Your View: Player Retention

[ski_king3 0]

The comment about the 24 hour rule. The reason this will not be changed is, if a player can not abide by a simple rule as "reapply after 24 hours" then how can we trust them to abide by any other rule. The 24 hour rule helps ensure that their application is perfected and they get a good grasp on lore. Many times when they reapply within 24 hours, there is hardly any change to the application.

 

I'm not necessarily going to advocate for removing the 24 hour rule, but your first reason isn't a real reason. The idea that ignoring the 24 hour rule and breaking rules once accepted as being correlated doesn't really make sense. They're different things and they shouldn't be lumped together.

 

That being said, there are merits to the 24 hour rule. I just hope it's still the case where if people apply 21 hours later instead of 24, they aren't getting denied because they waited slightly less time.

[Heff 2460]

FAST TRAVELLLLLLSSSSSS!!!!!!

[MamaBearJade 2090]

I'm not necessarily going to advocate for removing the 24 hour rule, but your first reason isn't a real reason. The idea that ignoring the 24 hour rule and breaking rules once accepted as being correlated doesn't really make sense. They're different things and they shouldn't be lumped together.

 

That being said, there are merits to the 24 hour rule. I just hope it's still the case where if people apply 21 hours later instead of 24, they aren't getting denied because they waited slightly less time.

 

We will not deny someone for waiting slightly less than 24 hours. We deny if they are posting application after application within hours of each other. We have had to make adjustments for those situations, which we can talk privately about later if you wish Ski ^_^

[Elindor 666]

I would be one to agree with having the professions plugin, but one more in line with the Telanir's original plan. That is, additive skills not subtractive lack of skills. So the vanilla experience is (relatively) unhindered and the comforts of playing minecraft are there so that all players know what it is that they are doing. Then the professions is simply a plugin that is additional to minecraft and not a complete overhaul of the basic mechanics that every player knows, and still provides a reward for commitment to your skill(s).

 

 

Retaining players is not something that I have much of a 'valuable' opinion of, and yet at the same time perhaps my opinion is incredibly more valuable. Why? Because after 3 and a half years I am no longer being retained. And there are many reasons for it, but the chief thing that motivates me to not bother logging back in when I do give the occasional attempt is that the roleplay that I observe is far too domestic. And by that I mean it is localised. And childish.

As an outsider it is very hard to find anything worth getting involved in, and so I understand why newer players just walk right up to you and interrupt whatever you are doing. Because that's the only real way to be included. Looking around I typically see people having small conversations and that is it. And those conversations are most of the time about domestic issues. Like your sister or friend or a happening in your guild group. And frankly it tires me just to watch the roleplay, let alone get involved in it.

 

The difference between this and my old observations is that when I used to sit down for long conversations I would often feel this sense that even though nothing was happening the topic of conversation had an undertone of action to it. And you would inevitably get interrupted by something taking place.

 

Why this refocus inward? Why is RP no longer about telling big stories together? Well let me suggest two things that I believe to be motivators. Firstly is no common goal. That's right. Antagonist. Return of the Undead meant a whole heck of a lot for me because it meant that suddenly there would be an urgency that would shake up all roleplay. But the way the game is played (my second point which will be addressed shortly) apparently ruined that and an antagonist was no longer 'wanted'. I highly disagree and think it was a very misinformed decision to bench them but then the staff that brought them back is completely different to the staff that quietened them and there is no server-wide vision to unite their views so... its a darned shame. But to move on to why the common goal matters. When you are sitting by yourself with not much to do you can allow your characters mind to wander, and with an impending fear that some dark force desires to destroy everything you believe in those thoughts become a need for action You simply can NOT sit in your garden and talk to your sister about what James did with Phil yesterday because that is insignificant.

