My Proposal To Fully Unlock Alteration/transfiguration/whatever You Call It Once More

[ski_king3 0]

As the title would suggest, I want the magic that has been known as alteration, transfiguration, transmogrification and a number of other names to be fully unlocked once more (aka, not under the restrictions made by this post). I believe currently, it's in a state in which you must learn it IC from a teacher to RP, which I personally think is a bit silly. Here's why:

 

While it's supposedly a complicated magic, the complicated parts don't actually matter all that much. Sure, there are details about how enchantments work, how wards work, and how transmutation works. These details are a bit tricky, to the extent that way back in the day, the MAT had trouble finishing up a guide for this magic because Cruz, our resident expert at the time, had some trouble working them out. However, the important stuff is pretty straightforward... don't make god weapons of mass destruction, don't think your wards will block all magic forever, don't make something out of nothing (although that can really now be treated as evocation or some new type of magic). The major threats of powergaming from this magic are pretty straightforward and it's common sense that you shouldn't do them. If not, it doesn't take an expert to explain when someone is crossing a major line. Sure, there are little details about the magic that make it interesting and more complex, but those are really there for the enjoyment of the RP'er anyways, and don't have a lot of value beyond personal enjoyment.

 

The idea that people will start mass-producing enchanted weapons is a myth. Quite simply, if the weapon ain't shiny, nobody will consider it enchanted. If it doesn't have a name indicating some special RP enchant, people likely won't consider it enchanted. And if it isn't MC'ly enchanted, it won't help much in PVP. People RP'ing alteration can't suddenly poof enchants on their weapons, and no GM worth their salt will answer a modreq saying "I'm an alterationist and wish to get enchants on my sword" with anything other than some variation of "no." This isn't a threat, and will never be one so long as PVP default and the mechanical standard reign supreme.

 

Unless I misunderstand the mechanical standard, people can just say their weapons have RP enchants anyways. Doing this doesn't go against MC mechanics, so I believe one could go into an RP fight saying their had some (reasonable) RP enchant regardless of alteration. Even if this is against the rules (which I'm pretty sure it's not, strictly speaking), it would be a hassle to strictly enforce that enchants came from the proper place in RP, especially when they're meaningless in PVP.

 

There's no major threat of metagaming or poweremoting from alteration. To those of you who remember, alteration was given restrictions at the same time that mental magic was. People were using mental magic to metagame and control people (poweremote/powergame), so it got restricted. Alteration doesn't have this threat in any serious way (sure, you can enchant a mind-reader/mind-control item, but again, no GM worth their salt would say that's acceptable without the other player's approval).

 

Alteration has a ton of opportunity to create harmless, fun roleplay. Seriously, for all you wanting to see more non-combat magic (not sure if this is still in demand, but please play along), I remember seeing alterationists like Cruz, Heero and Moot do all sorts of silly stuff with this. There's no reason this fun, interesting avenue of RP needs to be restricted to only those who've directly learned it from another. Open up the floodgates fellas, it's time for some cool RP.

 

 

So yah, there are my reasons for wanting this to be fully unlocked again. I will admit, my memory is a bit hazy on how this magic works, so I could be forgetting some blaring detail that shatters my argument to pieces. However, I'm pretty sure my argument is pretty simple and reasonable, and lacks major holes. However, I encourage you to try to tear it to tiny little pieces :)

[Hydra 513]

Or you could join the mages guild...

[ski_king3 0]

Or you could join the mages guild...

 

The thing is, I don't want to, and many people don't want to. You shouldn't need to befriend other mages to get magic or lock specific subtypes within guilds. It's unnecessarily restrictive and allows groups to exist purely because of the fact that they have magic rather than the fact that they create fun RP.

[Sky 0]

What's the difference between this and other subtypes that were unlocked? What was the reason for locking this?

[ski_king3 0]

What's the difference between this and other subtypes that were unlocked? What was the reason for locking this?

Players of this subtype require an IC teacher to learn this magic, while most arcane magics can be learned without one. The thread I linked which caused this change didn't give a lot of explanation for why this was locked, but my understanding is mostly that it was locked because it's apparently more complicated. I'm not totally sure what the sound rational for it being locked is beyond that, which is why I propose this change.

My guess is Lago will come about at some point and give a better explanation, as I linked this to him and he's more aware of this than I am.

[Aelu / Rel (Combustionary) 1535]

Let's not.

 

If you want it, there are IC processes to getting it. Making it too open will just devalue the subtype as a whole.

[ski_king3 0]

Let's not.

 

If you want it, there are IC processes to getting it. Making it too open will just devalue the subtype as a whole.

How will it devalue it. Magic isn't a zero sum game, having more people able to access it doesn't make the users who already have it any less interesting or compelling of characters.

[Sky 0]

I'd be all for 100% unlocking/re-locking of all magic.

[Aelu / Rel (Combustionary) 1535]

How will it devalue it. Magic isn't a zero sum game, having more people able to access it doesn't make the users who already have it any less interesting or compelling of characters.

 

Without proper teaching, the overall quality of its users will decline. Some who get it via being opened would RP it correctly, but as time went on, more and more wouldn't. Keeping it relatively exclusive (Looking at the old list on the other topic? I already see a few names who still play and have it - And aren't Mage's Guild) means it has a higher standard of quality. 

 

Considering the fact that the magic relates directly to items in MC (I've still a few items with enchantments, ranging from practical to purely aesthetic), the possibilities of what it can do correlates directly with the standard of quality it is RPed at. If the magic is regarded as rare, with the few who have it knowing what they're doing, the staff will likely be more trusting to allow more interesting and complex (Not saying OP) enchantments. If it becomes open and common, I'd imagine the staff would do the opposite - Why reward a player who woke up one day with alteration with anything more than a small lighter?

