CRP: Give-and-Take vs. Skill

[Unwillingly 11139]

For many of us, CRP is a controversial subject that we either enjoy, dislike, or outright refuse to partake in. With not many clear rules and guidelines for CRP set by staff, most of us have different interpretations of what should or shouldn't be, and often each individual will believe, THIS is how you CRP, or THAT'S how you CRP. Things such as, what defines your CRP ability? How should things be measured? Long and detailed emotes vs small and simple ones?   

We've all heard the PvP vs CRP debates in the past that are overused, toxic, and ultimately end up changing nothing. Luckily, this isn't what that is. This is a subject focusing purely on CRP methods that I haven't seen mentioned in the past. So what is this about, again?

Give and Take is essentially the idea that, you give hits in exchange for hits in CRP. You allow your character to get hit, and your partner will allow theirs to equally get hit as well. It's something players may follow as a personal rule in CRP to ensure the most equal fight possible for any situation, something done to give both parties a fair chance and opportunity.

On the other hand, there's raw Skill: The idea that you put your pure CRP skill and ability above the Give and Take rule. Players who will often believe in, "My attack should have hit because x, y, and z," over "I'll allow my character to get hit if you allow yours to get hit." Sometimes, players using their CRP knowledge to its fullest extent are called powergamers for simply making the correct decisions in their fight. 

These two aren't exactly common subjects that are compared in and of themselves, but rather subtle nuances players will prefer to follow in their CRP encounters. 

Between Give and Take vs Skill, which is better and why? 

 

[mmat 7461]

The 'skill' aspect can also be the respective skill of the characters in question, rather than just how good you are at typing and making fancy words. How old/experienced are the characters compared with one another? How focused on fighting compared to other activities? How do they do when fighting against an opponent with different types of weaponry? Etc.

 

Neither are more important than the other, but I view the OOC and RP skill aspects of RP combat as a foundation, and determine my givetake considerations based on that. If you're a centuries' old, battle-hardened, weapon expert of an Orc, for example, you shouldn't have to give a **** about give or take when fighting a newborn halfling. That's an extreme example, but you get my drift.

[Kholibrii 978]

I'd like to preface my message by saying I'm not an avid CRPer and instead tend to do it whenever it seems fun or I'm pushed into it, so my opinions might be different from someone who has been doing it for years.

 

I personally believe that CRP should be based of the Character's Skill. @iMattyz's comment went over what Character skill would be, and I agree with all of it. My main character doesn't have much combat experience or knowledge and shouldn't be able to get a ton of hits in on most battle hardened soldiers.

 

The way you describe "Give and Take" is not a method of CRP that should be on the server unless it's a fight where both sides are completely equal(which is like never). Another form of "give and take" is important though, making sure you and your opponent are doing the same amount of actions within an emote, just because your character is well versed in combat doesn't mean they should be able to pull off multiple major attacks in one emote, for example, just because you play a 300 ear old elf who's been a warrior for his whole life doesn't mean you can stab your opponent while also bashing their head into your shoulder and kneeing them in the crotch all in one emote.

[thesaintjaleel 791]

The 'Give and Take' system sounds like a handicap for either new or unimaginative role-players. For most characters it isn't that hard to imagine real-life versions of them and decipher what bonuses they'd have in a battle. There's literally pictures and example for most situations - we see the same or similar beings in most fantasy settings whether it be in books, media, or here. To ignore a characters innate skills or bonuses in turn for this childish system would literally break roleplay, I think it's definitely time to mature and accept that you win some and you lose some. If you wouldn't face the Rock in real life, your character should think before challenging someone who obviously has the upperhand in combat - and if they do decide, you should come to terms with your characters situation.

[Nectorist 7422]

i give my opponents the opportunity to take an L from my superior skills (i looked up on wikihow how to swordfight no ur character cannot physically beat mine)

[argonian 12836]

no see i stabbed you in the SOLAR PLEXUS, see? the SOLAR PLEXUS. i bet you had to look that up. how can you possibly not lose to my superior knowledge of human anatomy? 

