Creation Or Evolution? Vote!

[JtPv 140]

JtPv. God cannot be combated by Science, because the existence of a God is not testable through science. In your earlier post, you stated the Universe could not create itself. 

 

Where did God come from?

As I said before, God has always been and will always be. He is not human, or have a shape or form. He just is. We aren't meant to understand it. He was there BEFORE the universe.

 

 

Doesn't that make the world 7 thousand years old, according to the bible?

...When it was first created. There are accounts of people living more than a thousand years in the Bible, and during this early, fresh, period, much time could have gone by. After the flood (which is what we believe caused fossils) the Earth was not the same, and the habitats were different. That's how dinosaurs supposedly died out according to our speculations. Lives would have been shorter because it was not the same perfect world. Dinosaurs just didn't adapt and they died out. In a sense, it is natural selection, or "survival of the fittest".

[Pro_Whistler 37]

I've got a question. Noah and the Ark. Drowned everything. Except water dwelling animals. Why were they allowed to live?

[PtahWithin 1320]

...When it was first created. There are accounts of people living more than a thousand years in the Bible, and during this early, fresh, period, much time could have gone by. After the flood (which is what we believe caused fossils) the Earth was not the same, and the habitats were different. That's how dinosaurs supposedly died out according to our speculations. Lives would have been shorter because it was not the same perfect world. Dinosaurs just didn't adapt and they died out. In a sense, it is natural selection, or "survival of the fittest".

 

How is it that something like this survived,

 

But yet, something like this could not?

[Space 2335]

 

 

Yes, because ALL the 100's of religious crusades to genocide a race is comparable to our time where the worst stuff is a MINUTE amount of the horror our ancestors had to deal with.

 

 

 

[Praetor 1550]

The Great flood wouldn't make sense...

 

..Unless it's another metaphore which it very probably is. How else would you want all the races to be brought into a ship to survive the flood?

 

Firstly, there isn't a male and a female for all races, secondly there are millions of different races upon the surface of the earth it would be impossible to stock them all in a ship.

[Pro_Whistler 37]

I'm done attacking your religion. Sorry! You shouldn't have said Atheism was laughable...

[Wavejammers 328]

PROOF OF THE EXISTENCE OF THE HOLY NOODLINESS!!!!1111 HE HAS LEFT EVEDINCE IN OUR DNA!!!1

 

And christians, where did all that sudden water come from that "Flooded" the world once? and where did it go?

 

 

 

 

 

PS: My god has bigger balls then yours.

 

Atheist: 9000

Christians: 0

FSM: 1

[JtPv 140]

The Great flood wouldn't make sense...

 

..Unless it's another metaphore which it very probably is. How else would you want all the races to be brought into a ship to survive the flood?

 

Firstly, there isn't a male and a female for all races, secondly there are millions of different races upon the surface of the earth it would be impossible to stock them all in a ship.

You realize that only land animals would have to go onto the ship and, as I said before, they would only fit half of the arc. And Pro_Whistler, I never said that. 

EDIT: Sorry, Oskar, didn't see your post. And rain. It was brought through 40 days of rain.

[PtahWithin 1320]

You realize that only land animals would have to go onto the ship and, as I said before, they would only fit half of the arc. And Pro_Whistler, I never said that. 

EDIT: Sorry, Oskar, didn't see your post. And rain. It was brought through 40 days of rain.

Where did the rain come from.

[Praetor 1550]

There has always been the same amount of water since the world was created, it simply recycles. This is a proven fact and not a theory.

 

But anyway, I won't shake you of your beliefs and to be honest I don't really care what you believe in the end. Just remember that not all the bible is solid facts, and many things inside are not meant to be taken in the litteral sense.

[Wavejammers 328]

EDIT: Sorry, Oskar, didn't see your post. And rain. It was brought through 40 days of rain.

But "rain" is vaporized water (Mostly salt water) Meaning that A LOT of water needs to vaporate, but when water vaporize from the sea water, the ammount of water in the ocean falls (A very little, but if it were needed to rain 40 days water needs to vaporize 40 days so it would almost empty the oceans and lakes all over the world) It's called the water's cycle.

