Void View - What do you think?

[sam33497 7356]

Voidal magic is in a nice state, you should all go roleplay instead of posting on discord and forums.

 

edit: gonna add some yap to rep farm

 

itt: 'i really hate how other people roleplay my magic'

'i really hate how people see my magic in roleplay'

'i really hate how archaic texts that have no bearing on roleplay ruin my roleplay'

'i really hate how people pursue a variety of philosophies through voidal magic'

'i really hate how strength exists as a character concept'

'i really hate seeing people i dont like on the forums get MA's'

'i really hate how roleplay isnt spoon fed to me by st and i have to develop my own stories'

'i really hate roleplaying and would rather post on discord and the forums'

 

NO ONE IS STOPPING U FROM DOING COOL ROLEPLAY, NO GREEN DEMON NOR ARCHAIC LORE CAN DO SO

 

also **** u random void haters it doesnt affect u at all u just hear grapevine yap but the invisible demons u think are minmaxing and powergaming arent actually and in reality theres just 1 or 2 problem players who will be blacklisted

[Laeonathan 5889]

 

12 hours ago, UnBaed said:

cool concepts but just about every void mage focuses on magic stacking and minmaxing, i sigh more and more with every magnum opus mart that is just a giant "i kill you and win" spell

 

tl:dr too many ooc brained motivations for taking up the magics

exactly that.

 

too many minmaxers who think theyre Lanre Cerusil.

 

I love to focus on the crafting and creating aspect of it. Hence Im currently working on an artifcery amendment to make that more fun.

[sam33497 7356]

11 minutes ago, Laeonathan said:

too many minmaxers who think theyre Lanre Cerusil.

 

invisible demons

[Pancho 4197]

4 hours ago, Minuvas said:

Can we clarify where this idea of the void being evil comes from? 

 

the lore of the void

[Cheese 8883]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Make artificery and transfiguration less useless. Those are two magics with so much potential and what I would say the only non-combative voidal MA/FA. However, because both are mostly useless even outside of combat (especially because of the what I think are ridiculous enchantment nukes), nobody wants them.

 

Also, rewrite illusion please. As someone who's known it for two years now, and as much as I love its freedom, the lore is really vague to the point where if my students ask me questions, sometimes I'm unable to answer. It needs better formatting and clarification.

 

That's my two cents, it's 3am so I cba to read through the very large and in-depth responses, but from what I've skimmed several others agree that voidal magic is too focused on combat and minmaxing, and the only way to do that besides nuking every single magic, is to improve the largely non-combative ones so they become more appealing.

[PrimnyaQuorum 4003]

8 minutes ago, Cheese said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Make artificery and transfiguration less useless. Those are two magics with so much potential and what I would say the only non-combative voidal MA/FA. However, because both are mostly useless even outside of combat (especially because of the what I think are ridiculous enchantment nukes), nobody wants them.

 

Also, rewrite illusion please. As someone who's known it for two years now, and as much as I love its freedom, the lore is really vague to the point where if my students ask me questions, sometimes I'm unable to answer. It needs better formatting and clarification.

 

That's my two cents, it's 3am so I cba to read through the very large and in-depth responses, but from what I've skimmed several others agree that voidal magic is too focused on combat and minmaxing, and the only way to do that besides nuking every single magic, is to improve the largely non-combative ones so they become more appealing

 

Life Evocation/Illusion really compete for more difficult to comprehend lore and are some of the oldest accepted Voidal Lore's, but rewriting them would probably involve taking away a vast majority of the freedoms they have. I don't think that's a terrible thing (Illusion following the idea of more non-combative Voidal MAs) but it certainly would be a giant shift.

 

Tfig and Artificery do need something to make them work the investment, or not incur such a investment. I think Artificery, as a Feat that only supplements Tfig, will only be as strong/weak in terms of flavor/capability (even non-combatively) as Tfig. 