 

yes i literally had this happen to me once. swung at a guy like 3 emotes b4, but he was arguing all the momentum in my arm for the last 20 mins should vanish because he emoted stabbing me in a somewhat fancy way 

 

sorta off topic but just wanted to expand on why "CRP skill" is dogshit and just people jerking themselves off to their own emotes

[Radzig 546]

Honestly, if done right, the 'Skill' based CRP is something that's done when two people with a good understanding of the CRP rules as well as an understand their characters are using the 'Give and Take' method. 
Simply using the latter described method of your character's skill opens up way too many opportunities for wannabe heroes and powergamers to bend the rules and flex their big brain martial arts emotes.
Give and Take offer a great basis and in an instance where the mood is right and both parties are experienced the 'Skill' can come naturally. 
Also Skill takes longer and I don't have time for that. 

 

Edited December 13, 2020 by Radzig

[TrendE 1324]

n this in itself is why pvp & mechanic balancing around characters is important / a great detriment if (when) not handled properly by staff - the great equaliser & makes things fair for all parties involved since you can treat your enemy like an enemy as opposed to having to pretend to be friendly just so u don't get mugged off for 2 hrs in crp

[Gustando 1455]

you made like 4 posts about crp how much more do u need..

[Sorcerio 4595]

What do you mean my character isn't the strongest, smartest, fastest, and handsomest person on LOTC?? Of COURSE I would win. 😌

[louislxix 3066]

skill doesn't work when everybody thinks they're the dog's bollocks

[monkeypoacher 6993]

 

3 hours ago, Unwillingly said:

On the other hand, there's raw Skill: The idea that you put your pure CRP skill and ability above the Give and Take rule. Players who will often believe in, "My attack should have hit because x, y, and z," over "I'll allow my character to get hit if you allow yours to get hit." Sometimes, players using their CRP knowledge to its fullest extent are called powergamers for simply making the correct decisions in their fight. 

 

This paragraph is a tell: Your character is fallible and not meant to make the "correct" decisions in a fight 100% of the time. Your "CRP knowledge" isn't supposed to map onto your character perfectly, especially when your character is under extreme duress. People who write that they're 'skilled' at CRP because they watch youtube videos about swords also tend to vastly overestimate their character's stamina, reflexes, and tolerance to stress.

Besides, this isn't an RPG with progression where you can meaningfully level your character's combat skills. To play a master swordsman all you have to do is say that your character was trained at some point. Back in Anthos during full RP default people kept imgur screenshot logs of their training roleplay to strengthen their case for why their character would win a swordfight. But even this was stupid. Making your character a master swordsman sidesteps the point of combat roleplay (there's a pun in there somewhere), which is to resolve a conflict in a narratively meaningful way. The only 'skill' at CRP that matters is the ability to entertain the other participants, and even this is a shaky proposition when one or more people in the CRP would rather be doing something else.

[Wyrvun 1262]

I only CRP on a friendly base with people I know and trust to make the best decisions because most players can't be trusted with making the best decisions about what they can and cannot do. Anything else straight to PVP if I have a say. Even if it's in my disadvantage because I don't want to sit there for 45 minutes getting salty cause someone is explaining to me about their character's training or some ****.

 

If anything the times I do CRP, chop it down to either a pre-determined winner, or my friend and I are communicating either in VC or just have a mutual understanding of what the other character is trying to do, which I suppose would fall under skill.

[Unwillingly 11139]

2 hours ago, Tyrone1 said:

you made like 4 posts about crp how much more do u need..

what

[Xx_BloodStalk_xX 2120]

i read three wikipages on swords and watched two swedish swordfighting videos and copied their moves in my crp so if you dont instantly die to what they said in the video i mean what im doing irp then im going to call a mod