gam 386 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Look, this is something that has been followed for over 3 years. If you (speaking to the Lore Team) had spoken to us about it when you decided to change it up, we could have told you about it, discussed it, and this could have all been avoided. But you didn't, and here we are. We're asking you to help us out here. Sure, the others who got to this thread before me could have been a bit more polite about it, and we could have had a nice, peaceful discussion, but we're past that now. Just throw us a bone for once. Jistuma says that the lore teams decision "is not a new thing", but the lore that we've been following for 3 years "is not a new thing" either. We understand that you're prideful, that you don't like to be told that you're wrong; but so are we, and we're just going to continue to go head to head with each other until somebody gives in, and it's not going to be us. Why are you fighting so hard for this? Literally all you will have to do is write down a few sentences. This decision barely even affects you, if at all, both ICly and OOCly. Is it worth the fight to you, really? This is something that is important to us dwarves. It affects a lot of our roleplay, and a lot of the things that have been building up for over three years. Just help us out for once guys. Seriously. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
River 555 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Just to point out, this discussion doesn't end after this thread dies, or is closed. To the LT looking at this we are going to continue fighting this until we get what we want passed. It really isn't that hard, so If I were you I'd start making some kind of plan to meet with the dwarves, or come into our TS and ask us of our opinions at some planned point so you can get as much of our opinion as you can before changing lore, of a race that you know nothing about, or have little to no experience without consulting any dwarves, who RP this kind of stuff when they're on the server, all day, every day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supremacy 3361 Share Posted July 28, 2014 501warhead and Lagomorphia are both arguably definitely "dwarven" LMs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mankaar 166 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Regardless of what the LMs or GMs say about this matter we will stand for our lore and you will have to ban every single one of us if you wish to too end in such a way that does not please the playerbase, I myself will stand for it as a Grandaxe knowing magic makes no sense and ruins our lore that had been here since I've even joined the server. We also need a GM, we're probably the most bullied race by staff on the server. Are you two serious? This literally just derails this whole discussion and makes you appear like children having a temper tantrum. No one is taking away your freedom of speech, no one is purposely bullying you so please stop acting like you're being attacked. why can't you just sort this out without acting like the world is against you. My opinion on the matter now: If the lore was changed a year ago and Dwarves knew then so I don't see the massive issue here ((according to Jistuma)). Not to mention the fact you would be restricting magic ((not a huge fan of that)). So why not just handle it through roleplay like others have stated? Assume all Dwarves using magic are in fact Ironguts, I mean that's really no different from saying they are. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindmind 350 Share Posted July 28, 2014 "Dwarves from their mighty halls, of stone, hardened and sturdy." (http://www.lordofthecraft.net/topic/4621-the-history-of-magic/?hl=magic ) This is the explanation granted towards the use of runesmithing, golemancy, beardmancy and other dwarven magics, but lore written for our race around the same time tells that we traded our connection to the void in exchange for a longer lifespan (I think) That thread doesn't give reason for our connection tot he void because countless lore written after that has changed the state of magic since then. The power of Iblees was great, even in void, and he worked at unravelling the barrier between the worlds... Soon the barrier began to break down, the Undead taint spread once more across the face of Aegis. Although this time there was little hope for salvation...With the failing of the barrier protecting the world of the living from the dead the magic lost to the Descendants, all those years ago, once again seeped into the fabric of the world. The people of Aegis once more felt a somewhat unfamiliar tingle in their blood, unfamiliar but as though it was always there. This is pretty important to the way magic works (or worked if we're arguing this is not the case anymore). The link is still valid in this context since many of the people here are saying their lore takes precedent due to the fact that it was in practice during Aegis. Likewise, I say this lore was fact during Aegis, regardless of its status, now. The point is, saying your lore is practiced doesn't necessarily mean it was legal, so to speak, when the lore at the time stated that magic rekindled in all the peoples of Aegis. What the Lore Masters are stating is more or less a reiteration of how magic worked to begin with. To sum up, this seems more like a cultural issue than a factual one. I believe Luchian made a post in the thread preceding this one about how Dwarves are taught to believe they cannot connect with the Void, and that's perfectly logical. Cultural barriers can be strong ones. However, nobody has really provided any palpable reason or proof as to why this is not a cultural issue and down-to-the-DNA mechanical issue specific to dwarves. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski_king3 0 Share Posted July 28, 2014 I dunno, I'm half inclined to believe he does just that.... though you forgot the acid pit. (I joke)As for the actual issue.... our magic "Resistance" is perfectly explained with the extra hearts, especially considering its hard to be resistant to say..... fire. Void evocation fire is still fire, it will still burn you.As for the Irongut thing? If any dwarf can say they have Irongut blood deep in their ancestory then we don't even really need LM approval do we? Its not like we are doing something that really effects anyone in a major way, and we can believe what we like IC. It can still be part of our culture without having one of the bighats say yes to arbitrary knowledge that we will be using one way or another. +1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supremacy 3361 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Dizzy gets the point. Why bother having the debate when anyone can have the blood, you can claim anyone has the blood and ultimately it doesn't matter if they have the blood or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
River 555 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Are you two serious? This literally just derails this whole discussion and makes you appear like children having a temper tantrum. No one is taking away your freedom of speech, no one is purposely bullying you so please stop acting like you're being attacked. why can't you just sort this out without acting like the world is against you. My opinion on the matter now: If the lore was changed a year ago and Dwarves knew then so I don't see the massive issue here ((according to Jistuma)). Not to mention the fact you would be restricting magic ((not a huge fan of that)). So why not just handle it through roleplay like others have stated? Assume all Dwarves using magic are in fact Ironguts, I mean that's really no different from saying they are. "If the lore was changed a year ago and Dwarves knew then so I don't see the massive issue here" - we didn't know until like a month ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski_king3 0 Share Posted July 28, 2014 I also see this as an opportunity to create interesting roleplay, rather than a huge OOC issue. You see a dwarf using magic that refuses to accept that he has irongut blood? Then treat them as heathens or some bastardized version of a dwarf or some weird anomaly and persecute/imprison/purge/study them. In the end, the LM's desire to not canonize this inability to use magic affects very few (as someone said, nearly no dwarves have actually taken advantage of this) and can be used to provide more interesting RP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyndikate 2303 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Why did they change the dwarven lore in the first place? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supremacy 3361 Share Posted July 28, 2014 The lore was not changed, to be absolutely correct. It simply didn't exist. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rig 17581 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Dwarves can use magic. It's just frowned upon unless they're an Irongut of some sort. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fimlin 1997 Share Posted July 28, 2014 This is a thread for dwarves and LMs I find it annoying anyone who is not posts here, it is not their business and chances are they couldn't explain dwarf culture themselves, as for what has been changed the LMs have stick their nose where it doesn't belong, this is our lore we have RPed for 3 years, RP you can't void anymore than those battles we've had with Oren that we've complained about, and I 501warhead is not a dwarf, I've never even seen him besides I the 4.0 build server. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles_Grimlie 1072 Share Posted July 28, 2014 Where is the Lore that says we /CAN/ use magic? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supremacy 3361 Share Posted July 28, 2014 The standard magic lore says any sentient descendant (plus Kha) can use magic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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