[Your View] Feat Slots

[Venomous_Pup 2978]

I took a look at the currently accepted feats in the big doc, and I don't know if there is much point in actually adding in the idea of feat slots. One of the reasons feats have been handled the way they have is for minor magic or additions to a character that needs to be tracked but doesn't warrant to be included in a 'slot' system, they are more or less meant to be more flavourful additions to a character rather than anything that gives a direct power boost.
 

Taking a quick look, there are 19 feats in total. Six of them are the Voidal Feats and five of them require 3 slots in Void Magic, with four of them being mutually exclusive. You have the four Alchemy feats, Alchemy itself, Animii, Tawkin & Smoggers. Three feats that 'alter' the character, those being Corcitura and Sycophants, then minorly (compared) Feat level Seer. Two magic exclusive feats for Shamanism and Druidism, and something that falls under this is, but does not require magic, Heralds of Azdromoth that can also be upgraded into an MA variant. One cursed feat from Vivifaction. You have two construct creation feats with Golemancy and Sorvian. And finally Arcane Displacement. Voidal Feats themselves take up 31.58% of the feat section and somewhat skew the feats to feel more bloated than they are and already have stacking dealt with by making the ones that do give power increases mutually exclusive to each other.

When it comes to Alchemy it is hard to limit in any meaningful way that can keep it fun IMO. If a number limit is employed is Smoggers worth including? Animii and Tawkin basically do the same thing but one is robot clockwork flavour and the other is unnatural flesh smithing via chemicals. I can think of ways to make Alchemy have more of an investment but that would require plugin work which is usually not considered an option, I feel like a lot of people can't help but resort to that because there is only so much you can meaningfully do to limit people using it with how the server is basically just chat box RP. With Alchemy we already have only 3 potions a day, you have to get your symbols from nodes or other items that are considered valid for symbols, and you have to be taught some recipes before you can use them, Infernal and Black Alchemy are unique due to the fact to make some of the crafts in them, you need to get resources specifically from Necros or Infernal beings because they are the only ones that can get them. If more Further Alchemy Feats are released I think a limit specifically regarding Further Alchemy Feats would be an option. Still, with Animii and Tawkin alone I think it is pointless. 

For the rest of the feats I don't see any reason to impose a limit upon them except for the sake of adding an arbitrary limit because feat stackers tm got their hands on it. While I understand the fear is that these feats just get degraded to nothing more than a 'power boost' for the sake of empowering a character, my solution for years to deal with them is I just don't RP with them. If the pinnacle of 'interesting characters' to them is how much they can stuff their persona with magic, feats, items, and whatever else, their roleplay usually revolves around being entirely self-serving without offering anything fun to other players (more often than not, completely ignoring them because they can't pry any further 'use' from them), and a trend I've seen with similar players is they don't change in any meaningful way, as an example, having a character with Tawkin that just treats it like an everyday thing is snooze, you literally can unnaturally create life, perhaps akin to the Creator themselves if your persona believes in certain beliefs, you can mould your future vessels to cheat death and handle the fragile materials that make it, it isn't meant to be treated as a modern miracle of medical science, but a form of perverison of what is natural.  

The main problem I feel most people have is how min maxers use certain parts of lore as item printers or just boost the power of their persona for the sake of it, and I hate dictating the server around them in ways that ultimately make no sense and strangle what can be done creatively with pseudo videogame systems that do not fit in well with the type of server LotC tries to be. Using Alchemy as an example, in its simplest form is fantasy chemistry, I don't think you can tie any interesting downsides to it because there isn't anything inherent with the concept that makes sense to give a disadvantage. I don't know what the thoughts of enforcing labs to have ST signage or other tracking that requires ST, but assuming it isn't favoured, all you can do is what is limited already. Then there comes an issue where if we do add a Feat Limit, does it have the desired effect? Or is it just going to make people who legitimately want to min-max the server decentralize magics and feats into different personas. Most min-maxers tend to work in a group, so two of them can make a 'crafting persona' loaded up with magics and feats of craftwork, and offload enchanted and alchemical goods to each other's 'combative persona' to try and loophole around the limits anyway.    

Anyway, yap yap yap, just don't interact with minmaxers until they can RP properly or w/e. 

Edited January 15, 2025 by Venomous_Pup
Part of the post was deleted still..

[Jihnyny 5233]

Perfectly balanced...

Feat Slots on one hand sound good, but on the other they don’t.
Either do the stuff where feats are placed under umbrella figures or whatever everyone else is saying and ill agree. But just basic feat slots, no

[Cheese 8883]

9 hours ago, Frostdrop1 said:

You cannot armstrong people into playing fair.

