to think people should put in effort now. Oh well.

 

Getting rid of staff-approved powergaming was the biggest plus of removing the old magic system for me. Making role-play less free of restrictons was a welcome bonus. Now the only thing left is getting rid of all the entitled people whining about the time they spent learning magic and all the new people learning it and the injustice of it all.

Staff approved powergaming? I'll agree, on this. T4/T5 mages were a bit too strong, in my opinion, but LoTC shouldn't begin and end with mechanics. Here's an example. Back in Anthos, Knox's warclaim on the North. Towards the end we'd gotten all of the Antags holed up in a gated cave in the back of their fort.

So, for the next five minutes, my Geomancer begins prepping a spell, something to attempt to damage the gate enough to shoot through. It was great, soldiers came around and killed withers while I typed, and five minutes later, I emoted flinging the stone. What happened? I was PMed by an ET that I wasn't able to do that.

Fairness? Making sure I wasn't special? Sure. Except for the fact that the ET's alternative was for me to rip a pillar out of the ground and use it as a ram. That's just as much 'staff endorsed powergaming' as the spell.

 

The main reasons for subtypes being locked is it is only known to a select handful of people (such a runesmithing), or is restricted by some in-character method (such as recieving the Fjarriauga curse to become a frost witch) or the third reason, that it is prone to abuse (such as mental magic and alteration). The third example I disagree with because it is entirely subjective and ultimately means nothing. Anything can be abused. But unless the magic fits into either one of the first two categories, I see no reason for it to be locked.

When we get a skills plugin, magic like other skills won't be instantly obtainable. Alchemy and enchanting are just ahead of the curve at this point.

The skills may fix them, but they may not. We're going a direction of homogenizing literally everything on this server so that nobody feels left out. If the skill plugin works well? We'll have tons of different types of characters. I don't want to be above everyone else, I simply don't want to see something with so much potential get dumbed down because people don't want to work for it.

My worry? I'm worried it won't. Introducing the 'gold staff' wand tool didn't create a new type of mage-combatant in battle, it just suddenly turned every soldier into some novice mage who could cast a magic missile. What I'm worried about is that the system is going to turn be one of min/maxing to get the best possible stats. That magic's going to be little more than something with almost no purpose but to complement each player's sword in pvp. And you can't say that will 'stimulate creativity'.

[Jachnun 566]

Lord of The Rings has elves. It also has giant trees. And dragons. It doesn't have common magic, though. I don't see what you're trying to prove.

 

Show me where I once said magic was for the 'elite'. Show me where I once said it should take months to learn. Please, show me. I beg you.

 

Not once have I said people shouldn't be able to get magic. My opinion is that there should be regulated means of getting it, as a way to improve the quality of magic as a whole. Because, right now? Aside from the locked subtypes, the usual quality of magic rp is abysmal. I don't want to make people unable to be mages. I want to make sure those people are able to properly roleplay magic. If they are self-taught and can demonstrate an understanding of how it works? Of how to RP it? Let them have it. 

 

First of all, elder scrolls also has elves, even /more/ types of elves its even more fantasy orientad than lord of the rings and magic is very common lol. Now the thing is you seem to be very elite with the idea of regulated magic. Regulated magic is different then what you were suggesting which was to bring back the MAT. Thats not regulated, thats nsa regulated, thats an all boy prepp school regulated. Regulated would be the community helping each other out. When you see a kid pg with magic don't be like "uh bring MAT plox!!!" just help the poor kid out. It seems elitist that you beg to be special with this system back, you don't need that to regulate things. 

[Lago 2569]

With the upcoming magic plugin, fully open magic will literally turn all combat magic into little more than a pvp commodity. We all saw what happened when golden staves started shooting fireballs. It took about five minutes for a non-mage to use it in pvp, and five more for them to write it off as a 'hand cannon'. Making magic fully open means every army will be comprised of a hundred soldiers who 'dabble in pyromancy' in order to justify having a fire spell to use in PvP. And as fun as it would be to see the Fire Nation rise on LoTC, we can all agree that the rp would begin and end at the line "Player casts fireball!".

