The New World and You: A Teaser

[Trazier 115]

Essentially I want to create a system similar to Sets you find on Survival servers. Allowing players to pick between varied Sets that have heavy Pros and Cons. Ex/ 3 Diamonds that are worth something in the long run, compared to 500 minas and a stack of bread.

I don't get this, as LOTC is my first and only public multiplayer server. Could you elaborate a bit? Is this like some kind of token system or starting thing where it's like 'Welcome to the world, you can choose 1 of the following bags of things to take with you', or something like that? I've never played on survival servers so I don't know what these sets all entail.

Is it some kind of exchange where you turn in ## of X, and get # of X on the new server?

[nomnomnomness36 0]

sounds like it will be great, now all i need to do is get on to the server :D. its taken me ages.

[Sporadic 2844]

those who cry about a reset are those who loose most, that's what it looks like. Your just to lazy to start new.

Reads like:

those who cry about more cancer research are all dying of cancer, that's what it looks like. You're just too scared to die.

To deny this is to deny humanity. And calling rich people 'lazy' is also hardly an argument, for I could call poor people 'jealous'. Doesn't get us anywhere.

That being said, I'm of medium wealth, but this doesn't take away that I attack this reset with justified arguments, arguments which my in-game wealth do not strengthen or weaken.

[Robin Drake 731]

What Trazier says does make sense in a way. If only minas are carried over the people will be trying to liquidize their assets for the remainder of this worlds life span, not spending much minas and changing how their character would normally act. Though if a double chest is allowed or even a single chest then people can decide what is most valuable, put it in the chest and continue playing as normal, without feeling the need to sell off everything of importance.

I always looked at the new world as a sort of "new slate" for the people, and having the already rich and powerful people walk into this world and buy what they want is really not what I want. I understand that they have worked hard for what they have earned and to take it all away would not be "fair" but in the long run not having those with a starting wealth of royal proportions would be a benefit to the economy.

[Baisha 8]

What Trazier says does make sense in a way. If only minas are carried over the people will be trying to liquidize their assets for the remainder of this worlds life span, not spending much minas and changing how their character would normally act. Though if a double chest is allowed or even a single chest then people can decide what is most valuable, put it in the chest and continue playing as normal, without feeling the need to sell off everything of importance.

I always looked at the new world as a sort of "new slate" for the people, and having the already rich and powerful people walk into this world and buy what they want is really not what I want. I understand that they have worked hard for what they have earned and to take it all away would not be "fair" but in the long run not having those with a starting wealth of royal proportions would be a benefit to the economy.

I've already seen people trying to buy up diamonds in bulk and what not, what good does it do to have a bunch of ppl bringing over loads of diamonds? How many people (with wealth) are going to bring over wood planks/cobble/wool/etc? It either has to be all or nothing, any combination of the minas/items options would have negative ramifications for the economy, unless a new alternative is found, and Zombez has a solid idea.

What are people afraid of? You're here to develop and play your character. If you're a mega wealthy merchant, what is to stop you from doing it again? It is your characters profession, and should be viewed as an interesting challenge with many new rp opportunities, not as: "wow this is unfair that I can't sit back on my wealth anymore."

A semi-unrelated point, and this is all strictly my opinion, but I view people in this boat as a max lvl character in an MMO that has alot of money and everything they need, but fail to 'play' as much as they once did, instead just sitting back and using the game as a social tool, and raid every once in a while.

Furthermore, I believe the ideas listed in the link provided also need to be looked at: here

[TheLoopyCoopy 24]

((Wrong thread))

[Vinnyvedivici 45]

But if you brought over NO minas and NO inventory, whomever you put in charge of the cities, or the merchant district or residential district in the cities, could charge whatever they wanted for a merchant stall or a house. Even if they made it really affordable, you'd pretty much be setting them up on a pedestal of wealth and power right from the start. As someone who's had to work for what he got, i'd feel rather discontent with that, and if I was offered one of those positions, i'd feel bad accepting it, as in my eyes, it's entirely unfair to everybody else.