THIS.

 

So many nerfs and buffs to feats/magics are to make them more "fair", which I can understand to an extent. No one should be able to one shot anybody because it's not an enjoyable roleplay experience. However, some people on this server really have a hard time when they realize they're not the strongest in the room. Just like in real life, there are people who are stronger, smarter, or otherwise more powerful or capable than others. As cynical as this may sound, there are the strong and the weak, and on lotc it doesn't make sense for everyone to be powerful, or nobody is powerful at all.

 

There are plenty of people who feat stack and abuse it or flash it everywhere, and those people should be dealt with separately from the rest of the player base who try to use their own knowledge and feats to further the roleplay of others. The guy who has every feat ever and abuses it is just as bad guy as the "*dodges" powergamer with nothing but an impossibly strong sword.

 

Deal with powergamers as you deal with powergamers, not as an entire feat-holding playerbase.

[Gemini 1737]

It would be so much better for roleplay if you could only master a magic or two. So much more diversity and you wouldn’t have people with 5 MA’s and all the possible FAs. 
(Ignore my all my MA’s and 16 FAs please)

[Samson Option 9652]

58 minutes ago, Cheese said:

THIS.

 

So many nerfs and buffs to feats/magics are to make them more "fair", which I can understand to an extent. No one should be able to one shot anybody because it's not an enjoyable roleplay experience. However, some people on this server really have a hard time when they realize they're not the strongest in the room. Just like in real life, there are people who are stronger, smarter, or otherwise more powerful or capable than others. As cynical as this may sound, there are the strong and the weak, and on lotc it doesn't make sense for everyone to be powerful, or nobody is powerful at all.

 

There are plenty of people who feat stack and abuse it or flash it everywhere, and those people should be dealt with separately from the rest of the player base who try to use their own knowledge and feats to further the roleplay of others. The guy who has every feat ever and abuses it is just as bad guy as the "*dodges" powergamer with nothing but an impossibly strong sword.

 

Deal with powergamers as you deal with powergamers, not as an entire feat-holding playerbase.

 

Print & plaster this next to your computer screens, you captured my thoughts exactly.

 

This is why I'm personally in favor of using peer pressure (name, shame, & clown people until they realize LotC ain't the place to compensate for real life mental issues, inadequacies, etc) because you cannot create the "perfect set of rules" to restrict it otherwise.

[JustMeMorgan 2066]

the only feet slots I need are my shoes bro stop trying to add more

[sam33497 7356]

Feat slots are based sorry infinite customization might be good for personal rp maybe but as far as the whole server goes forcing people into specializations makes everything more rp friendly as one character cannot do everything, people must interact with a larger range of characters to experience all lore. This helps with lore feeling common and such. Also specialized characters are particularly based but that is a slighty separate discussion. Even if the limit is arbitrary (magic slots are) it can still be good, everyone slowly specializing in every art available and propagating everything is lowkey the death of the world

 

since people are disagreeing though here's a suggestion that might be more tenable: limit further alchemy TAs to one only

[MysticalWeasel 911]

I think the issue comes down to the ease it takes to get some of these feats and the ability to make them wide spread. As Sam said, limiting the amount someone can TA, or even adding more time to even get a TA will greatly help. I'd further recommend in capping the amount of feat TA's one person can hold. I've seen someone have almost every branch of alchemy TA, tawkin, and several others. 

It is a little too late to put a cap, as the work load would be a nightmare for the ST team, and the player base. Nor does the issue of 'One can't master all these things in a life time'. What about elves, who live for centuries, same with orcs and dwarves. And other special CAs like a lich or Azdrazi who have theoretical infinite time on their hands. 

What should be done, is as before mentioned, stop the amount the of students per TA and increase the time before one can make a TA. Alchemy is by far the most spread feat, and little can be done now without a full wipe of alchemy. And it also seems to be a power creep issue, and just over the years the feats have slowly been made more and more powerful and added onto to. As well the general population that has access to these feats. 

[wowj 9747]

Reminder that this poll was not or is ST-Sponsored, I just remembered a conversation that was had around this topic awhile ago and wanted to hear the broader servers thoughts on this subject.

Thank you all for your comments, ideas and thoughts on this subject!

[Cheeseycereal 829]

On 1/14/2025 at 9:01 PM, megavoltar said:

Two feat slots, one for each foot, as god intended when he made us all.  

what if you have an extra toe