TeaLulu

1) "Its too much like ____". Null and void argument. A ton of already accepted lore has been derived or inspired by popular media such as games, etc. Ergo this point is null and void and no reason for lore denial, unless the lore is entirely copy pasted from said media, which this lore very much wasn't. 2) "Its too OP!" Nah brah Homunculi, but I'll get into this in detail further later, probably. Not that everyone hasn't already handled it. Basically, from what I can see, these things don't have anything Homunculi don't have; Heightened skills (strength, etc), regeneration, tough to kill (can't even really kill a Homunculi without a special potion, otherwise they will ALWAYS REGENERATE, also i guess they can get neck-deep in thanhium and be totally okay and not dead.), immortality, etc, etc... TBH, they probably have more weaknesses than homunculi since they seem more injured by gold and holy powers (Not being able to regenerate as easily, etc). So since homunculi got accepted with their current power level and lack of weaknesses, there is no way the LMs can deny this based off "OP" as a legit reason. 3) "Its too much like Frostwitches!" Hold Up No it isn't and I'm going to tell you why. First of all, those of you crying "You can just play a Frost witch!!" (and occasionally I have seen: "WHAT? YOU CAN'T PLAY A FROST WITCH BECAUSE IT MEANS PLAYING A WOMAN!!!? (rage)") For one, yes. People want to RP what gender they want to RP as. People have this right. Frost Witches being female-only is a huge aspect of their roleplay, as well as the fact they all seek to devour men,and any competent frost witch roleplayer will roleplay their frost witch as having a disdain for men (As opposed to, yknow, sleeping with them). These creatures are so insanely different from Frost Witches I have no idea where these comparisons are coming from. For one, these creatures are totally and completely infertile . Plenty of Frost Witches have had babies. And I do view infertility as a weakness and one that needs to be legitimately pointed out as part of the lore (Before people start trying to re-enact Twilight). Origins: The origins aren't at all similar so there's no confusion there. The origins of these creatures is fleshed out and very different. Ritual of Transformation: Very in depth, requires a lot of roleplay it seems. Cannibalism/whatever: If this is the source of the confusion, it's worth noting the reasons and forms of the cannibalism of frost witches VS Strigae are extremely different. They feed for different reasons. (Ex. Frost Witches only eat men for some reason) and these only drink blood. Forms: These things take multiple forms depending on the situation (from my understanding) and are much more bestial than FWs are; Far more frightening, far more beast like, far more interesting, when they are actually acting in the function of what they do; Feeding, smelling too much blood, losing control/willpower, etc? Query: Can that change be accidental by loss of willpower when in bloodlust? Feeling cold to the touch: This makes sense for these things when they haven't fed as they have nothing to 'warm' them, i presume either due to the lack of blood or the lack of digestion/food. Similar to like, low blood sugar IRL but they don't have blood. Behaviors/motivations: Different different, no motivation to kill men or any specific people; Just to feed, but the Greater ones will likely have far more in-depth motivations to their characters than that. I'm not being salty towards Frost Witches, just saying: Stop trying to forcefully draw a comparison when there isn't one. These things would add an ENTIRELY different sort of roleplay to the server than what the Frost Witches do, and since that roleplay they would provide is so achingly different, there is no comparison. Anyways tl;dr: more spooks but like, human-style urban-center fashioned spooks. +1 seems like the humans would benefit from a type of "evil creature" roleplay that they, in general, seem to be interested in.

Tbh that's always been my assumption of the function. If the entire Veil fell, then wouldn't all the worlds get mashed together into soup? nice change but also pls write up veil lore thx would love to see hugs <3

