[✗] [Amendment] Lobotomize Alchemist-Wizards

[Helmet 1454]

Additions appear like this

Removed text looks like this

 

Original Post:

 

Old:

Spoiler

Tier Progression

Alchemy is staggered into three tiers, rather than the usual five seen in most magic. These determine an Alchemist’s level of experience, dictating what sorts of alchemical processes they can access and to what extent.

 

Note: Below the word ‘measure’ when used in this context refers to what would equal that which RPly equates an MC item representing a product of alchemy in a character’s possession (usually a bottle of something). 

 

New (Option 1 - Void Magics in particular):

 

Spoiler

Tier Progression

Alchemy is staggered into three tiers, rather than the usual five seen in most magic. These determine an Alchemist’s level of experience, dictating what sorts of alchemical processes they can access and to what extent how many at a time. The number of potions an Alchemist can make each OOC day is equal to the number of tier they, however knowing enough magics that prioritize chaos/sensation within the mind in order to cast rather than the logical rhyme & reason of Alchemy will make applying what these magic-wielders learn in Alchemy harder to do- limiting the number of potions made each day.

 

-Knowing 2 or more Voidal Magics (Not Slots) will reduce the total number of potions an Alchemist can make regardless of their Tier by 1.

-Knowing 4 or more Voidal Magics (Not Slots) will reduce the total number of potions an Alchemist can make regardless of their Tier by 2.

 

Note: Below the word ‘measure’ when used in this context refers to what would equal that which RPly equates an MC item representing a product of alchemy in a character’s possession (usually a bottle of something). 

 

Newer (Option 2 - Yes. ):

 

Spoiler

Tier Progression

Alchemy is staggered into three tiers, rather than the usual five seen in most magic. These determine an Alchemist’s level of experience, dictating what sorts of alchemical processes they can access and to what extent how many at a time. The number of potions an Alchemist can make each OOC day is equal to the number of tier they, however knowing enough magics that prioritize chaos/sensation within the mind in order to cast rather than the logical rhyme & reason of Alchemy will make applying what these magic-wielders learn in Alchemy harder to do- limiting the number of potions made each day.

 

-Knowing 2 or more Magics (Not Slots) will reduce the total number of potions an Alchemist can make regardless of their Tier by 1.

-Knowing 4 or more Magics (Not Slots) will reduce the total number of potions an Alchemist can make regardless of their Tier by 2.

-Housemagery, Bardmancy, & Seer do not contribute to the number of Magics.

 

Note: Below the word ‘measure’ when used in this context refers to what would equal that which RPly equates an MC item representing a product of alchemy in a character’s possession (usually a bottle of something). 

 

Reasoning:

1, it incentivizes some groups of people to actually have dedicated folk to be Alchemist-centered characters rather than just picking up the feat & half-assing it- hopefully leading to more rp interactions between different characters.

2, to those of you who may complain & are affected by this. How does the number of blasting potions/automatons/bogodan's clay you can make each day actually affect your Alchemy RP? There are 2 other entire sections to Alchemy (extractions, signs/symbols) that actually have the meat & potatoes of Alchemy lore behind them.

 

If any other magics should be included, lmk.

Edited June 11, 2025 by Helmet
I did what I had to do.

[Frisket 4538]

heya hopefully my feedback makes sense 

38 minutes ago, Helmet said:

1, it incentivizes some groups of people to actually have dedicated folk to be Alchemist-centered characters rather than just picking up the feat & half-assing it- hopefully leading to more rp interactions between different characters.

I agree with this, yet I do believe you are generalizing the groups who just make alchemy for the items and utility (which in reality that’s what they’re used for) rather than those that do witch/wizard rp which involve alchemy as a way to make niche potions or even just make their little collection. People already have dedicated alchemist characters and some have dedicated mage characters. I don’t think trying to separate and or attempt to punish one group for their nature that doesn’t actively effect alchemy works. I suggest reading up on voidal lore too! 
 

42 minutes ago, Helmet said:

thematically makes sense. To use Voidal Magic you need to focus on the chaotic systems of the Immaterial/the Void & Veil where every process is basically subjective during casting, whereas with Alchemy you are limited to the orderly laws and rules of the Material Plane. Trying to combo both within the same brain, while possible, only makes sense that you won't be able to benefit from either much without hurting the other- but doesn't make them incompatible with one another.

it’s why you don’t see mages double casting magic and potions. Voidal mages don’t exert mana like darkstalkers do, and as such don’t effect alchemy unless they are actively casting magic. Once more you’re correct, but the only thing you are incorrect on is assuming that because you are a void mage, and the nature of the void staggers alchemy abilities = mages can’t or would have trouble using or doing alchemy. Mages can use it, they just can’t really be connected while firing off a potion or making one.