 

I do think if a effort was made, the issue with both minmaxing Voidal Magics and the weakness/lack of non-combative stuff could be addressed. It's just that many void mages would be upset, because it removes their ability to minmax. I have my own ideas for how I'd approach everything, but its not a good idea if it stands in contrast to what other mages/ non-mages think. 

 

[Treshure 5817]

Magical beings have an agenda. They set out to accomplish a goal and use preternatural means to achieve it. This is why aengudaemon-styled magic groups like the Azdrazi have been in vogue for so long -- you feel like you're apart of a bigger world. I haven't seen a spirited wizard on an agenda since Blundermore in 2013. I feel like voidal mages let the structure of their magic define their character in a rather limiting way. The worst offenders of this are the voidboyz, who regressively pursue power down to its root source. Magic is magic. You are interacting with the realms of the divine, and merely producing a flame should be treated with the reverence it deserves. This doesn't seem to be enough for many voidal mages, and they will bicker over what needs to be balanced and what needs to be boosted while missing the forest for the trees. 

 

Give me more wizards. Give me more court mages. Give me some damn flavor around here. 

[ThatFunkyBunch 2818]

Current void is on the same path as ancient Shamanism. Scarified and spread across over magics

6 minutes ago, ThatFunkyBunch said:

Current void is on the same path as ancient Shamanism. Scarified and spread across over magics

I don't necessarily dislike voidal magic. I just think it's getting bloated with stuff. 

[_AzureLexi 766]

New player disclaimer, I've only been on the server a couple months, and my character has only personally been a voidal mage for about two weeks. So, take everything here with the understanding I haven't actually seen all too much, this is just from my own limited perspective.

 

I would love to see the void take a more thematic hold in roleplay. The void isn't necessarily evil, any more than a predator or disease is evil, but it is the antithesis of life and the material. A lot of lore and setpieces I've personally seen seem to be pretty vauge. "Oh cool this thing helps connecting to the void."

My thought of something that would be cool to see, is to give consequences to make voidal magic feel more like a responsibility, otherwise they lose themselves to entropy itself. This is already vaguely present in the feats (Veil watchers fit the archetype for voidal mages who carry that responsibility with them, while eminents for instance trade their own ability to care for others in exchange for power), but it's also only present in the feats. As it stands the only choice your character has to make between moderation and corruption is... not picking a voidal feat. There is no gradient between using energy from another world with the understanding it is a neutral but dangerous force to be handled with care, and completely succumbing to the madness and entropy of the void, beyond "Did you pick a feat?"

Something as simple as voidal mages getting headaches, nightmares, and other minor mental ailments the more they use their magic would make a huge difference Or maybe overuse of magic causing their appearance to become more sickly. Just random examples to try and focus my thoughts a bit better, not really meant to be particularly considered.

Also the consequences of voidal feats need to be portrayed more in roleplay for the effect to work. My character has been fairly close to a few voidstalkers for a time, and if not for one passing IC comment and having read voidstalker lore, I'd have no way of knowing voidstalkers passively caused decay in their very presence. Re-iterating my limited experience here, though, so I don't know how consistently the consequences are portrayed.

Edited September 1, 2024 by _AzureLexi

[Frostdrop1 1843]

I don't get to interact with void mages all that much, at least not when they're actually casting. As a result, my experience is limited but I've also never quite liked voidal magic.

I liked the enchantments, before they were nerfed into the ground which removed them from the circles I roleplay in for 9/10 scenarios. Even cool flavour disguise-based things using illusion magic are absolutely crippling, and only now am I realising how badly that gimped some of my roleplay options today. While I agree they needed to be nerfed, I think greater effort should have been made to make it proportional and balanced based on spell tier and the type of magic. Even today, I don't think enough considerations were made.

Irregardless of enchantments though, I take particular issue with the negative effects the void has on those that tap into it. While it makes sense when all pieced together, I've generally found it to just not be very productive for most roleplay outside of interpersonal conflict. It would be nice to have "good" mages but the lore in itself presents an issue for that idea since theoretically every mage is influenced to be a megalomaniac to one extent or another. 

