TeaLulu

I have a question please. What purpose does this lore serve? This is intended to serve as a foundation from which to expand on Orcish History and Lore There was already lore for ancient orc events and history written. There is already a foundation to be drawn from which has been drawn from in RP in every map since Aegis - Even you, unknowingly, have drawn from this history. There is more to the story, but that will all be unveiled during the next map, which is infact based on Orcish history, and will be the Isles of Mor'Ghuun. That is probably forever and a day away, and is unnecessary to be wrote up now - Also, I disdain the idea of a singular figure being responsible for entire foundation lore of a map, considering the fact that that's what happened with this and prior maps, this current map's foundation lore largely having been made by SupremacyOps, who I hold no secrets about my disdain towards. So to me, this reads like you'd like to be the new SupremacyOps, only for Orcs. I'll work on the general writing and so on in the future, but for now I wanted to get this out there because it's been sitting in a google document for far too long Don't get upset at critical feedback you're receiving for unfinished lore. It's good you got it out in mere skeletal form - Now we can help point out the various breaks in the bones so you can bury it and make a new one. And yes, the death of Horen was previously accepted, historical lore. This specific version of his death story is previously accepted historical lore? Show me where. I think not. If it was, it is one thing that deserves a good retconning - There's no need to get into the canonical deaths of the Four Fathers, unless you have literally server-wide unanimous approval... Or close to it. Mog handled it well when he wrote the original lore, leaving the fate a mystery. I appreciate the openness and trying to be open and public with lore - But the key to being open and public with lore submissions is that you understand that people will give feedback on it, and in some cases it may be majorly negative - Don't get defensive over your lore when people don't receive it well and want to correct it. I'll be honest, personal opinion here- I don't think the Four Brothers hated each other nor would they try to attack each other except for severe reasons, and even then I wonder if that would be enough for them to kill each other. I doubt it. I hate Apohet and how he's been utilized - I hate how Aenguldaemonic-centric it makes the Orc culture. The #1 interesting thing Orc culture had running for it was the lack of direct aengudaemonic influence in it's culture and magic. Yea, we had the spirits - But the spirits aren't aengudaemons, and we never interact with the Aengudaemon who created them himself. MAJOR POINT OF CONTENTION: The dead that had perished in the battle against Iblees were flooding into the spirit realm. Apohet knew that the Creator would be perturbed, at the very least, at this development, I'm sorry, are you saying that everyone who died in the battle against Iblees went to the spirit realm? Because it's been established that would not be the case. I know your next sentence is as below: He made sure this happened for the rest of time, and even now Apohet makes sure that the dead pass swiftly through his realm, to their respective afterlives. But I've always thought it stupid that apparently all dead (I don't even know when this happened, but I guess apparently it did???) pass through the spirit realm - It's asinine. The Spirit Realm has always been the domain of the Orcs. The Ancestral plane, always the Orcish domain. When everyone and their dog passed through the Spirit Realm to get to Axios, I wanted to choke a puppy due to the idiocy and illogical nature of it all. (No offense to the writers - But it was stupid in my opinion, and contrary largely to the general "atmosphere" and prior writing and lore involving Orcs and the Spirit realm. It seemed contrary to the whole system to have the entire world flood the Spirit Realm and move boats through it. It also threw out a lot of prior event story already established for 5.0) Just seems unnecessary to me that a racial-specific realm (the spirit realm, largely being reserved as an Orcish thing) has an impact on ALL the races (all souls passing through it at death) Finally, and with an iron fist, Krug had subjugated all who had opposed him, and once again claimed the title of Rex of all Orcish people. Mog's already established the inaccuracy of this, so I won't linger on that point any further. Until suddenly, a voice spoke out within Krug’s mind. It was the Spiritual Element of Air, who had taken notice of Krugs profound bellowing. Krug spoke out to the voice, challenging it out of caution and curiosity. why would Krug, the Brother who Resisted, speak out to a mysterious unknown voice. I'm not going to go into the nonsense non-existent Orcish "heroes" you bring up in your lore. The lore team needs to get it together - Do you guys want to involve player contribution into lore, or not? Because Leo seems to be pushing heavily for it, but you, despite having a wealth of history and clans which far surpasses what the Wood Elves ever had available to them, seem to be insistent on ignoring all that lore and story and making your own **** up. Still, his physical strength alone was too mighty to conquer, and so, with an iron rule, the first Rex of the united Empires instructed them all to make waves of war ships in preparation for their vengeance. Again; Wasn't Rex. I may be missing something, but what exactly is the Vengeance payment for? What the **** did Horen do? He was tricked, as ALL the brothers except Krug were, and then when he realized it, he helped fight Iblees. So what the **** did Horen do against Krug? I refuse to believe Horen would abandon Krug, or any of the Four Brothers would abandon each other to face Iblees - That implies Horen didn't help fight Iblees. So really, what does Krug have to get vengeance for that he's going this far out of his way? That he's leading armies? I also think you need to preface this lore with "THE DISHONORABLE AND EASY DEATH OF HOREN" so the human players can get in on this and comment, because this is not just Orcish lore, this is impacting Human lore and their history as well, so don't try to sneak the death of Horen into this lore and act like it's entirely Orcish lore. Then, we have this: He created what some would describe as a filter; allowing those with souls of Honour, Spirituality and Virtue to enter his realm Which disregards the earlier statement in the lore saying: He made sure this happened for the rest of time, and even now Apohet makes sure that the dead pass swiftly through his realm, to their respective afterlives. If the souls are all passing through the Spirit Realm, then obviously there is no filter only allowing those of honor, spirituality, and virtue to enter his realm. All souls pass through, according to this, therefore there's no such thing as a filter on the realm. in finality a cycle they too would suffer, for such was the curse of Iblees. i hate the word "cycle" thanks to mathic age bullshit and am triggered by this. please remove. P.S. Aegis has long since been confirmed the origin of the Four Brothers and all that, and these other shitty racial-themed maps we're going to are just where they all went to settle. They're all on the same plane as Aegis and in roughly close physical proximity, i.e., a few weeks ship sail away.

