Let's Talk; The Magic Plugin & Magic in General

[monkeypoacher 8055]

Set this current lore on fire. It sucks, for all the reasons 501 mentioned, and even if there's no magic plugin planned, it'd be a great service to the community to re-forge the rusty lore.

[Skippy 2466]

On 10/30/2015 at 9:55 PM, Tirenas said:

Sounds good to me. I've never truly been a fan of the magic plugin.

you hate anything with a sprinkle of special snowflake arian

 

 

 

[H 820]

[AGP 3169]

Magic is pretty trash, agree.

[Gnomistry 1115]

Honestly, the magic plugin would just turn LOTC into a pvp server.

I strongly feel that's what many factions of the server are already making it into.

The problem with LOTC's magic system is that it is too factual, there is no mystery surrounding it so all aspects of the way the magic works need to be perfect for a plugin to be lore correct, and that is simply not something that is easy or worth time coding, considering that these magic types are constantly evolving and are forming other magic's. To break it down I guess Mages should just carry around the best armor and weapons and PVP default along with the others...  That's the best solution I can give, considering our combat system is mostly PVP based, hardly any RP combat is conducted due to obvious reasons.

Edited October 31, 2015 by Modern Man

[thaddeus11 75]

So the plug in that we were once again promised was going to be "soon" is scrapped ((Which lets be honest, no one, and I mean NO ONE believed that.)) because it doesn't go with lore.... We mages, which are a lot of people BTW simply want something... SOMETHING that makes it so we can either fight back in a PvP circumstance if it comes round, or a RULE, yes a RULE, not a plug in, that makes it so you have to RP with mages, I know that sounds unfair to the opposite side, but this is a RP server first and someone who puts a month to a year in of work to get something to just throw a fire ball or cast a simple illusion spell isnt equal to a few moments of some army man who put 5 minutes into signing up for it and then getting a sword... This is ridiculous and honestly i am thinking of just quitting magic in general because its not fun anymore... The lore is interesting, the RP when training my students and even when I was learning it was fun... But now I simply feel i am wasting my time with something that I put all of this time into and I get nothing out of it... Before you put all of this work into something and promise it to an entire community, THINK IT THROUGH... jeez.

 

Also, i agree, it would be much more easier to re-make the the magic lore... From the start i have always thought, like one other person has stated in the comments, that magic.... magic is to sciency, its not really magic... But hey... Just one Old Fart that has been practicing and studying the lore for half my time here....

Edited October 31, 2015 by thaddeus11

[L0rdLawyer 2272]

Tbh, what good would a magic plugin bring to the server? People complain about this server becoming a factions server all the time. You would have endless amounts of pvp'ers going to try and become mages if the plugin works wonders in pvp, and it would have become the next horse pvp. The server is better off without the plugin just as the world is better off without Halflife 3. The only thing I ask of you guys, 501 and Telanir and the other sexy coders, FIX NEXUS! That would fill in the crushed dreams of everyone on the server! <3

[Stag 3229]

Can we implement some sort of spells for staves? MC enchanting isn't LOTC enchanting. The same could be done with a few spells.

 

Fire Staff - Fireball -> May burn?

Ice Staff - Ice shard -> Applies Slow?

Healing Staff - Heals a set amount in a radius to all players

Lightning Staff - Lightning bolt

 

Just add one spell staves. Don't worry about the lore just add a mage option to pvp. Make them work like the undead aegis staves. They degrade per use. More OP ones have small amounts of use. Insert it into the enchanting plugin. High elven racial buff could finally come true -> can maybe do something with staves. A free use of the staff by double-shifting or something.

 

I would be happy with a simple plugin that doesn't have prejudice. It doesn't need it if you find a way to balance 2-10 spells for LOTC pvp.  

[WuHanXianShi14 0]

I don't see why we need a magic plugin

 

• Lag
• People will learn magic because PVP skills and not because of character progression
• Magic as a whole will become far less RP oriented and more RPG oriented

Leave magic as is. The heart of LOTC is in RP, and the heart of RP is in text emotes. Stop bringing all the important elements of RP into RPG systems of crafting or fighting.

I know PVP exists and mechanics default, but that's a failsafe and something to fall back on, not what we should be gravitating all forms of combat, or RP for that matter, towards.

[River 555]

After thinking about it, here's my proposal, and opinion of what should happen.

1. Introduce the magics that aren't iffy when it comes to lore or it's rp interactions with other magics. 
2. For the magics that you didn't do anything for, or don't really fit in well with the way the lore is, or is just hard to make plugin representation, I recommend putting it on a list that either needs to be revisited, or have lore changed for them.
3. For the magics that need to be revisited in terms of it's lore and how it doesn't play nice with other magics, make it a responsibility for the MAT to rewrite the lore's of those magics, and once they've been balanced, made clear in accordance with how magic should be operated, then that magic can either be developed and/or implemented on the server.
4. Make it a goal to add new magics to the servers magic plugin list as the lore is rewritten. 