 

You underestimate Telanir. This has been accounted for.

[Jistuma 1995]

Cappy, most magic breaks mech standard. If you're talking about combat, it still breaks mech standard! Just not while pvp'ing, because you can't fight in pvp without only using mechanics. Mech standard does not only mean to combat.

Want examples?

Mind magic - Metagaming if without lore - Using tells to comunicate with someone and reading the mind of other characters - Has no mechanical representation
Illusion - Powergaming and metagaming if without lore - Creation of sensations that don't exist such as pain, emotions, sight, and able to tell things to others through tells, thought they can't really respond - Has no mechanical representation

Soul puppetry - Powergaming if without lore - You curse people, and you may even kill people while on the other side of the map - Has no mechanical representation

Necromancy - Powergaming if without lore - They can taint, curse, and even use the bodies of the people just killed to aid themselves. - Has some mechanical representation.

Conjuration - Powergaming if without lore - They create creatures to do things for them - No they don't have to have a wolf/horse/cat to roleplay it.

Contract Magic - Godmoding if without lore - Forcing punishment on characters if they break some things said in a contract, sometimes even without OOC agreement - Has no mechanical representation (the effects that least, the contract is a book)

Void Translocation - Powergaming if without lore - Having things kept outside the touch of anyone else - Actually is useless with mechanics because it's impossible to actually die and not have the item taken.

Druid shapeshifting - Powergaming if without lore - They turn into animals - I wouldn't consider a skin a representation, but I guess maybe.

 

There are probably more but those are the ones I got. Red means locked, green is semi-locked, meaning you probably need at least someone guiding you OOC'ly because there isn't enough information for you to roleplay without aid.

[mmat 7461]

Cappy, most magic breaks mech standard. If you're talking about combat, it still breaks mech standard! Just not while pvp'ing, because you can't fight in pvp without only using mechanics. Mech standard does not only mean to combat.

Want examples?

Mind magic - Metagaming if without lore - Using tells to comunicate with someone and reading the mind of other characters - Has no mechanical representation

Illusion - Powergaming and metagaming if without lore - Creation of sensations that don't exist such as pain, emotions, sight, and able to tell things to others through tells, thought they can't really respond - Has no mechanical representation

Soul puppetry - Powergaming if without lore - You curse people, and you may even kill people while on the other side of the map - Has no mechanical representation

Necromancy - Powergaming if without lore - They can taint, curse, and even use the bodies of the people just killed to aid themselves. - Has some mechanical representation.

Conjuration - Powergaming if without lore - They create creatures to do things for them - No they don't have to have a wolf/horse/cat to roleplay it.

Contract Magic - Godmoding if without lore - Forcing punishment on characters if they break some things said in a contract, sometimes even without OOC agreement - Has no mechanical representation (the effects that least, the contract is a book)

Void Translocation - Powergaming if without lore - Having things kept outside the touch of anyone else - Actually is useless with mechanics because it's impossible to actually die and not have the item taken.

Druid shapeshifting - Powergaming if without lore - They turn into animals - I wouldn't consider a skin a representation, but I guess maybe.

 

There are probably more but those are the ones I got. Red means locked, green is semi-locked, meaning you probably need at least someone guiding you OOC'ly because there isn't enough information for you to roleplay without aid.

 

I want a magic lore purge, we don't need all of this. Necromancy is the only one on that list that should actually exist. Magic is supposed to be open, not as rigid as this. I hate all this player created magic because its niche and only used by the creators, for their own enjoyment. In the majority of cases.

 

As I said earlier, remove all combat magic except for the main antagonist magic which would have a plugin to represent it in combat, this would root out all mage users who just use it to become a special snowflake magic strongman.