I have to say there's some substance to concerns about using currently-founded houses in any official ancient origins/history for any race. The main concern I can see isn't just giving validation to current houses in the event of political feuding, etc, but more so that the act ostracizes potential new houses and prevents the formation of new power blocks via RP. Take it this way - Because these houses that you mention in the lore are all controlled by current players (I assume), they are all identified as the only dark elven houses of importance in history. Obviously they're not the only dark elven houses, they can't be, but these are all the ones of importance. Even if you work it in such that the current dark elven clans, including opposing factions, are all factored into this lore, you're putting up a rather large blockade to the formation of new Dark Elven clans which want to have some connection to this history. You're preventing a new group from saying, "I want to establish a clan that's (RPly speaking, not necessarily in actual RP as none of the current clans in actual RP have been) been around for ages, since the early days of the dark elves". Except now there's this lore that basically says, "Well, here's the clans that were around and were of any importance". So then that group says, "Okay, well, I like this part about X group in ancient history. I want my clan to be like an off-shoot of them, but with some changes". Problem being that X group has a current player base in LOTC. If new group shows up and tries to be an ancient off-shoot of their shared ancestors, the Player Base of that group, if they are assholes, can just say: "No, we have no off-shoots in our clan. It's always been singular. So we're denying that you're real.", thusly completely undermining that new group and their legitimacy from the start, no matter how well-written their lore or history, the current Player Base of the clan they claim to be related to can just deny their legitimate descent ICly and make them basically useless. At the same time, new group can't make a dark elf clan that has no relation to this ancient history (which is now full of currently roleplayed family lines), because then New Group is less influential - They have the impact of not being as "ancient" a line, their family history had no impact on racial history, etc. I am not saying you can't put current houses in ancient history. Don't accuse me of that right off the bat. I'm saying you need to leave a pathway for new players or groups to integrate into the society by creation of their own clans. When we're talking thousands of years ago, and only a few specific bloodlines that were ever of actual "importance", all of which are played by player groups nowadays, that's really making it difficult for a new group or new players to start a new clan, because how can they tie into the history? Especially if they want to be contrary to the current powerbase, like the Warhawkes. Yes, you can absolutely make accounts for all current playerbases of dark elves, but you also need to make account for the ability of new groups to be established which can connect themselves back to dark elven history without infringing upon the ground of player-character clans which may impede their advancement by way of disenfranchisement.