 

I'd much rather we go for 100% locking, than 100% unlocking. The lack of regulation is one of the reasons the community has fallen so far.

[ski_king3 0]

I'd be all for 100% unlocking/re-locking of all magic.

I'm down with 100% unlocking, but I think the only way that can happen is with baby steps. My hope is that the magic plugin will result in that, however.

[DruinsBane 240]

I'm inclined to believe it has role-play reasoning, akin to some of the other magic sub-types rather than an out of character agenda. Whether it can be rendered null by out of character sway is discouraging to say the least.

[Cyndikate 2302]

The thing is, I don't want to, and many people don't want to. You shouldn't need to befriend other mages to get magic or lock specific subtypes within guilds. It's unnecessarily restrictive and allows groups to exist purely because of the fact that they have magic rather than the fact that they create fun RP.

If you don't want to go on a journey to get the magic, then you don't deserve it anyway.

I loathe people who want things handed to them without working for it.

Let's not unlock anything that's locked. In fact, let's lock up everything because the quality of magic RP has diminished due to people not knowing what they're doing, because of how complex magic is. Nobody takes you seriously anymore. You are severely devalued because everyone and their cat has your magic and got it for free.

[Jistuma 1995]

Well, transfiguration was locked because not even the players that did transfiguration really knew what they could and couldn't do, and then there was the enchanting problem. You can do a lot with transfiguration, expecially with enchanting, so much interesting roleplay can happen with it, so many interesting things, but you know very well what normally happens when people have access to magic with various means of use... they use it for combat.

Doesn't have much problem anymore with PVP default? Of course it has, many players still enjoy good fights in roleplay. With enchanting and warding mainly, someone can easily abuse it and the other person won't even know it's powergaming because transfiguration is just that hard to know.

Enchanting can make weapons better, can create 'life', can make things automated, can make them have magic working without the person having to be casting it, and many more things.

For wards players haven't yet realised that they NEED to know about the magic they are warding to stop it (as in know how it works), and normally just do wards that stop magic in general or one type of magic they don't want there.

Transmutation had that problem of people breaking through walls with it. It's not so complicated to understand, but players don't realise that it would take time to do, it wouldn't be instantaneous, and that they need to know what they are transmuting. And of course know what equivalent exchange is.

It took a long time to get a guide created, thought I wouldn't really be against unlocking most of the magic, expecially transmutation if they follow mech standard and the other rules, so they don't go around making holes in houses, but roll instead like everyone else to try and get into them. Transmutation has some very interesting things I believe, like for smiths, glassworkers, sculptures and etc, because they can shape the material using various ways of changing it.

Enchanting on the other hand... has a problem, a big problem in my opinion,which is not the weapon one. If made open, it will have a large influx of magical items, which will make them lose their 'magic', as in uniqueness. Right now, a glowing orb that changes color through day and night is still slightly 'rare', but with open enchanting, that would be a cake walk to create, like really simple. Everyonce could have magical items and they would lose their effect as something interesting.

Warding I'm in a middle ground. If rp'ed corretly then there wouldn't be much problems with it, but there will be. A guild would probably be able to ward their castle of all magics if needed, and when confronted with how they had the knowledge to do it, well, it's an open magic, you just have different people do different magic wards.

So, I believe enchanting is still very special type of magic that should remain lock because of what it can do, warding I'm in the middle ground but wouldn't have much problems right not because there finally is a guide on it, and transmutation wouldn't have much problems because there is a guide on it.

I guess I can talk to the rest of the LM's and check what they think about rechanging, at least part of it.

[Lago 2569]

Alteration is a unique case in that it's one of the only two subtypes locked (short for "guildlocked", for those who don't know, "locking" means to acquire the magic you have to learn it from another character ingame, as opposed to free, where you can learn it from books or in backstory) for out-of-character reasons, the other being Mental Magic. Every other subtype can only be learned from a teacher has that status for in-character reasons: they're rare magics jealously guarded by the guilds the possess them in character.

 

Mental Magic I personally wanted to outright remove as with the removal of the MA it was rapidly becoming long-range metamancy. It was instead argued it should be locked instead so it wasn't wiped out. For some reason, Alteration followed.

Unlike 2nd-Gen Necromancy, Shamanism and the like, Alteration is a widely known and documented magic and is locked entirely for out of character reasons. Given mechanical standard and PvP default I see no reason to keep it so. Alteration is magic magic, and we have all the mechanisms in place already to prevent abuse of it.

[monkeypoacher 6993]

If you don't want to go on a journey to get the magic, then you don't deserve it anyway.

I loathe people who want things handed to them without working for it.

Let's not unlock anything that's locked. In fact, let's lock up everything because the quality of magic RP has diminished due to people not knowing what they're doing, because of how complex magic is. Nobody takes you seriously anymore. You are severely devalued because everyone and their cat has your magic and got it for free.

 

Cripes.

 

So I should have to work to get stuff in a Minecraft fantasy role-play server? I sincerely thought this was a game, and the fun was in being creative and exploring possibilities. Trust me, if I wanted to go work on something that took 1-6 months, I'd go buy an electric guitar or a book on C++ (Admittedly both of them would take more time than learning spoopy lotc magic, and also my estimate for the time it takes to learn magic is MAT era, but hey whatever). 

 

People should be able to skip the journey if they want, because sometimes people have **** to do in real life that prevents them from funneling ludicrous amounts of time into a minecraft server, and, t'is a minecraft server.