I feel like we are the russians clammoring for reform at the end of WWI. "let everyone start out equally" "get rid of the rich people, take away diamond VIP perks, it's a Brave New World out there!" I don't think I need to comment on the absolute unfairness of the soviet regime.

Everyone starting out equally does not mean truely mean what you think. Some people will be in power- the ruling elite- and the rest of us will be poor serfs. They will become insanely rich for nothing, whereas those who have money now have made it from their own labors- not by selling gm created houses in the new world.

In this senario it would be even harder to succeed than it is now because there is no middle class and it will be cutthroat to establish something. In the same maner, those who log in first will have a huge advantage because in the "tabula rossa" they will get a jump start on anyone who has to wait a few days and comes in naked and pennyless.

Finally, I don't mind starting again, but I do mind the fact that I paid real life money (which is allowing this 2.0 to even happen) and all of the benifits of that money are going to be wiped out. Ironically, the opinion of those wanting a full on reset seem to be those who havent supported the server financially-even though it is only possible with our generous donations.

[Baisha 8]

I feel like we are the russians clammoring for reform at the end of WWI. "let everyone start out equally" "get rid of the rich people, take away diamond VIP perks, it's a Brave New World out there!" I don't think I need to comment on the absolute unfairness of the soviet regime.

Everyone starting out equally does not mean truely mean what you think. Some people will be in power- the ruling elite- and the rest of us will be poor serfs. They will become insanely rich for nothing, whereas those who have money now have made it from their own labors- not by selling gm created houses in the new world.

In this senario it would be even harder to succeed than it is now because there is no middle class and it will be cutthroat to establish something. In the same maner, those who log in first will have a huge advantage because in the "tabula rossa" they will get a jump start on anyone who has to wait a few days and comes in naked and pennyless.

Finally, I don't mind starting again, but I do mind the fact that I paid real life money (which is allowing this 2.0 to even happen) and all of the benifits of that money are going to be wiped out. Ironically, the opinion of those wanting a full on reset seem to be those who havent supported the server financially-even though it is only possible with our generous donations.

Just because someone hasn't donated yet, doesn't mean their opinion is invalid, and time is equally as valuable as money. I, for one, believe that I have helped on a lot of things with the Orc nation, and I do plan on donating, just wanted to originally get some more time under my belt, seeing as it would be a bit unrealistic to donate, say $200, after playing for 10 days like I have seen some people do. And you talk of people losing their donor perks (I doubt they will lose their perks in the first place)? Let me ask you this, are you first and foremost a donor that cares about the server, or did you simply donate because you spend a lot of time here and wanted to buy the perks?

Got a bit off-track there, but the point is your generous donation IS helping them do what they want to do and HAS supported them.

[Robin Drake 731]

Finally, I don't mind starting again, but I do mind the fact that I paid real life money (which is allowing this 2.0 to even happen) and all of the benifits of that money are going to be wiped out. Ironically, the opinion of those wanting a full on reset seem to be those who havent supported the server financially-even though it is only possible with our generous donations.

I am would prefer to see a way to accommodate all players wishes into how and what to transfer to the new server. Though I do not mind if there is a full restart, I am planning on leaving everything behind anyway and I am a donator. Despite this saying steel I am actually a Gold donator and I am planning to donate to the server again near December, or perhaps earlier and I have no qualms about leaving behind everything. I thought my idea a page or so back sufficiently dealt with people keeping their items and most of their minas and supporting those who wish for a full restart in a way.

@Baisha I donated because I loved the server, I only donated $25 at first and then another $25 a month later. The only perk I have ever used is the chest locking, I can set up a shop if I want but i don't, I could make gates or bridges or an npc but I don't. I have no use for them with my character. I just hope that the new world is not VIP exclusive first as this would annoy the vast numbers of non VIPs. I think all should have a fair chance of getting to the new world, whenever it should be.

[MrZombez 35]

Alright, I had hoped it would explain itself, but let me elaborate.

Sets/Bags/Packages, whatever you want to call them, work in a very simple, one time way. Now I haven't had time to come up with a complete list of Sets, so bear with me.