Furthermore, it really, really doesn't help that when you combine the negative effects of the void and the tendency for mages to take over a combat scenario this is an absolute disaster recipe for OOC conflict, even if it can make perfect sense for a mage to just wipe the field to show off. Given I'm usually roleplaying in communities which focus on old fashioned weapon useage and combat teamwork, a single mage is a big problem with AOE effects and the general failure to be willing to provide support over being part of the offense. This of course leads to more isolation of magic, and then people don't know how to use magic, and then there are msiunderstandings and abuse of power-gameing, etc... it comes with a host of issues. 

Overall, I like magic existing. I just think having the main accessible magic being treated with a subtle tinge of villainy and focus on raw power was a bad idea from a story creation standpoint for the kind of server LOTC is. It almost feels to me like it should be a smaller side magic.

None of these are exactly problems I care enough about to harp on about though, either. They're small things, broadly speaking. 

[xDK 1205]

I played a Void Mage for 8 years (2012 - 2020)

Oh boy... I have been in a position where I have experienced the changes that I think have been affecting the community roleplaying voidal mages the most. From a rich, character driven system to one increasingly rigid and restrictive, I will try to highlight what I think is some of the most key changes, in both lore and mechanics that have shaped voidal magic over time.

 

One of the most infuriating aspects of playing a Void Mage since around 2017, was the constant shelving, unshelving, and rewrites of different voidal magics. This had me in what I like to call "character development whiplash," where the ever changing "correct" way to roleplay void magic, caused small continuous disruptions to character story arcs, either from impacting myself or those around me. In the case of a void mage, even the community was divided on what was possible/impossible, which caused confusion and inconsistency in mage roleplay (This is where a lot of the “powergaming void mage” memes are from). Without any stable foundation, it's tough to build a consistent narrative of a void mage character when the rules appeared to shift by the minute.

 

The introduction of the tier system was a big leap from the more organic development of powers in earlier times of voidal magic. A void mage's powers, prior to the tier system, could be related to how “infamous” they are and how much respect they have within the community. This created the dynamic where there would be people, who were perceived to be stronger by virtue of experience or reputation. The tier system reduced that smooth progression to just a simple, time-based metric. In 2-3 months, any evocationist could be Tier 5. It removed the feeling of having truly earned power and made the journey to mastery not as meaningful. This was the result of the system cheapening the complexity of voidal magic, rendering it mechanical instead of a storytelling experience (e.g min-maxing).

 

The last and most important change that made me stop playing a void mage was the introduction of pre-defined "spells" in the lore itself. It really fundamentally changed the creative freedom that defined voidal magic. Before this, players were allowed to interpret their magic in a certain way and make it very personalized to the personality of any character and any specializations they might have had. For example, my character had a very specific take on Hydromancy (she was an ice mage) and that let me have some really creative and personal sort of combat and roleplaying style, that served as a storytelling device about who my character was. Eventually, the spells made combat quite predictable and repetitive. A pokémon duel, rather than genuine story driven encounters.

 

In my opinion, this shift from a fluid, community driven system to one bound down by rigid mechanics and frequent rewritings has weakened the roleplay experience over time. While it may have been changes in service of balance and consistency, creative freedom and character driven narratives that made voidal magic compelling in the first place were lost in the process.

[Xarkly 17299]

I think the ability to stack so many variations of voidal magic at once is really what undermines any narrative identity for your character and just turns it into a tool.

 

It's gone past the line when you have void mages OOCly confident they can single handedly escape dozens of pursuers, which about sums up the improper mindset towards power stacking that seems to have proliferated through the culture. 

 

I think, with a view to building a magic routed in characters narrative identity and not combat prowess, there should be less room to slot stack. I think the issue would be a lot better if a character was committed to being a "fire mage" and not a teleporting fire mage with alchemy and fart magic. While I understand some magics are minor, I don't know how these magics are ever meant to hold narrative weight when they're just one of many tools in a saturated arsenal.

