oblivionsbane 714 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Firstly, I'd implore you that if you are upset after reading the post that this is a response to, to take a few deep breaths and calm down. Now, I ask this of you because what I just read, "We Don't Trust You," was one of the most blatantly manipulative pieces of text I have ever laid eyes on. It made me think of a speech a future dictator might give during his more humble days as a revolutionary. It was designed, at its core, to upset you in one way or another in an overall goal of working everyone up. On that note, let me state a couple things I have gathered from my time around both anti-Oreners and Oreners the past few weeks in reference to the aforementioned post and event it describes, which I am by no means afraid to speak on given my neutral position. The administration team is responding to this correctly. The post that preceded this one is one of the most contradictory, enthralling texts I have ever read, and it was designed to be so for insidious purposes. I want to say you must be wondering, but frankly, it's obvious to anyone who has any context what is going on here. Esterlen is attempting to start an uproar by both Oreners and non-Oreners to a degree that an official statement, decision, or action has to be made by the staff and administration which will then be used in an attempt to remove Tahmas and others not lining up with Orenian interests from leadership. To anyone who is not aware, Esterlen is the "shadow" leader of Oren, controlling through Pyro. I have been told this or overheard this by practically everyone of consequence I have spoken to in the last couple of weeks. That may sound silly or outrageous, but seeing as I've heard it from high ups in both Oren and non-Oren groups, sometimes off-handedly, I can only assume this is not only true, but it is practically common knowledge. Esterlen is attempting this because he likely has his own plots in order, and this directly affects them. Another outrageous claim, I know, but this person is attempting to start an uproar because someone's staff position is suspended. No one is banned, no one is losing their leadership position in Oren, and no one is even concretely losing their GM position, all that has happened is the leader of the largest nation on the server might just be losing his pex for a while. Esterlen, the damn reptile, was attempting to tout him as a figurehead in an anti-administration group and this is why he lost his pex, but that is in no way the reasoning stated in the decision regarding his removal. In fact, even if it were, it would be completely justified, as the administration are the leaders of the server, and rebelling against their decisions to the jagged degree pyro did in his post could be summed up as severe insubordination with an ulterior motive. This is not behavior that should be representative of the staff. What I really want to focus on is just how backwards Esterlen's post was, like, almost inhumanly so. In almost every point he made on negative actions taken by the staff, it sounded more to me like something he was doing in the post. What kept with me the entire time I was reading was how he spoke of a coup by the administrators, yet the tone of his entire text was that of someone trying to insight a coup. Most of the time he was simply taking completely reasonable statements, such as keeping the privacy of a reporter who reported using an anonymous service, and twisting them to make it sound like it was injustice. In that section, he pointed out the unfairness and bias of only going off of one side of the story, but completely left out the fact they said they had gone through logs extensively to back it up. He was twisting stories and ignoring details and focusing on emotional writing in an attempt to garner a similar response from the reader. In other words, he was attempting to completely manipulate you. Why would he do that? Because currently there are people who are making decisions which are not benefiting Oren, and he feels that needs to be stopped, at least that's all I can gather from his post. As I said, all that was taken was the emperor's pex, which you could say the largest nation needs a GM that is usually around and can handle things when people need, but then there's this... (Also apparently Pyro isn't removed, he's just suspended.) Almost all of the GM team are Oreners, and a few of those might be Oren aligned and I simply don't know it. The only ones I'm completely sure aren't are Lego_XBOX and Josh3738. Also, before it hits, sorry for corralling the dominion guys with Oren, but the dominion is a vassal of Oren and undoubtedly would have some bias to support her interests if for no other reason than their continued relations. The real kicker is that he said the staff is increasingly less representative of the players, when the staff and the two trials are mostly and completely from his nation, respectively; although when I put it like that, maybe he's not wrong? My point is that Oren has no need for pyro to even be a GM, and causing such a huge ruckus over this can only be because of a plan to benefit from Pyro's position in some way. The only point worth arguing about now is if the administration team has made a mistake, but it is obvious that they are not only within their bounds, but they have made a well thought out decision. On the decision to not release evidence, Esterlen himself said the person who gave the evidence had to be plotting against Oren, and he also said that OOC banishment is the only cure for OOC plotting. In other words, he literally confirmed that if the person was released, there would be consequences against that person. Thus, the decision to withhold the evidence that made it clear who had submitted it was correct. (It's worth mentioning one of the things said in his screen caps of quotes by josh