i don't think nature could give consent for this bond

to be honest i could see a lot of use from this "difficult to cast and requires planning" magic in terms of traps, etc. It would require planning and tactical genius as opposed to slash-and-dash I can also see a lot of event applications (not necesarily to make them special snowflake heroes in event, but to make them important support characters who are busy casting spells to weaken/hold off the enemy while normal chars can do the actual killing)

Dark shamansinflicted with the Shade, however, may gain some ill sort of respect from the more twisted spirits. Dark Shamanism works differently now, and I highly doubt any spirits, twisted or otherwise, would respect a form of magic that descends from Iblees' power. You'll have to name specific ones rather than just be vague and claim "twisted spirits" would respect Shade magic for any reason... I may be speaking out of turn, but I've a feeling the shamans may not appreciate the idea that shades can become some... new version of old-school dark-shamans by convincing "twisted spirits" to work with them via...respect?? I also feel like the somewhat vague adjustments to magic that Shade magic allows you to perform may open the floodgates to an unfortunate amount of nigh-powergaming use of magic similar to how Unsound magic wound up being used in the majority. I dunno. Seems to encompass... a bit more stuff than is really necessary? Like being able to grow your earth evocations in size after casting, that breaks both the red lines of earth evocation (once you send the spell flying you can't change it, is what I was taught) and also Shade magic (you can't use your magic outside a certain range)? I understand the growth is due to..."corrupted mana", but it's still causing the ability of shade magic to move outside their established "range". Maybe I'm misunderstanding things.

k sent u a PM

Hey bathy, Is this something you'd want to see about putting in 5.0? Is it in schematica form? What kind of storyline if any would you like to see in it (or would you leave that up to ET to figure out?)? What kind of lore would be used in said storyline? Would it be a repeatable dungeon? Obv I'd need to see it and run through it and make sure its not just a death trap before any implementation.

Pretty vague but could definitely be expanded upon: I regret that with Vailor so near it's end there isn't much we can do with this here and now, but it is something that could/will be considered in the next map. Is this something that would only be unlocked with taint, aka Orgon's power, or is it possible you'd be interested in seeing ruins/lost areas that can only be unlocked through the use/worship of other spirits? What form would that take? Or would you prefer to see a route where taint rots land, causing ruins of all racial origins to be revealed, thus giving both shamans (w/ Orgon's power) as well as necromancers, incentive to taint/destroy land in certain areas, hoping to uncover ruins wherein lies treasures/lost powers?

This seems to be a very generic "Grr necromancers" type of event. Can you provide any unique use of existing lore (besides just necromancy magic lore) or something interesting for the storyline that could make this event more interesting/intriguing to players? Roughly how many events would this occur within? It looks to me that it could only be worth 2 events: 1) Discovery (of the mining shafts/event area) 2) Exploration (and conflict with the lich/undead) You should look at ways to spread these events out, to involve more and perhaps create more "stages" of the event. Ex. Stage 1: Discovery: Players discover the area but cannot access very far into it due to a blockade of some kind. Maybe an ancient sealed door? Maybe the mine is a maze which contains pieces of the key to the door? Maybe some group of ancient and forgotten heroes locked the lich away and bits of their journals are about, alluding to how they all took 1 out of say, 10 keys needed to open the door, and left, swearing never to tell anyone what happened; Then players could go search down each of these ancient heroes (From varying races) and discover their fates and find their keys to open the door. (The journals wouldn't mention the lich itself, they should be kept vague so players have possible reasoning to open the door; Leave enough room for them to assume there is treasue [Which there should be, as a reward for defeating the lich]) Stage 2: Finding the keys (or other method of opening the path/door/whatever) (This can be a number of mini-events for a wide range of people) Stage 3: Exploration Stage 4: Conflict/fight (This and exploration may take place in tandem) Stage 5: Victory! (Or possibly not, or maybe victory-but-with-catches which can then lead to later events)