 

 

Short said: There've never been water enought on ze earth to rise the waterlevel to over  8.849 m

 

Edit: Danm you SpamShok, you ninja

 

And:

1. How could all the animals and human breathe in that hight?

2. In the aftermath, how did Noah get food after the boat landed? There were only a few animals left.. If he just killed one goat... All goats would become extinct... And farming wouldn't really help (See point 8)

3. How did Noah get food for all the animals? Not all animals eat fish.

4. How could Noah keep sure that the Lions didn't kill all the other animals?

5. How is there still Birds, Spinders and other reptile animals when the bible said only animals who breathe with their nostrils were allowed on their boat.

6. Since the bible said only animals who can breathe with their nostrils were allowed on the boat, would all the whales, dolphins, ect. be on the boat?

7. All water were mixed when the flood came... Why is there still fresh-water fish?

8. Almost every three sorts would have been killed by the flood... Why is there still tons of trees... It would take thousands of years for one familly to plant trees all over the world.

9. If god knows everything... Why wouldn't he know the outcome of the flood... The bible says he was so sad about what he had done, he would never do it again.

10. Why didn't people just go onto their own boats? They could fish for food, and rain is clean, so they could drink that.

 

And Noah is a meanie for not inviting the Unicorns and Dinosaurs.

[argonian 14254]

And christians, where did all that sudden water come from that "Flooded" the world once? and where did it go?

Well, since we believe he's an omnipotent being that created the entire universe...he made it out of thin air?

[JtPv 140]

First things first, am I seriously the only christian left on LotC? I mean, help me out here... anyways,

1. http://creation.com/did-noah-need-oxygen-above-the-mountains

2. This....was troubling. I could not find a single answer for this. But I would assume he stored much food away in the ark, and God kept it fresh. If anyone has studied the tabernacle, they would know about how God kept the manna fresh, so something like that probably. But I'm not certain. 

3. See point 2

4. God led every land animal to the ark in pairs. Don't you think He could calm the lions?

5. No, the Bible says all land animals came onto the boat. 

6. See point 5

7.

How Could Fish Survive the Genesis Flood?

by Kenneth B. Cumming, Ph.D.
Introduction

Much attention has been given to how the animals would be brought to, fit in, and survive on Noah's Ark.[1] But little or no concern has been voiced as to how aquatic animals could have lived outside in the Flood. Obviously, terrestrial air-breathing animals could not live through the land-covering deluge, but one would think aquatic animals would be right at home in all that water. Not so!

Water life has specific physiological and ecological requirements just like terrestrial life.[2] A catastrophe the size of the Flood would certainly bring with it gigantic problems affecting the very survival of many species. Indeed, the fossil record indicates that many taxonomic groups became extinct during the deposition of the geologic sedimentary layers.[3] Some organisms would have simply succumbed to the trauma of the turbulence. Others would have found suitable living space destroyed, and hence died for lack of appropriate habitat. For example, too much fresh water for obligate (bound to) marine species or vice versa would have led to death of those unable to adapt. Not only are there salt-concentration problems, but also temperature, light, oxygen, contaminants, and nutritional considerations. These must all be evaluated in discussing survival of water-dwelling creatures.

To simplify the exercise, five examples have been selected of fishes that are bound to fresh or salt water and those that can go between these major habitats. The chosen fishes (sunfish, catfish, trout, eel, and codfish) will be used to represent clear fresh water, muddy fresh water, anadromous (running up to fresh water from sea water to spawn), catadromous (the reverse) and obligate marine habitats or behavior, respectively. These categories will be discussed with reference to three main factors affecting their survival: salinity, temperature, and turbidity.

PHYSIOLOGICAL RANGES 
Salinity 

Fish have a problem in balancing the fluids outside their bodies with those inside. In general, freshwater fishes are constantly getting too much fresh water in their bodies from food, drinking water, and tissue transfer. On the opposite side, marine fishes get too little fresh water to maintain fluid balance due to the large input of salt in the drinking water and constant osmotic pressure to draw fresh water out of these tissues into the surrounding sea.[4]

The kidneys and gills are the two organs used to manage this balance. If a freshwater fish gets too much water, then the kidney is called upon to dump as much water as possible while retaining the circulating salts. Marine bony fish have to get rid of the excess salts largely through the gills and conserve the internal water through resorption.