[PrimnyaQuorum 4003]

4 hours ago, Frostdrop1 said:

I don't get to interact with void mages all that much, at least not when they're actually casting. As a result, my experience is limited but I've also never quite liked voidal magic.

I liked the enchantments, before they were nerfed into the ground which removed them from the circles I roleplay in for 9/10 scenarios. Even cool flavour disguise-based things using illusion magic are absolutely crippling, and only now am I realising how badly that gimped some of my roleplay options today. While I agree they needed to be nerfed, I think greater effort should have been made to make it proportional and balanced based on spell tier and the type of magic. Even today, I don't think enough considerations were made.

Irregardless of enchantments though, I take particular issue with the negative effects the void has on those that tap into it. While it makes sense when all pieced together, I've generally found it to just not be very productive for most roleplay outside of interpersonal conflict. It would be nice to have "good" mages but the lore in itself presents an issue for that idea since theoretically every mage is influenced to be a megalomaniac to one extent or another. 

Furthermore, it really, really doesn't help that when you combine the negative effects of the void and the tendency for mages to take over a combat scenario this is an absolute disaster recipe for OOC conflict, even if it can make perfect sense for a mage to just wipe the field to show off. Given I'm usually roleplaying in communities which focus on old fashioned weapon useage and combat teamwork, a single mage is a big problem with AOE effects and the general failure to be willing to provide support over being part of the offense. This of course leads to more isolation of magic, and then people don't know how to use magic, and then there are msiunderstandings and abuse of power-gameing, etc... it comes with a host of issues. 

Overall, I like magic existing. I just think having the main accessible magic being treated with a subtle tinge of villainy and focus on raw power was a bad idea from a story creation standpoint for the kind of server LOTC is. It almost feels to me like it should be a smaller side magic.

None of these are exactly problems I care enough about to harp on about though, either. They're small things, broadly speaking. 

 

I personally think the Enchantment nerf was needed, but after plenty of time experiencing it, it's effectively gutted the use of enchants by anyone - a Mage can already do what a enchantment provides, but a non-mage has to incur a giant penalty in the form of Enchanter's Sickness as it currently stands - even for non-combative enchantments.

 

How would you approach enchantments, given that the nerf was needed but most people agree its current state is too overbearing as a non-mage who used them?

 

3 hours ago, xDK said:

I played a Void Mage for 8 years (2012 - 2020)

Oh boy... I have been in a position where I have experienced the changes that I think have been affecting the community roleplaying voidal mages the most. From a rich, character driven system to one increasingly rigid and restrictive, I will try to highlight what I think is some of the most key changes, in both lore and mechanics that have shaped voidal magic over time.

 

One of the most infuriating aspects of playing a Void Mage since around 2017, was the constant shelving, unshelving, and rewrites of different voidal magics. This had me in what I like to call "character development whiplash," where the ever changing "correct" way to roleplay void magic, caused small continuous disruptions to character story arcs, either from impacting myself or those around me. In the case of a void mage, even the community was divided on what was possible/impossible, which caused confusion and inconsistency in mage roleplay (This is where a lot of the “powergaming void mage” memes are from). Without any stable foundation, it's tough to build a consistent narrative of a void mage character when the rules appeared to shift by the minute.

 

The introduction of the tier system was a big leap from the more organic development of powers in earlier times of voidal magic. A void mage's powers, prior to the tier system, could be related to how “infamous” they are and how much respect they have within the community. This created the dynamic where there would be people, who were perceived to be stronger by virtue of experience or reputation. The tier system reduced that smooth progression to just a simple, time-based metric. In 2-3 months, any evocationist could be Tier 5. It removed the feeling of having truly earned power and made the journey to mastery not as meaningful. This was the result of the system cheapening the complexity of voidal magic, rendering it mechanical instead of a storytelling experience (e.g min-maxing).