I feel like this is super interesting, one question tho: If the tool is used for a dishonourable purpose, or is activated by anyone else but its owner and or creator, there is a chance of failure of activation. Examples might be a human, who obtained a weapon attempting to use it. Or an orc wanting to use it onto another orc. (A non-whitewash orc that is.) This is sort of vague, like how would it be defined? I think if you made it so only the creator could use it, or there was some method of designating an owner (tying their blood to the weapon somehow, maybe? or their name in transcribed runes? idfk). But then with the "Dishonorable" thing, theres a lot of vagueness to that. What if the owner tried to rob a defenseless pregnant lady with it? Is that an honorable action, to try to A) rob someone and B) rob someone who can't defend themselves ?

I love it, but: 1) What happens if the Avatar is slain in combat? Do they regenerate and re-appear later? Do they still react to pain the same way a physical fleshy creature would? (Like, Klin isn't unbeatable in combat, right? She can be slain, but then what happens?) 2) It should be clarified ET cannot use these as personal characters. I would not knowingly let any ET ever do that, but you can never be too careful. 3) Clarify to what extent Lekeni can heal; We don't want ET to be using him as an excuse to bring people back from the near-dead or deus ex machina a situation. 4) Do any of these avatars give out gifts, and if so how would they be obtained? (This is for consideration in terms of loot to be gained from an encounter with one of these; IS there any, or nub?) And the question I'm now asking going forward to all lore submissions: What does this add to roleplay? I can answer that myself! A new way for players to learn about and sort-of interact with the Spirits, and it allows that same roleplay to venture out of the areas of the Uzg and into other places/nations, as these beings may appear anywhere (assumedly?). I think it's really a great bit of lore for Events.