I know that there are magics that are fine, that you just have to have some kind of representation for. I think the first thing, that does no harm to the server, and is important to see how the playerbase reacts to magic in the first place, is to get it on the server to test the waters. Sure people might be sad if their magic isn't implemented, but that's what the future for adding the other magics are. 

I'll also throw in there, there are probably some magics that can't be done mc'ly, or probably don't need an MC representation.

[Song Druid 1486]

I will speak for the Druids in this instance.  I do not think that Druid magic lore is terrible at all.  Perhaps I have a vested bias in this being one of the main writers for the lore, but still it's always had a consistent feel to it and we've worked hard to maintain it and any revisions made to it were done after much deliberation and were slight if any (specifically on the healing aspect).

Druid magic has in the forefront always been a defensive and utility style of magic.  Yes there are ways to use it offensively but I'm not even worried about that.  Have a basic magic damage spell that anyone can learn and then we can just say we used thorns to hurt you in RP, etc.

 

There are a couple flavor spells that I found useful when testing the magic plugin:

Lifewalk

Lillywalk

Cast tree

Instant bonemeal

 

These are all neat tricks that most Druids have in their arsenal (well maybe not lilywalk, but I sure did make it Arik's staple for a while.)  The tree spell really found a lot of neat situations where you could stop combat by throwing trees down and escape people.  It was effective because you could trap them in the branches and run off.  Mechanically they can't say anything because it's just as effective as clicking them to death.

Telanir asked us to specifically come up with spells for the Druids.  We came up with a huge list and narrowed it down to a solid repertoire that would work within the plugin that he had in mind.    He told me of the ones he didn't see possible and we scrapped what he thought would be too difficult.

 

I think it goes without saying that there is 100% 0 chance that we will revise Druid lore in terms of it being a Guild locked magic.  I cannot speak for other Guild locked magics but I know it would effectively destroy the order entirely.  I think there is no reason why we can't have a few GMs designated to comb over MAT apps and assign pex permissions to the spells.  So they just have to be enabled for the account.  Seems simple to me. 

 

Even though I don't want to be an ass here.....it's just more of the same.  I'm not surprised, I'm not even angry at this point.  The fact that the magic plugin didn't come out (again) is as normal to me as the falling of the leaves in autumn.  I have come to understand that we cannot depend on the tech team to actually provide us with a system.  Then turn around and have the audacity to blame it on the lore when there are other ways to work it in place.

 

-----------------------------------------------

Now to the fellow a few posts back who said this would be a detriment to PVP.....Yeah, obviously.  PVP is currently used in order to squash people with magic even if they could hold their own in an actual battle.  You're effectively verifying the mindset of PVP > RP in your statement.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Areon 947]

We knew it would never come.

 

[Wolf Druid Ouity 1461]

Maybe the problem is looking at it as if you were designing an MMO game where equal access and opportunity are the keystones to a successful system. We're not an MMO- we shouldn't be trying to emulate an MMO. This is a whitelist RP server. Everything about it is exclusive from the moment you get in, and trying to rethink the magic lore to make a plugin fit in a bit easier is, at best, a horrible idea, and at worst, a huge failure in the decision making process by the staff by modifying or trashing years of player made content for some dumb plugin that everybody gave up on three years ago anyway.

[Neri 3590]

I dont understand why it can't be manually assigned and regulated by the MAT. The MAT knows the difference between an eager magic RP'er and someone who is just trying to win PVP a little bit harder. 

Then again I am hardly surprised. This is the norm now.

[MysticalStranger 79]

 

Hopes and dreams destroyed all in one post.

 

I guess mages will just have to continue to drop all RP logic and become knights in MC-mechanics PVP encounters to stand any chance, considering no one ever actually RP-PVPs and just immediately goes to MC-mechanics PVP, which is 10x easier for children and memers who just can't RP.

Why can't you just select certain magic types (Like the basic elements for instance, earth, fire,water,air, ect) and keep all of the other more complex wishy washy magic lore (Mind magic, blood magic, ect) to RP as it is now? This really screws any magic guilds or mages in general because of MC mechanics PVP, which almost everyone defaults to so they can avoid any RP they can't beat happening.

Its toxic how much people will avoid RP combat with someone they know has magic, because logically a knight might not have a chance against a pyromancer, who could melt them alive in their armor if the have enough skill and training. It takes months to develop and learn magic in RP, and it takes maybe a month to upgrade your smiting skill to make a really good sword and armor for MC-mechanics PVP.

Tons of effort to learn magic, around 2-4 months for no reward because in the end of the day say someone tries to mug you for all of your things. You can't defend yourself and burn them or anything because after they shout "Stand and deliver! Drop all of your things or die!" they are immediately in full plate out of nowhere asking if you are ready for MC PVP mechanics combat.

I appreciate all the effort the Tech team does for the server, without them there wouldn't even be server plugins, but I just don't feel that this was the right choice.

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