 

And my second suggestion is the logistics of action when it does take place. Yup. Its PVP. And sure, even in Aegis stuff inevitably got handled in PVP, but it wasn't considered any sort of "standard". The players were just telling the story with the tools at hand, and when there was no more talking to be done or showing off flourishes and flips and dark tendrils or what-have-you it became MC mechanics click-off. But the difference was that the focus wasn't on the PVP and the outcome of said PVP. And you might well easily argue that my last sentence is not true, however consider this. Someone has a pimple and you see it. Eww pimple. Now go back 20 seconds, you meet someone and shake hands and they say "sorry about my giant pulsating pimple". Now rather than noticing the pimple after looking at their face you go straightaway looking for that red mountain of puss. Then you see it. Ergh its hideous.

What is the difference? By pointing something out as important you subconsciously give it more value than it has. So when a hasty resolution is given the focus, hasty resolution is found whether intentional or not because it is a new mindset. So even if you do RP your combat or throw a couple of rolls in there, quick outcome is an undertone.

 

So bringing it all back to be less hypothetical: What kind of roleplay is to be observed? As previously mentioned there's the domestic conversations, but what about when there IS action? Because there is. Well you see some brief talking, either party explains their motivation and then a clash of RP combat (if you're lucky) that lasts for a few hits and then a countdown. All-in-all the excitement from beginning to end took 10 minutes. And then we sit around in our little guild/family/friend group and talk about it for 30 minutes when in reality the action was of little to no consequence because they'll be back before you've finished talking about their death and nothing had any greater value for story.

[Katiesc 130]

As a new player, I can completely remember the confusion of the first week on the server;

 

First, the wiki as of for the lore was and is completely confusing. There was too many pages that was either outdated or a tad bit too much information for a new player to take in at once. It would be helpful just to have a page that is simple for new players to easily take in without any confusion. I had a hard time finding a current city that existed before my character's birth, it took awhile for me to find a city that my character could originate from. Or just organize the wiki and rewrite some pages.

 

Second, a chat that you automatically spawn into(?). I don't know if it was /just/ me, though I couldn't talk at all and I was completely confused. I was ready to just quit, but someone came by and helped me.

 

Third, in game wise I was starving to death. I was very confused as of shops, why couldn't I just pick up the floating block of hay? I never thought about right clicking the stone slab, starting out with food is a brilliant idea rather than just lost. Not to mention Cloud Temple is very isolated for new players, yes it does give them time to test out how to use the plugins before taking on role-play with other players but it is just too isolated. I became frustrated because I couldn't find role-play, and if I did it was Orcs attempting to eat the 'mute' girl because I was confused with chats. But somewhere that patient people will devote their time into helping a new players would be nice, somewhere between not too much role-play though just enough for new players to sprout and want to stay at Lord of the Craft.

 

#thatsallfromme

[Space 2335]

I dunno how many players want to come on to the server, at least initially, for the AWESOME profession and custom mechanics we have. I think they come to roleplay. So perhaps we need to make it easier for people to just RP, and not worry about all the other things.

[Hanrahan 2983]

I spent the first.. at least 2-3 months living in the wilds, just RPing with friends. You can't do that these days, and you're brutally put down if you do.

 

I'd occasionally make forays into the cities with

 

ASULONIAN FAST TRAVEL (<3)

 

And that'd balance out my isolation with gradual community involvement. As I became a regular, I left the wilds altogether and started with mainstream RP. We lack that soo much.

[Ergent Seth 141]

Hi.

 

I was lurking around for a bit and I spotted this thread. Bear in mind that I’ve only been on the current map for literally fifteen minutes, so this is to be taken with a grain of salt. My information is most likely inconsistent and I apologize if I am wrong about multiple topics. That being said, hello I am Ergent Seth. I have been a member of the Lord of the Craft community since October 5th of 2011. Normally I kept quiet about server issues unless it was to diffuse arguments. I have always felt that my word wouldn’t mean anything within the heated conflicts from previous threads. I have never felt that what I would say would be productive so I jumped ship, moved on with my life, and I just forgot about it. 