Lets say you just spawned, you have nothing but the shirt on your back, and up pops a message. This message clearly states you have access to the Sets plugin, since you have yet to choose one. Let's say you have the choice between three things, here they are:

-3 Diamonds, relatively useless on their own, but after time could make you a wad of cash.

-5 Bread and 500 minas, immediate use, especially for travelling to the cities without starving.

-1000 minas, will help you right away, assuming you can find someone to buy from.

These choices are, hopefully, balanced enough to give you something useful at the start, but small enough to not ruin immediate gameplay/economy. You can choose one, and lose the ability to choose again after you select one. Afterwards you go on you merry way and head of where ever the road takes you.

Now obviously these examples are poorly designed, since everyone who starts after a few weeks of release will choose Diamonds and get more minas then what the Set gives you. My point is, if properly looked over, we can potentially give people what they need immediatly, while keeping a clean slate.

Also, please don't think I am being insensitive about losing hard earned items and minas, I would be concerned as well. However I stand from a relatively neutral perspective, I don't gain from people keeping or losing their things. I just know that if we let everyone takes a bunch of items and minas, then it will be no different then how the server is now. There will be blurred classes, and new players will join into a place where they have nothing and are potentially abused until they earn their keep(OOCly), and players who have played for a while are the equivalent of a God compared to others.

Also I noticed you brought up leaders, and while I can't go into detail, I have been working on concepts to solve the GM Leader problem, and help ween Players into leadership roles in the New World. I will hopefully work on this with the others, and release the full product to the Community for review soon. Please also note that we will NEVER let someone take advantage of the economy. While I am sure you meant to exaggerate, if anyone was to ask for 5000 minas for one diamond, especially in a Leadership role, they would be punished for it. At least in the first few weeks. That wouldn't be fair and we know that.

I hope I cleared some things up, but I know this battle will rage on. While I still want Tabula Rasa, it is up to both parties, Staff and Players, to come to a consensus. I only want to create a fair structure to solve both problems.

Regards,

MrZombez

[Garukumus 81]

My opinion:

What Should Transfer:

1. Minas

There is no argument for why Minas should not transfer other than the rich are lazy and such. It would make no sense for them to just disappear in an RP way. The only reason why we would get rid of the minas would be if we didn't bring number 2.

2. Items

We need to AT LEAST bring the inventory. For the sake of RP and all the hard work some of the people have put in. If we didnt bring items it would crush the RP. The only reason it works for new people on the server now is that there is an already established system that allows them to get economic gain. If we leveled everyone's items then we would effectively be creating anarchy for the new world.

3. Property Rights

Not just buildings in the city but outside plots. Simply put, if you own a region on this world you should effectively get a region of equal value on the new one.

4. Your Character's Personality and Respect

Just because we're going to a new world doesn't mean that everyone can be leveled to equality. If we did that it would be like everyone going out to the nearest gang and saying, "Hey you guys, the worlds ending and I want to be friends, lets go to a new place and start a society!" This is another reason why we cant just flatten everyone's minas and items. NO RP.

This is just my small worthless opinion though, and im not really any of these people. I have 64 minas left to my name and have one building, its not much but id like to keep it.

[MrZombez 35]

Sorry but I just have to, note this isn't directed at anyone in particular.

I truly hate the argument that RP will be ruined by lack of items. Clearly you were not here for Day 1 release, we had nothing, we had to find jobs and earn minas from scratch. It took me a month and a half to get 15,000 minas, and then I had to pay 10,000 for a home. I don't mean to whine or say you are acting entitled, but really, RP won't be ruined, it will just be a struggle for your characters survival. It will be an earned wealth that you have a week-month from release, instead of having a tonne of money immediately.

As well, saying that you can't RP without items and money proves you don't understand what RP is. Sure it is a portion, but having nothing means you need to work together, working together requires socializing, social activities in a RP server are RP.

Once again, sorry, but I felt strongly about this, and to be honest, it is the worst argument people have. It has also been the most consistent one.