There's about 15 reasons I could give for why I dislike this idea and cannot possibly support it. I'm going to try and focus on just a few of those to avoid spending too much of my time on this. It has been known that in the past druidic magic encompassed weather control, be it naturally from their magic and was reserved to those who were skilled in the art, and were able to call forth large storms, which grew in size and strength when in a large group. Five months ago Ouity attempted to resubmit lore to return it into the server, and was denied for a multitude of reasons. I personally feel that re-adding the lore, but in a different way, would add an interesting flair and would be quite good. Now, allow me to respond to the points that helfiazz made in his end point. Alright, they would "add an interesting flair", but that's not the question all lore submitters should ask themselves. Everyone who writes/submits lore should ask "What Roleplay would this lore add to the server? How would it be interesting or new, or not available elsewhere? In addition, keeping them in "stone" form rather than as a teachable magic, allows the "powerful" Druids to further consolidate their magic to only include those whom they like and to disclude anyone who is not part of their group. Because it's not teachable, and is confined to the stones, it means it can't possibly slip from the grasp of those who control it so long as they leave it in a hidden locked chest 100% of the time, or only use it for "Events", attempting to use the "Event" excuse to prevent any theft or attack (FYI if this ever did happen, I would make sure the ED responsible was removed. Don't do it.) - Precedents don't count, especially if there's not been any lore for it. Controlling weather has never been in any druid guide. Where precedents don’t count, I can certainly agree and understand that there’s been no actual lore behind it, however there has been role-play that involved it meaning that there is a way to place it as it happening due to magical artifacts, instead of the druid’s themselves. There may have been role-play with it (Which we have not yet seen an unbiased thirdparty attest to ever happening), but that doesn't mean it was ever canon or accepted to the server. Do you know how much BS edgy random-magic RP happened in Aegis/Asulon that wasn't canon or lore-approved, was OP, and made no sense? If we accepted every single thing as lore just on the basis of "it's been role-played before", the server would be full of a lot of unrealistic, lore/canon-breaking nonsense that was made just to power others up. So claiming that it should be accepted on the basis of "Role-play happened with it before" is totally invalid and in a way even weakens your argument for acceptance, because there is no way the Lore Department is going to risk setting that precedent. - It's not established that druids communion extends beyond animal and plant control/change. The only spell that doesn't influence a living being directly is blight healing, and even that could be seen as plant healing in some way. The argument that weather is part of nature is pure nonsense; soil and rivers are part of nature and are necessary to life, but it would be ridiculous for Druids to control those. I am unable to disagree once more, there is no actual establishment that says that the druids themselves are able to have a ‘spell’ that influences anything outside of what you explain. That is where this artifact comes into play, a conversion of sorts as I said before and that has a unique feel in my opinion. Keep this point well in mind, there is no establish evidence that druid communion extends beyond what it already does, which is already extremely varied. Druidic power is one of only 2 magics that allows the users to directly change the world we're in in great ways; The other being shamanism. Druids can heal extensive areas of blight, and grow new forests, and groves, and blah blah etc. But the difference between how druids and shamans interact with and change the environment is important and touched on later in this response: Druids interact with nature and control/change it. Shamans utilize spirits to interact with "The world at large", not solely nature, and in fact a Shaman could not do the things a druid does; Talk to animals, grow a giant grove, cleanse a land of taint (i don't believe), etc. In addition, allowing this to pass through would set a "precedent" of sorts of Druids being able to/having artifacts that can interact/change things that their powers cannot. If the Druids have an artifact that can control the weather, why can't they have one that controls the soil and rivers?? Escalation could happen and it should be avoided altogether: Magics should have to stick to their general theme/basis of their lore, and no one should get super-special artifacts that go beyond that gifted to them by their Dieties or whatever. - Your attitude is and has been piss-poor. This does matter. This doesn’t really put part in the now, though I would like to apologise. Not just to you, hellfiazz, but to the entirety of the Lore Department (Team), and I would like to say that I do strive for a better work partnership between the druids, and the staff. - Druidism is already is a very versatile and rich magic. It has a plethora of abilities, and there is no need for more. - Shamanism can already manipulate the weather in this exact manner. I put these two points together because I have a very similar answer for both, or more so response to both. This is where our opinions differ, I feel that there shouldn’t be a wall that stops the growth of something simply because it is considered rich, or versatile, because all magics are versatile in the right hands, and even all magic seems to step on others toes. For example, shamanism gets its toes stepped on (or it steps on toes, depending on perspective) to druidism and evocation, now I don’t mind this as it adds more and I don’t say this as a negative, simply explaining my thought process, as well as opinions. And here we are on druids vs shamans. The Lore Department has repeatedly stated that Lore should add something new/unique to the server. Lore has in the past been denied PURELY on the basis that it does not add anything new to the server and/or because there already is a magic/creature/etc that is similar to the lore submitted. This is already part of the Lore Dept's method of deciding if lore is acceptable or not. It's a good base "qualifier" to see if lore really should be added to the server; If there's already lore that does the same thing, or similar, or if it adds nothing new to the server, then its not necessary. This gets back to the point that shaman magic is different from druid magic. It makes logical sense for Shamans to be able to control the weather when they reach a high tier. Shaman act through the spirits and the spirits act through the shamans; There are spirits which are capable of dictating things that are "natural" that druids don't have control over; Earth, water, weather, plague, etc. It makes sense for Shamans to be able to control magic, because that fits in with the "theme" and "Basis" of their powers. For the reasons stated above it does not make sense for Druids to control weather, it is not a good method of controlling weather, and there is already a magic which controls weather (and it makes sense that they do so), so there is no need to add another method of weather control as it would not "Add" anything new to roleplay or the server, aside from a very select few of druids being able to do something that doesn't make sense for the "basis" of their magic. P.S., Shamans in Aegis could control weather before the druids. Any claim of "Druidic" weather control would be from Respiren abusing his GM powers and shooting lightning/changing the weather in-game, none of which was legitimate RP or approved Lore, which cannot be claimed as "proof" of druids controlling weather in the past.