 

 

 

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Now what am I doing here? Like any bored college student on spring break, I decided to take a nostalgia trip which brought me back here. I lurked the forums for a bit seeing if anything changed and I was duly impressed. The server’s outlook and feedback had a bit more positivity in comparison to when I left. A step in the right direction

 

However after browsing this thread it is clear that there are still a numerous amount of issues especially when focussing on player retention. I’ve always been itching to speak out about this topic especially, and I think this is the perfect opportunity for me to bring up a few things.

 

As a new player within an RP server, you will always have an ideal visualization of what you want your character to do/be in the future. A sort of dream or goal you would want your character to pursue: be it start a business, a guild, go to a school, fight for justice or injustice, etc. However there are a numerous hurdles that the current map puts each new player through:

 

 

 

>> Player Applications

- No problem with these other than conveniency issues and time consumption.

I don't have an issue with this. Although I have not in-depthly looked at the new process, player applications in my opinion are beneficial towards quality. The only collective gripe I see with them is with their leniency/time-consumption so perhaps that could change.

 

 

>> Spawning

- Cloud temple is something that I think should stay (more of personal sentimental value to be honest). Monk sites should be a thing in each race’s spawn.

The cloud temple has been an ideal image for the Lord of the Craft and I honestly would hate to see this go away. However the need for better spawning is important. There has been talk about a tutorial island, but it is something I disagree with. I think having a tutorial for a crafting/professions plugin is a huge hurdle that shouldn’t even exist. A secluded tutorial cloud temple that is inaccessible after completion of said tutorial would suffice. People would only return to the cloud temple if they wish to access a different persona at a different location. As for the actual spawns, there should be monk sites where basic needs can be held for new players: food, wood for tools and shelter, and a mine, nothing more. Monk sites would provide players with what they need to begin the journey of their characters ideal visualization.

 

 

>> Crafting/Professions

- Not a fan of this. I think mods that take away from what a Vanilla player would normally have are more of a hinderance than anything. Mods that give more would be beneifitial.

Honestly I have never understood the purpose of these plugins and I expected these to stop after the disaster that this caused in Aegis. These to me  have always been a hinderance and problem due to the fact that there is no balancing team for these structures from what I see. There is the argument that these provide an MMO sort of sense of immersion and game but seeing as there are things that take real time to craft, this is not an MMO or immersive RPG. This is borderline microtransaction gaming, meant to pad player experience and elongate player time in the server in the least fun way possible. The biggest thing that people hate when playing games is waiting. At this point people might as well pay ninety nine cents to boost their crafting speed up to thirty seconds.

 

I still don’t understand why there should be mods for enhanced gameplay with MMORPG elements. Why not just have an RPG element of gameplay with a primary focus on aesthetic and detail? To me the smallest things impressed me in LOTC which offered bits of story, world immersion, etc. I still think the greatest mod we had were the paint chairs that everyone was able to sit on made out of half blocks/steps, signs, and paintings. Those were the ****.

 

Mods in Lord of the Craft should focus more on the RP while minecraft combat for PVP can suffice on its own (however the inclusion of mods for multiple weapon types and magic for PVP to add variety and individuality is encouraged).

 

Professions do nothing but take away from player experience, especially towards anyone new. If professions are truly necessary, give players bonuses to the profession they want to work on that a vanilla player would normally not receive. Taking away the privileges and abilities that a vanilla player would normally have hurts more than it helps.

 

 

>> Lands/Building

- Don’t be so afraid of griefers. Giving people more freedom to create their base of operations/business/home creates RP.

Back in Aegis I was part of a small inn through the King’s Road called the Tree Top Inn. The people associated with that inn gave me the greatest RP I could have ever asked for. All they wanted was a farm, and a giant tree to host the inn. Business bloomed, RP was great, it had many MANY visitors. All because it was allowed to attain and build its resources more or less freely.

 

Yes there are griefers and theives, but those who build their organizations or homes know the risk they run when building at a location. But usually griefers can be controlled, and thieves can be RP’d with. There is no need for lands to be too restrictive, other than a simple permissions system.