Here's the thing, imo, and based off of past experience of high-up staff wanting to create an Aengudaemon and how it winds up; You can't not have detail here. You can't leave it as overtly vague as it is. You can't really go off the posts Benbo made to explain the Aengudaemons when none of them ever actually had a real "Lore submission" post. The posts Benbo made are for the aspects of those aengudaemons which already exist; Not to try and justify the creation of another one. When someone submits lore, its sort of on that person's shoulders to give, at the least, some suggestion as to what the intent to that lore's acceptance would be. Your lore is, regrettably, very very very vague as to what you would actually do if it was accepted. Who would be 'enacting his works'? How would they be chosen? What works are they? Do you intend to use this Aengudaemon as the basis for further lore, all of which you will post publicly and have accepted before implementation? The fact there is no really defined "action plan" listed is an issue to me, and part of the reason my initial impression is, "This is just an Aengul for some staff member to play as their personal character." Aside from the lack of "action plan" for this Aengul, I also have other red flags such as; - The implication that he depicts and presents himself as a human. For him to be depicting himself at all, someone has to play that character... -The implication he has always existed, and since the dawn of time has been helping; The fact that people know him and his name implies he has descended and interacted with people very frequently, which is something that, it is implied, would occur if the lore was accepted. - The fact it is "not uncommon" to hear about his Immortal Plane... which implies people are and have been throughout history, frequently whisked away to his immortal plane, something which is not at all intended to be common among Aengudaemons (to my knowledge) and implies a greater level of interaction. Other issues I have: The Lore implies he was literally responsible for the invention and eventual dissemination of shoes; Honestly, I don't like this. I don't like the idea that mortalkind is literally incapable of designing simple inventions without Aengudaemonic intervention. I don't like that you seem to be implying that a lot of mundane inventions throughout history would turn out to be the work of this Aengudaemon all along, and oops, looks like the mortals can't tie their own shoelaces without an Aengudaemon holding their hand. It's been well publicized by the Lore team that they don't want nor need lore for mundane things (shoes, clothing, thread, jewelry, food, normal plants, etc). One implication I'm getting, due purely to the vague writing in this lore, is that this Aengudaemon is basically semi-responsible for a lot of 'world-improving' inventions. Like the mortals can't do anything on their own. So, how can you improve? You'd need to provide something of an OOC mission statement and/or action plan dictating what you intend this Aengul to truly exist for. As well, what would be "retconned" to become something this Aengul was responsible for? You'd need to clarify the following - Whether or not this Aengudaemon will be playable, and if so, in what function/role and by whom. - What level of interaction this Aengudaemon would have with mortal kind, and with what frequency. - What exactly you intend to have done with this lore. Will you be writing further lore and submitting it for approval with this Aengul as the 'explanation' for how the lore came to pass? Or will you just do things and not need to write more lore for those things? - Will this Aengudaemon be gifting further people with magic Aengudaemon powers? Will people start getting visions? Who is going to decide who gets to interact with this Aengudaemon? - Is it going to turn out this Aengudaemon was responsible for any inventions or currently existing daily use items that exist in the world? If so, you need to list them. No one wants this Aengul to be accepted and then it turns out afterwards he claims to be the only reason we have shoes. Or boats. Or Carts. Or the wheel or something. Yes, I'm going far out there and just making a lot of radical assumptions; But I have seen a lot of aengudaemon-based staff abuse in my day, so, I'm preparing for the worst and theorizing that the worst happens; Thats not a personal insult to you, thats just me knowing how this stuff goes most of the time. - What will you actually do with this Aengul? Interact with players? Do events? Eventlines? Storylines? Use it as a lore excuse for specific items and thats it? (Ala Rasmot, where you can find items he made but never has anyone ever played or met the guy) I'm also cautious based off one of your replies on this thread, which states " Tabbris is essentially a name for the 'Lord' in LotC, who is known to aid the descendants throughout their efforts. Perhaps in roleplay, this could be someone roaming within a desert, dehydrated - however they stumble upon a desert as they come to near exhaustion, they would say, "Thank you Tabbris", "Thank Tabbris." " This is a huge red flag to me. What that says to me, literally right there, is you...want to make an Aengudaemon representation of the Creator. And give the Creator... a name. You intend for players and characters to interpret this Aengudaemon, which originally was named after you, as ....God? I just...no, absolutely not. That's not acceptable to me. Sorry. That tells me you want to have an Aengul just so they can be praised instead of the Lord? All of the above is why I have some severe reservations. We've had a lot of shitty Aengudaemons made in the past. Like, a lot. And the creators of them? Well, they tend to want to use them for their own purposes, or they get super possessive and never let go of them, and sometimes when things don't go their way they threaten to remove the lore entirely or some other such nonsense. I'm cautious at best about this. And Fury everyone is saying that because at first this Aengudaemon was named "Wrynn"

It has been stated by the lore team that Aengudaemon lore for new Aengudaemons is expected to be top notch, above average quality. Okay, naming it after yourself is a huge red flag (which also tells me, despite all you claim about it not being playable, you would intend to play it at some point), so I mean good on you for getting that hint and changing it. But to me this lore is not above average or of significant addition to the server. It's another goody-goody aengul that "likes to help" and etc. It's not really interesting. There's no depth to it. Just another way to lead into special snowflake aengudaemon magic, which we have more than enough of. This lore doesn't, to me, add anything of interest or intrigue. It also isn't particularly creative nor does it seem like it took a lot of effort or time invested to come up with it and design it.