[Jachnun 566]

Cappy, most magic breaks mech standard. If you're talking about combat, it still breaks mech standard! Just not while pvp'ing, because you can't fight in pvp without only using mechanics. Mech standard does not only mean to combat.

Want examples?

Mind magic - Metagaming if without lore - Using tells to comunicate with someone and reading the mind of other characters - Has no mechanical representation

Illusion - Powergaming and metagaming if without lore - Creation of sensations that don't exist such as pain, emotions, sight, and able to tell things to others through tells, thought they can't really respond - Has no mechanical representation

Soul puppetry - Powergaming if without lore - You curse people, and you may even kill people while on the other side of the map - Has no mechanical representation

Necromancy - Powergaming if without lore - They can taint, curse, and even use the bodies of the people just killed to aid themselves. - Has some mechanical representation.

Conjuration - Powergaming if without lore - They create creatures to do things for them - No they don't have to have a wolf/horse/cat to roleplay it.

Contract Magic - Godmoding if without lore - Forcing punishment on characters if they break some things said in a contract, sometimes even without OOC agreement - Has no mechanical representation (the effects that least, the contract is a book)

Void Translocation - Powergaming if without lore - Having things kept outside the touch of anyone else - Actually is useless with mechanics because it's impossible to actually die and not have the item taken.

Druid shapeshifting - Powergaming if without lore - They turn into animals - I wouldn't consider a skin a representation, but I guess maybe.

 

There are probably more but those are the ones I got. Red means locked, green is semi-locked, meaning you probably need at least someone guiding you OOC'ly because there isn't enough information for you to roleplay without aid.

Simple solution just like necromancy and what not, lock those magic sub-types! 

[Mankaar 166]

Lord of The Rings has elves. It also has giant trees. And dragons. It doesn't have common magic, though. I don't see what you're trying to prove.

 

Show me where I once said magic was for the 'elite'. Show me where I once said it should take months to learn. Please, show me. I beg you.

 

Not once have I said people shouldn't be able to get magic. My opinion is that there should be regulated means of getting it, as a way to improve the quality of magic as a whole. Because, right now? Aside from the locked subtypes, the usual quality of magic rp is abysmal. I don't want to make people unable to be mages. I want to make sure those people are able to properly roleplay magic. If they are self-taught and can demonstrate an understanding of how it works? Of how to RP it? Let them have it.

 

This isn't lord of the rings, and if it's abysmal get up and do something about it. Helping people is not hard, some of us need to get it out of our head that "magic is to tough to teach oocly without teachers" because it's not. get them to follow the guidelines it's that simple, if they continue to abuse magic even with help make a report or get some high tier assistance. Cappy has hit all the prime point's in his posts and I couldn't agree more.

[Cappy 1599]

I want a magic lore purge, we don't need all of this. Necromancy is the only one on that list that should actually exist. Magic is supposed to be open, not as rigid as this. I hate all this player created magic because its niche and only used by the creators, for their own enjoyment. In the majority of cases.

^^

 

As I said earlier, remove all combat magic except for the main antagonist magic which would have a plugin to represent it in combat, this would root out all mage users who just use it to become a special snowflake magic strongman.

Don't agree with this part, though. Combat magic should still exist. I personally like magic being represented by standard mechanical fighting and participants using their imaginations. I would be all for mechanical combat magic spells being reserved for antagonist/protagonist groups (although that's another can of worms entirely).

[Aelu / Rel (Combustionary) 1535]

 

First of all, elder scrolls also has elves, even /more/ types of elves its even more fantasy orientad than lord of the rings and magic is very common lol. Now the thing is you seem to be very elite with the idea of regulated magic. Regulated magic is different then what you were suggesting which was to bring back the MAT. Thats not regulated, thats nsa regulated, thats an all boy prepp school regulated. Regulated would be the community helping each other out. When you see a kid pg with magic don't be like "uh bring MAT plox!!!" just help the poor kid out. It seems elitist that you beg to be special with this system back, you don't need that to regulate things.