 

 

 

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Anything that restricts player creation also restricts RP. There are things that have worked and things that have not, so let’s take it slow because things are moving up from here. My faith in this community is slowly but surely being renewed and I hope that this server will once again reach a golden age of RP it had once before. If you read through this, thank you so much. This was just a years worth of things I wanted to say and I’m glad I finally got it through. Hope everyone’s day goes well.

 

-- Seth out

[KarmaDelta 969]

More leniency with applications.

Dear god, put more on pending instead of flat out denying them after the first one or two pends. Give people a better chance instead of being put off by a 24 hour time limit.

 

I understand it's up to the team, but dear god help the players more instead of pushing them off to the side and doing other applications to boost your count. Do 3 or 4 at a time while your waiting on some to pend. Denying should be the last bullet in your gun. If it's straight up not cut out for a pending, like they're not listening to your advice, then bam, deny. I am seeing so many denies on the feed it's like I am looking at high school love letters to your sweetie and she's denying every boy/man that goes to confess.

 

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Racial spawns, but keep the CT like everyone else has said. Seems pretty convenient for people so new players dont have to wander off to collect supplies but to be sad when they cant break jack.

 

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Get rid of halflings. They're the worst thing that new players can join and should be considered dead and not a race at all.

 

That's about it from me.

[Alakabam 582]

Professions plugin is fine. Please add back tails. Last week I tried to play a cat and people were telling me that this conflicted with the rules, if I want to roleplay a cat on the server I should be able to. I got attacked and banned out of several cities cuz they said I ruined their rp and dynamic rp. That being said I'd also like to be able to play whatever I like cause of the best things are ruined by the profession plugin. Kthanks

[Z3r05t4r 855]

Going quickly through some of the noted things.

 

1. Fast travels or racial spawns. I would advise the former, in avoidance to make the Cloud Temple entirely defunct. But adding clearly denoted fast-travels to capitals would help on some part.

 

In respect to new players arriving, a shame Senda's tutorial building in Petrus got replaced, redesigned, etc.

 

2. For the Nexus plugin, I am a bit impartial towards it. I like Elindor's hint of making it additive (in terms of professions) towards vanilla crafting, much like MCMMO. As for the expiration of food, extend the base time limit for food perhaps, but do not remove it. Anyone with even a remote sense of money, knows that the expiration system was purposed to offer the job of being a farmer some profit, some importance. In Anthos the food price was so horrifyingly low (0.1 Minas for Bread in Kingston), that everyone just stockpiled it and there was literally no market for quality food or food at all. Very harmful for newcomers who had little option of earning some money with work (being a farmer the easiest to access, followed by lumberjack, mining was not an option then right now). Voting rewards as we have them now are at least dampening the issue of being a poor and new player. The current price for dough/bread is quite stable on 1 Mina, at least within Oren.

 

3. In respect to what I have noted above, give new players starting funds. Let's say 300 Minas, so they can go ahead and buy some basic things for the start. As for food, give them half a stack or a stack of Billy Bob's taters. They feed a lot, and should last some time for sprint-jumping through the world.

 

4. About the AT business, only to drop a note, during my time in the AT, I went after a five point system. If someone had more than five (major/obvious) flaws in his application, only then I'd instantly deny it, with reason of course. I have been rather lenient with most people, only once received quite a rage notice from someone who... was not happy with the system. It still should be said that I clearly stated too, for those I put on pending, that effort should not be underestimated and edits should be made properly to the points, within the 24 hours I give them.

 

Nontheless.

 

5. Magic, *snort snort*.

 

For my five cents. Anything I miss?

[hearth_ 1023]

 

Hi.

 

Mein Gott, the Tree Top Inn. By far, that was the best place for RP. I recall learning a majority of my roleplaying ability there. +1 to all of Seth's ideas and points, he knows whats up.

[John Ivory 4546]

The first step to solving your dilemma is acknowledging that Minecraft is a dying game and is no longer as extremely popular as it was during the 2011-2012 period of the server. I think we're retaining a fine amount of players for a very small minority server genre of Minecraft and that we should be proud of it. In fact, the server activity I've recently seen is at an all-time high post Exodus period.