 

46 minutes ago, Helmet said:

to those of you who may complain & are affected by this. How does the number of blasting potions/automatons/bogodan's clay you can make each day actually affect your Alchemy RP? There are 2 other entire sections to Alchemy (extractions, signs/symbols) that actually have the meat & potatoes of Alchemy lore behind them.

for the tawkin lore, if people are following it right, it depends, there’s a CD of staggering to make clones, and automatons have the longest creation cool down. It does affect us?

 

this feels like a jab and a sly attempt to Attack mage/alchemist players for doing something by the redlines that you don’t see them do constantly or probably heard in a VC “these slop players don’t roleplay it right (my roleplay is the right way grrr)”

[Benleft 2580]

I don’t think it is fun/uplifting for alchemy (which is the nigh invisible everyman’s tool) to punish voidal mages without an airtight explanation. 
 

If you want an “ALCHEMIST class” like “VOIDAL MAGE,” “DRUID,” “TEMPLAR,” and “NECROMANCER” “classes”, you could explore magic slots. 

[wowj 9747]

Alchemy should cost magic slots with how it can replicate magics and outright counter them

[PrimnyaQuorum 4001]

Lol alchemy doesn’t work with all magics. Be a real balancer and make this apply to all magics. 
 

(you’ll never see it human templars would crash out)

[Morigung-oog 5697]

On 6/10/2025 at 4:13 PM, Helmet said:

Additions appear like this

Removed text looks like this

 

Original Post:

 

Old:

  Reveal hidden contents

Tier Progression

Alchemy is staggered into three tiers, rather than the usual five seen in most magic. These determine an Alchemist’s level of experience, dictating what sorts of alchemical processes they can access and to what extent.

 

Note: Below the word ‘measure’ when used in this context refers to what would equal that which RPly equates an MC item representing a product of alchemy in a character’s possession (usually a bottle of something). 

 

New:

 

  Hide contents

Tier Progression

Alchemy is staggered into three tiers, rather than the usual five seen in most magic. These determine an Alchemist’s level of experience, dictating what sorts of alchemical processes they can access and to what extent how many. The number of potions an Alchemist can make each OOC day is equal to the number of tier they, however knowing enough magics that prioritize chaos/sensation within the mind in order to cast rather than the logical rhyme & reason of Alchemy will make applying what these magic-wielders learn in Alchemy harder to do- limiting the number of potions made each day.

 

-Knowing 2 or more Voidal Magics (Not Slots) will reduce the total number of potions an Alchemist can make regardless of their Tier by 1.

-Knowing 4 or more Voidal Magics (Not Slots) will reduce the total number of potions an Alchemist can make regardless of their Tier by 2.

 

Note: Below the word ‘measure’ when used in this context refers to what would equal that which RPly equates an MC item representing a product of alchemy in a character’s possession (usually a bottle of something). 

 

Reasoning:

1, it incentivizes some groups of people to actually have dedicated folk to be Alchemist-centered characters rather than just picking up the feat & half-assing it- hopefully leading to more rp interactions between different characters.

2, thematically makes sense. To use Voidal Magic you need to focus on the chaotic systems of the Immaterial/the Void & Veil where every process is basically subjective during casting, whereas with Alchemy you are limited to the orderly laws and rules of the Material Plane. Trying to combo both within the same brain, while possible, only makes sense that you won't be able to benefit from either much without hurting the other- but doesn't make them incompatible with one another.

3, to those of you who may complain & are affected by this. How does the number of blasting potions/automatons/bogodan's clay you can make each day actually affect your Alchemy RP? There are 2 other entire sections to Alchemy (extractions, signs/symbols) that actually have the meat & potatoes of Alchemy lore behind them.

 

If any other magics should be included, lmk.