What I want to 'bring back' is nothing near the level of the old MAT. What I think would work, is quite simple.

-MAT's job is to keep a list of mages, add new mages.

-To get magic, you either

-a) Post your name, magic type, and teacher. Teacher posts to confirm. Learn at whatever pace you desire.

-b) Post your name, magic type, and briefly summarize how your character learned (Like, one paragraph tops) and learn at your own pace.

-In extreme cases, MAT can remove repeat offenders from magic.

My first MA took about three hours to write. This would take roughly three minutes. Maybe five if you're self-taught.

You underestimate Telanir. This has been accounted for.

Which I'm thankful for, but I suppose I'll be relieved when I see it. Or a post is made fully describing how it works. I saw too many of Vaq's promises of "It'll work" to trust anything plugin-relating thing without an actual explanation. That's just my thing, though. We'll see.

[Jistuma 1995]

Simple solution just like necromancy and what not, lock those magic sub-types! 

That post was a response to Cappy saying they were all mech standard, I think he wants them all unlocked.

 

I want a magic lore purge, we don't need all of this. Necromancy is the only one on that list that should actually exist. Magic is supposed to be open, not as rigid as this. I hate all this player created magic because its niche and only used by the creators, for their own enjoyment. In the majority of cases.

 

As I said earlier, remove all combat magic except for the main antagonist magic which would have a plugin to represent it in combat, this would root out all mage users who just use it to become a special snowflake magic strongman.

So you want magic to just be mechanics? Where is the magic in that? Where is the use in that? If you haven't noticed, most of the magics I made of example are... actually non combat related. Mind magic, Illusion, contract, soul puppetry, void translocation, druid shapeshifting, even necromancy for most of it. Those aren't combat magics, they are just magics that break mechanical standard in other ways. Without lore, without guidelines, all those things that the magics do would not be able to be roleplayed, the lore of the magic opened the roleplay by removing the mech standard in those ocasions.

[Jachnun 566]

What I want to 'bring back' is nothing near the level of the old MAT. What I think would work, is quite simple.

-MAT's job is to keep a list of mages, add new mages.

-To get magic, you either

-a) Post your name, magic type, and teacher. Teacher posts to confirm. Learn at whatever pace you desire.

-b) Post your name, magic type, and briefly summarize how your character learned (Like, one paragraph tops) and learn at your own pace.

-In extreme cases, MAT can remove repeat offenders from magic.

My first MA took about three hours to write. This would take roughly three minutes. Maybe five if you're self-taught.

I would still think this is overtly strict, and would appreciate if you and the rest of the magic community would take their time to help those who offend instead of forcing other people to do it for you. 

 

As for Jistuma, you can do both lol. Why one or the other?? Just like regular combat these days, some people chose to rp combat or chose to pvp at some places. And if the magic is non-combat related why would it be mech standard if most mech standard magic is solely for combat lol? 

[Pandan 1448]

The topic of magic wont be resolved, ever. People will always complain and have their own opinions, at the end of the day what we are restricted too is their choice not ours, so, if you disagree then there is likely to be one who agrees. 

 

Opinions. Why evolution. 

 

 

(( I also propose a lock to this post, it's been thrown completely off topic and is once again brewing up a shitstorm. ))

[E__V__O 1984]

I know, I know- read all comments and everything though what slides past is...

 

Why a magic purge should happen?

Why should magic locking happen? (besides guild magic)

 

All of this can be solved simply with one word, Plugin.

Oh, but what am I talking about? The magic plug-in which comes in 4.0.

Why would this make a difference? You need to physically find a tomb, or get granted a few spells.

Why not just a magic purge? since no one will be grandfathered OP magic and mostly just the basic spells, eg- fireball.

How does it even counter people? You learn magic over a long period amount of time, you become more experienced, you loose 10 hearts perm.

---

Just wait for 4.0 for it all to be solved, leave it there and done, anyone can get magic from the plug-in than RP what they have... Simple.