[Vinnyvedivici 45]

Just because someone hasn't donated yet, doesn't mean their opinion is invalid, and time is equally as valuable as money. I, for one, believe that I have helped on a lot of things with the Orc nation, and I do plan on donating, just wanted to originally get some more time under my belt, seeing as it would be a bit unrealistic to donate, say $200, after playing for 10 days like I have seen some people do. And you talk of people losing their donor perks (I doubt they will lose their perks in the first place)? Let me ask you this, are you first and foremost a donor that cares about the server, or did you simply donate because you spend a lot of time here and wanted to buy the perks?

Got a bit off-track there, but the point is your generous donation IS helping them do what they want to do and HAS supported them.

I think you misunderstood what I am saying. I donated several times to the server, ultimatly ending up with a diamond vip set. I donated because I appriciated their rime and effort (and had co-ran a private server with my friend-which cost us $15 a month.)

You seem to get the idea that I have a severe case of entitlement and perhaps even that I disreguard non-vip's opinions. Neither of these are the case. I did donate the price of an xbox game originally, as I felt they deserved it and I have a source of income. However, I increased my donor to the diamond level specifically to gain a protected plot to build upon, and I have spent countless hours doing so, to great enjoyment. I have every right to complain that my countless hours and hours of building will be wiped out, and the almost uncountable amount of resources that I have gathered and used in building will be lost, but I haven't. My point is that there are some who would love nothing more than to throw those who have donated money under the bus, and trample over them in this brave new world. I was only asking that you take into consideration those who have been building and playing since the server started, those that have donated and helped keep the server running, and yes those that have just joined and are still punching leaves.

I realize that I will lose everything but it hasn't stopped me from building, from enjoying the world or from providing for others within our city.

mrzombiez has shown there is rational thought and much consideration, as well as a desire for balance in the new world. I sincerly hope that it can be achieved. I am merely providing feedback, and have full faith in you.

Simply put,I would expect there to be some sort of property transfer, even if it were an empty plot to be built on (which would probally be ideal honestly.) I also expect there to be a refunding of my 20,000 should minas be wiped, but perhaps only after several weeks into the new world as to not disrupt the economy(?). I also expect there to be a way to apply for governmental positions, should there be a new government set up.

[zuluman 79]

My 2cents:

Before anyone reads any further, I'm a diamond VIP so my thoughts are surely biased. I've tried to come about my idea in a manner that I think is fair.

After looking through all the posts one idea stood out to me. I thought about this mass exodus mainly as the discovery of the new world. The first settlers came over with basically nothing. They came to escape or to build a new life. People came over with unique skills and with predetermined roles in society. Other people who could afford it, came over with wealth or items that could easily be turned into wealth, but their passage over was much more costly.

This idea in terms of RP:

I'm not sure exactly how this would work, but the idea here is that if you want to journey over to the new world with just the shirt on your back, you can go free of charge. Depending on the lore behind it things could be adjusted from here. If we travel by boat through some previously unnavigable waters then the poor who venture over might start with a little money that they earned as 'wages' while sailing over.

From here, the wealthier would be allowed to purchase extra 'inventory slots' that they can bring over. This would display the limited space available on a ship, or if we go by portal perhaps the mages need more expensive material components in order to transfer someone over who is carrying minas or heavy items. There would be a price range of these packages from 0 minas to say 100,000.

In terms of fairness, the items you bring over would be capped at a certain wealth limit. For instance if buy one of the higher priced packages you are only about to bring a total of 20,000 minas worth of items or actual minas into the new world. This would reduce what people could bring into the new world but not completely destroy what people have worked for. I think it this also could be done in an RP way that satisfies most people.

I hope this made sense. It did in my head but got more confused as I tried to explain it.

[/fail]

[Pepernoot 51]

A big problem I have with wiping all items, is that all written books will be gone... I have almost two-hundred unique player written books in my library alone. I could care less about my minas, or my other items, but the thing that would ruin it for me is that all books would be gone. From old journals to guides, history books to fiction and poetry, everything would be deleted.