 

brb while i proceed to stack naz, mystic or templar kani to completely bypass these redlines but be even more of a problem lololol

[sam33497 7356]

in principle I think mages shouldn't rly be alchemists but this is kind of just a nothing burger ooc paperwork change

[Rig 17580]

2 hours ago, wowj said:

Alchemy should cost magic slots with how it can replicate magics and outright counter them

 

This is my opinion. I think some forms of alchemy should be staples that everybody can use, but the more extreme forms should qualify as subtypes which take up slots. Do with that what you will!

[Helmet 1454]

6 hours ago, PrimnyaQuorum said:

Lol alchemy doesn’t work with all magics. Be a real balancer and make this apply to all magics. 
 

(you’ll never see it human templars would crash out)

 

Lotta other great points in this chat have been made,

but you know what? ur right.

I'm going to throw on a second 'new' section in a bit :)

[Luxury 1082]

The reasoning provided for the changes sets precedents which don't exist in Voidal lore. A mage that knows five magics does not have more 'mage essence' in them than a mage that knows one magic.

 

Other than that, its foundational to void magic that they study and understand the natural world in order to replicate its elements. The Void is part of the equation, not the entire thing.

 

---

 

And for my opinion on the matter, so what if the witch stirring the boiling cauldron wants to light it's fire with fire evocation and use telekinesis to claim her jar of eye of newt off of the highest shelf in her lab? I feel this urge to monopolize the Alchemist aesthetic is because a certain prominent alchemy group adopted an anti-void position irp.

[PrimnyaQuorum 4001]

14 minutes ago, Luxury said:

The reasoning provided for the changes sets precedents which don't exist in Voidal lore. A mage that knows five magics does not have more 'mage essence' in them than a mage that knows one magic.

 

Other than that, its foundational to void magic that they study and understand the natural world in order to replicate its elements. The Void is part of the equation, not the entire thing.

 

---

 

And for my opinion on the matter, so what if the witch stirring the boiling cauldron wants to light it's fire with fire evocation and use telekinesis to claim her jar of eye of newt off of the highest shelf in her lab? I feel this urge to monopolize the Alchemist aesthetic is because a certain prominent alchemy group adopted an anti-void position irp.

^^^^^

 

It's very funny how hard people try to say "but void cant work w/ alchemy!!!" and use random justifications. Sure, you're right, alchemy doesnt work with THE void; a mage is not THE void. they are not filled with voidal essence nor 24/7 connected to it, not even voidstalkers. double down and admit u dont like void or just make alchemy incompatible with magic. idc if michaeldaniel is cured theres no way in hell he's "natural" lol

[monkeypoacher 8055]

preventing mages from learning alchemy won't "incentivize people to play dedicated alchemist characters" the only thing that will do that is if you start playing an alchemist character and create roleplay for people to join in on. why not just make a dedicated alchemist guy and write some lore or brew a potion or something

[Venomous_Pup 2978]

I feel like this nerf isn't well thought out for the long, if the point is to encourage having alchemy-focused character because it reduces the amount of potions that a single person can craft, if I were a max Mage can teach it to two other max Void Mages/'Wizards' and guide them through the process (Tell them what to do in Roleplay everytime) to overcome the reduced limit, would only encourage the FA to be spread more to produce more potions and issues with 'half-assing', rather than seeking out/teaching a designated Alchemist. Ideally, I feel like the better option is something that promotes Roleplay beyond *crafts potion, and there are plenty of other people who use the feat beyond that already. I'm not sure if any of it or much of it has to be codified truthfully, given that the Ak'vei guild/Jun Lei in recent memory was built around alchemy and generated plenty of activity in the alchemy sphere of things. Alchemy, like all other FAs, MAs and lore pieces, is only important as people and communities make them out to be for their roleplay, and if LotC is meant to be something of a sandbox, I feel this change is counterintuitive to it, if people treat it like Skyrim Alchemy or delve deep into the intrinsic of Alchemy, it will attract the players that find those aspects more enjoyable. 

[_Elrith_ 4525]

On 6/10/2025 at 12:45 PM, wowj said:

Alchemy should cost magic slots with how it can replicate magics and outright counter them

I support this action.

[Islamadon 9158]

This lore has been denied.

This is not really an issue and this would only serve to complicate Alchemy Reqs (not going to pull up MAs). Further, if a Voidmage is not connected to the void while making Alchemy, why wouldn't they be able to produce potions? The 3 potion limit is intended to tie into the ST limit for ST signs a day; all you're doing when making 3 potions is using 3x the Herbs.