Sea-run trout move from sea water to fresh water to spawn, while eels do just the opposite. Both have to be able to reverse their removal of water and salt according to the amount of salt in their environment. Sun fishes and cod remain in fresh water and sea water, respectively, for their whole life cycle. Salt content might range from nearly zero in freshwater to 35 parts per thousand (x103 ppm or 35,000 mg/l) in sea water. Obligate freshwater fish typically have an upper lethal level of seven parts per thousand (7,000 mg/l). Obligate marine species have a very narrow limit of salt tolerance.[5] Dromous (running/migrating) species are able to adapt to the new environments by osmotic regulation.

Temperature 

The range of temperatures tolerated by fishes varies from species to species and the assorted habitats. Some fish have a very narrow range of tolerance at the cold, warm, or hot temperature parts of the heat scale. Others show a wide range of heat tolerance from freezing to hot waters (0-32° C). Developmental stages are frequently limited by narrow temperature requirements within the overall range of the adult.

Most species, including cold-water types, can tolerate at least brief exposures to 24°C and low temperatures approaching 2°C, as long as there are prolonged acclimation periods (several days to weeks). Preferred temperatures for the representative adult fish are as follows: Trout, 16-21°C; sunfish, 16-28°C; catfish, 21-29°C; eel, probably 16-28°C; codfish 12-16° C. [6,7]

Turbidity 

Particulate matter that is in suspension in natural waters is measured photoelectrically as turbidity. It consists of erosional silt, organic particles, bacteria, and plankton. Such materials adversely affect fish by covering the substrate with a smothering layer that kills food organisms and spawning sites. In addition, the molar action of the silt damages gills and invertebrate respiratory structures. Fish combat such materials by secreting mucus that carries the particles away. Indirectly, turbidity screens out light and decreases the photic zone for photosynthesis. The range of turbidity might be described as: clear < 10 ppm (mg/l), turbid 10 to 25 

8. See point 2

9. God has emotions, like you or me. Let me put it another way. You know everyone dies, but when it happens to someone in your family, you can't believe it. God made us, and was forced to destroy us. He knew He would have to, but of course He was sad.

10. Because they didn't believe Noah. They aren't going to build giant arks like Noah for something they don't think is true.

[Wavejammers 328]

1. That's the worst response i've ever seen in my life... I'm 13 and I know that all mountians once were under the sea, and there they would've gotten their "fossils" And later have been formed by earthquakes pushing lava up... Have you ever heard about underwater mountians? those are perfect  exampels of it.

2. While reading The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster I noticed a short page in the start that said "If there's something that can be disproved, The Flying Spaghetti Monster will immediately change it"

3. See point 2

4. Just because animals (The same goes for human since we are animals too) are in pairs, it doesn't  mean they will not attack eachother... And also see point 2

5. Wrong, Genesis 7:14–15: "all in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was on the dry land, died"

6. See 5.

7. This Point does not apply to all kins of fish.. Like the goldfish for example.

8. See point 2

9. But god could see in future... He would know this would happen... And he still did it... That makes god a murderer.

10. For 10.000 years people have been bulilding boats, boats were buildt before the cart... Even before the wheel-less carts... And they've been used for fishing for about 10.000 too... People have been collecting clams for 15.000 years, and I'm pretty sure the time when a single person could buildt a giant boat to fit once of each animal who can breathe with it's nostrils were about the sime where people used fishing nets for mass fishing for animals like bass or karps. And they could just drink free "Holy" water from "The creator" 

 

To sound less confusing: A boat puls a fishing net would survive a mass flood because the boat would stay afloat and the person in the boat could stay hydrated and well fed. with the tools he have with him.

 

[Space 2335]

K lets get off this Noah's Ark shiz.