 

The last and most important change that made me stop playing a void mage was the introduction of pre-defined "spells" in the lore itself. It really fundamentally changed the creative freedom that defined voidal magic. Before this, players were allowed to interpret their magic in a certain way and make it very personalized to the personality of any character and any specializations they might have had. For example, my character had a very specific take on Hydromancy (she was an ice mage) and that let me have some really creative and personal sort of combat and roleplaying style, that served as a storytelling device about who my character was. Eventually, the spells made combat quite predictable and repetitive. A pokémon duel, rather than genuine story driven encounters.

 

In my opinion, this shift from a fluid, community driven system to one bound down by rigid mechanics and frequent rewritings has weakened the roleplay experience over time. While it may have been changes in service of balance and consistency, creative freedom and character driven narratives that made voidal magic compelling in the first place were lost in the process.

 

Definitely not a point of view I've considered or heard of before - While I think the character development whiplash, as you refer to it, isn't a current problem given Voidal Magic hasn't really changed since 2020, the point about the Tier system is definitely a new point to consider for me. 

 

On the one hand, as far as I know - every magic relies on the Tier System as its fundamentally written into the rules regarding TAs & Progression. On the other, there have been a few suggestions about offering mages the ability to invest another slot into a particular MA, therefore giving players a choice between being a jack of all trades with many magics, or a "master" within one/a few. Do you think such a concept would help bring back the idea of true mastery over a magic, and not simply 4 months of progression?

 

3 hours ago, Xarkly said:

I think the ability to stack so many variations of voidal magic at once is really what undermines any narrative identity for your character and just turns it into a tool.

 

It's gone past the line when you have void mages OOCly confident they can single handedly escape dozens of pursuers, which about sums up the improper mindset towards power stacking that seems to have proliferated through the culture. 

 

I think, with a view to building a magic routed in characters narrative identity and not combat prowess, there should be less room to slot stack. I think the issue would be a lot better if a character was committed to being a "fire mage" and not a teleporting fire mage with alchemy and fart magic. While I understand some magics are minor, I don't know how these magics are ever meant to hold narrative weight when they're just one of many tools in a saturated arsenal.

 

This does seem like a specific approach to the idea of minmaxing and where it stems from in particular, and I agree to some extent

 

With current Voidal Lore, Translocation is almost necessary if you want any form of survivability as a normal Void Mage. It has become a problem where if a mage isn't strictly in the backline, the only way they can really survive is by handing Translocation - not that it has no utility beyond Brisk Step and Minor Teleportation, but rarely have I seen the effort made to lean into the rest of Translocation. 

 

I think what make voidal magic unique is that it's a arsenal at the hands of mages - no other magic organically offers that versatility, unless you leave that magic and start stacking others. The problem, as many others have pointed out, is that there's no real consequence to taking the most CRP-optimal build, and following a ideal for a character - mental effects are non-existent in base Voidal Magic, and don't really force a character down a path. It feels almost a tad extreme to limit someone to only one Voidal MA, but I think the overarching idea - that stacking combatively optimal voidal magics should be not as easy/possible - is a good idea. I believe if there is no route to make the most "optimal" voidal mage for CRP,  people will be more inclined to have a mage with magics that reflect their character.

[sam33497 7356]

36 minutes ago, PrimnyaQuorum said:

I believe if there is no route to make the most "optimal" voidal mage for CRP

there is no such route, no one is smart enough to minmax void

[Laeonathan 5889]

22 hours ago, Cheese said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Make artificery and transfiguration less useless. Those are two magics with so much potential and what I would say the only non-combative voidal MA/FA. However, because both are mostly useless even outside of combat (especially because of the what I think are ridiculous enchantment nukes), nobody wants them.

What gives you the impression that transfig and artificery are useless?

 

I am asking that as someone who has had both for 2 years now and greatly enjoyed it.