[Cyndikate 2303]

I actually agree with Elindor. When I got back on the server, as much as I can more easily find roleplay, I just can't find the interesting ones. Roleplay consists of either Nation War/Politics, and people sitting in a corner doing slice of life, domestic, casual and dull conversations in which there's really no reason to be a part of it and it led nowhere.  Back in the day, it was action, story telling, and there was so much of it, that it kept you and your character on your toes, and that's what made the server very enjoyable back then. I don't see how anyone can tolerate standing around typing about nothing when there's more exciting things to do.

 

I also agree that a server antagonist is required to add some excitement to the server experience.

[argonian 14254]

Nexus is one of the biggest problems with player retention. When a player comes on and sees they can't even do the most basic of Minecraft features on this server it's a huge deterrent. If they're lucky they'll find out how Nexus works but they'd probably rather play on a server without a plugin like this. They did buy Minecraft to play Minecraft after all. When they search "Minecraft RP servers", they don't expect to not be allowed to actually play Minecraft. 

 

What I'd always asked for since it was first announced we were getting a skills plugin is one that is similar to that one we had in Aegis(I don't mean MCMMO which was only there for a really short amount of time, I mean the inhouse one), where you could still do everything you could do in Minecraft, but levelling up in certain skills gave you bonuses. There was no restrictions when you were a low level but the bonuses were good enough that you wanted to level up. I can't remember the bonuses but it'd usually be stuff like extra drops. New players still got to play the game they bought and then when they understood the simple skills plugin they had fun levelling up and progressing. There was nothing like craft times which just annoys people. If you really want to fix the player retention rate, either go back to default or replace Nexus with something like that. 

 

Large rant on apps in spoiler because I rambled on and it's not really on topic.

And you know, player retention wouldn't be as big a problem if apps weren't being denied for the smallest silliest things. If they were half as harsh with apps back in June-August 2011 as the AT are now, this server would never have grown large and would probably have shut down years ago. Apps get denied for using cliches in the bio or the bio being too short. That's just bloody ridiculous, this isn't a writing competition. Then there's other things like you have to include server lore in the application. The applicants then go to a lot of effort to find a server town they could have been born in only to be denied because their char is a bit too old to be born there or whatever. If the AT allowed applicants to say their char is from some made-up town or some distant land like they used to, it'd be way easier for applicants. Finding out when a certain town was founded and destroyed is really hard for someone who hasn't even joined the server yet to do so tons of them get denied for being too young or too old to be from a certain town. 

 

Another app was denied because the guy skipped from age 7 to 17. Well guess what ATs, that happens in stories! The applicant said that he spent those years working but didn't go into detail on them because nothing interesting happened. Probably one of the dumbest reasons for denial I've ever seen. I've also seen apps denied for being badly formatted which is pretty dumb since that has no effect on RP ability. I read an app a while ago that was denied because the character needed more weaknesses when the applicant said they couldn't swim or whistle. Well what more do you want, does the character have to be a bloody amputee to be accepted?

 

I just saw an applicant being denied because they're character was under 18(they were 17). Why is this a rule? You can play characters under 18, so why can't you apply as them? People used to apply as under 18 the whole time. Also, there is STILL a rule where you aren't allowed to do villainous actions in your application. VAs have been gone for over a year and this rule is still here and getting new players denied for no good reason.

 

So maybe if the ATs weren't so elitist, you got rid of the one app per 24 hour rule and you got rid of the 5 apps per month rule, player retention wouldn't be so much of a problem. We will always get new players who simply don't like the server that much and leave no matter what we do(I'm not saying that player retention shouldn't be fixed, it should and most solutions are obvious). If you stopped being so hard on the apps it wouldn't matter near as much.

 

Oh and tbh the biggest joke is how the staff justified banning people for cursing and joking in messages in the name of player retention while they keep Nexus around.

http://gyazo.com/32021d2004d55ad1f6c5a91fd2e4fae4