said they were looking for evidence that wouldn't give away who submitted it.) Of the five things that Esterlen counted out, the only one I have not heard a claim of in TS or skype chats is the unprecedented toxicity, although in context that is just what the reporter called it as Josh said it in quotes. Everything else lines up with what I've heard from Oreners and non-Oreners alike; although, I've done all five of those things before, the difference is I'm not a GM. Not much else to be said, the accusations were completely unsurprising other than the toxicity one; personally I've never had a bad conversation with pyro, but I've also never given him a reason. All in all, the one who really seems to be conniving here is Esterlen. I'll admit, for my own sake, that I could be completely off base. Esterlen could have very well just been pissed his friend lost his position, but the sheer tone and calling out of the administration seemed to suggest a more malicious motive, in fact, get this: I went to him on skype and decided to ask him why he was doing this, trying to get him to fess up. At first he tried to ignore me, but I kept at it until we finally got in an argument. We argued for like an hour before finally he said, "I'm going to DDoS you until next fall and make sure you never play on this server again unless you do two things," I was struck by this, no one had ever threatened to DDoS me keep me off the server before so I asked him what he wanted, "First, I want you to never utter my @%!$@$& name again, and I want you to stay the hell away from Oren." I said alright, but he wasn't done, "That's just the first thing, I need one more thing from you..." "What?" "About tree fiddy." "Wha-" It was about this time that I realized Esterlen was an eight story tall crustacean from the paleozoic era. Damned loch ness monster got me again. ... And on the subject of Tahmas, he is one of the most successful administrators I've seen since I joined the server, and I've not heard a single, actual complaint about him aside from when things like this happen. I just spent 3 hours writing that. Going to show myself out now. 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Will (TauFirewarrior) 2466 Share Posted December 20, 2016 All this drama made me realize I'm not even on the GM List. Me right now Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ambduscias 1028 Share Posted December 20, 2016 2 minutes ago, Will (TauFirewarrior) said: All this drama made me realize I'm not even on the GM List. Me right now lay low and continue being irrelevant if you appreciate your sanity Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScreamingDingo 20568 Share Posted December 20, 2016 17 minutes ago, oblivionsbane said: I just spent 3 hours writing that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryno2 1285 Share Posted December 20, 2016 6 minutes ago, Will (TauFirewarrior) said: All this drama made me realize I'm not even on the GM List. who even are you Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WuHanXianShi14 0 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Unless there's some secret theoden/wormtongue **** going on behind closed doors I can tell you esterlen isn't the "shadow leader" of oren. He's in the leadership chats and is vocal with his input but sometimes people agree with him and sometimes people don't. No need to start tinfoiling. Btw dominion is not a vassal it's a sovereign nation nominally protectorate to the emperor alone, not the empire as a whole. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaw 964 Share Posted December 20, 2016 3 minutes ago, 吳憾戰士14 said: Btw dominion is not a vassal it's a sovereign nation nominally protectorate to the emperor alone, not the empire as a whole. is that what you tell yourself at night Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praetor 1550 Share Posted December 20, 2016 17 minutes ago, oblivionsbane said: Esterlen, the damn reptile Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmat 7460 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Learn the truth. You're exposed, Malythilian. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WuHanXianShi14 0 Share Posted December 20, 2016 1 minute ago, Chaw said: is that what you tell yourself at night Yep! It's always funny how many people try to convince us we're really oppressed and downtrodden vassals and we just don't realize it. Looks good on the anti-oren propaganda I guess, but RP is RP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblivionsbane 714 Author Share Posted December 20, 2016 10 minutes ago, 吳憾戰士14 said: Unless there's some secret theoden/wormtongue **** going on behind closed doors I can tell you esterlen isn't the "shadow leader" of oren. He's in the leadership chats and is vocal with his input but sometimes people agree with him and sometimes people don't. No need to start tinfoiling. Btw dominion is not a vassal it's a sovereign nation nominally protectorate to the emperor alone, not the empire as a whole. A couple people told me it was, I don't remember who, I'm too tired. I remember it was people that I thought knew better like zhulik or something. 12 minutes ago, Praetor said: Read on, friend, it's a wild ride. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malocchio 983 Share Posted December 20, 2016 It took you three hours to write this? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARCHITECUS 4788 Share Posted December 20, 2016 You invoked Godwin's Law in only the third sentence of your post. Good work. Don't need to read the rest of it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Boiendl 1454 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Esterlen isn't a reptile nor the shadow leader of Oren. Spooky stuff, but slightly off base. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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