this is a meme right

It was removed because the original lore writer wanted it removed and believed it wasn't fulfilling it's purpose its a fairly useless magic prone to powergaming and other issues and to my knowledge the fact there was no way to break out of it was incredibly obnoxious to some people. it could be used to hamper someone's character after an OOC falling out, for example. If something gets removed I don't think it should be added back without extremely good reason. Besides, magic is bloated enough as it is and I just don't see how this adds anything interesting to it, so -1 on my end. I also would not want the "lorekeeper" of it, if it was accepted, to be anyone but a top LM who is familiar with spook magics (Zarsies, Benbo, Swgr, definitely not ski given recent events) and allow them to completely handle re-release of it without allowing it to be open to potential abuse or bias in the handing-out of the magic.

aaaaaaayyyy I love it but a thing I noticed; " Others say, that all this while, that power is being spent. That down there, at the bottom of the ocean floor, the Lords Revenant discovered something. It would take thousands of years of necromancy to raise this corpse. The corpse of an Aengul. " You will probably want to make this separately vague or remove it. I understand its not necessarily a part of the lore proposal (as it is just part of the "story" being told and just rumor), but some people may think it is and that may trigger them. And there is no really defined manner of what sort of corpse, if any, an Aengul would leave. When they descend to our plane they take humanoid shapes, normally. However as evidenced by Nemiisae they can also take other forms, such as her turning into a giant spider. I would just keep it vague to "That down there, at the bottom of the ocean floor, the Lord Revenant discovered something. All of their power they funnel towards this discovery, a perhaps vain attempt to raise whatever corpse they had discovered, millenia ago." and then if you want to do something with that later talk to LMs or submit a different lore proposal.

Sadly they can't be made of metal! Only stone materials. Clay, quartz, stone, granite, etc. My current focus is on researching different materials they could be made out of and running it by James who is assisting me with golemancy related questions, etc. While Dworkin was a very powerful and talented golemancer, runesmith, etc, in ancient times, I don't really want to set the precedent of "these golems get to break lore because of the talent of the creator." So I am working on work-arounds. Expect edits when I have time in between my RL and ET duties to specialize these Muses a little bit more to give them more character, including the materials used in their construction. If you have suggestions for interesting materials for me to try and pass by the LMs. Ex: The Muse of Magic ref photo is a purple almost glowing color. Opal is a mineral that flouresces in different shades after exposure to UV light. That means after being out in the sun, the Muse would go back underground or into the shade and would give off sort of a glow, which just adds a nice interesting touch to the muse's character.

here's the problem with all objections based on "Tah wouldn't allow that!" and "Xan wouldn't like that!" and "holy deities wouldn't let their people use that!" it doesn't matter what they want/like. Plenty of clerics, ascended, paladins, druids, have all diverged from the designated "path" of their Patrons. They still remained connected to their magic. There is no slingshot raygun long-distance disconnection. The holders of the Aengudaemon's powers are their literal hands and feet on the mortal plane. They literally have to enact their will, as the Aengudaemons cannot do that themselves without descending. Aengudaemonic patrons disconnecting people from afar because of the person's actions is powergaming. The Patrons cannot govern themselves what a mortal does with their power once they have it. The other issue is, it is a misnomer to refer to any Aengudaemonic powers as "holy". They are, yes, specifically designed to combat 'taint' based magics, but that doesn't make them holy. It just means they were specifically designed for that purpose. So you can't say, based on the justification that some Aengudaemonic magic is "holy" that it would be incompatible with certain other magics, unless those magics literally involved the user being tainted, and the aengudaemonic magic in question was designed to fight taint. Those two things are incompatible. Its like if there was an Aengudaemonic magic specifically designed to combat voidal magic; It would then make no sense if that user was a voidal mage. But blood magic isn't "tainted" and doesn't qualify as a "tainted" magic, so there is no reason it is incompatible with any other magic. Thus, any arguments that "x Aengudaemon wouldn't allow that" or "holy magic can't be used in conjunction with this!" fall through the floor and are rendered useless.

Thank you! With that all cleared up, still floor is open for suggestions and additions. I have editted each Muse with some more info about them/their features/appearance. Still looking for more reference pics.

Lago literally had a traditional thanhium multi-core golem created by the High Elves. Though I believe some of his cores were aurum cores and the central one was a large thanhium one? Either way, thanhium was involved. There have been a couple of multi-core traditional golems made since, or at least, attempts at them. If Lightning-bound is, for some reason, the only option (which it assuredly isn't), then it is entirely possible to have been an early discovery made by this individual and then later re-discovered (as some discoveries often are after being lost) by the Derva. There's nothing that should, realistically, prevent that possibility, especially since it is made clear that the method of creating multi-core golems cannot be learned even by dismantling the muses, though people have, assuredly, attempted such in the past, causing many of them to be currently damaged/broken.

make remove **** changes to my lore by a corrupt LM who just wanted to make them more powerful for his own benefits +1