TeaLulu

I am disappointed that you've placed a subtle but noticeable further push for Malin as a historical figure and character to be anti-voidal, anti-magic, especially with the excuse of "power from another plane", yet he is fine with power from another plane in the form of the Aspects. Otherwise good lore, but would you mind toning down your obvious continual pushes for the "true" way of Elves to be anti-magic, pro-druid? Before you try to bring up an unequal comparison; Yes, the Orcs are pro-shaman.... But they have ALWAYS been pro-shaman in ROLEPLAY. The Elves have not always, IN ROLEPLAY, placed druidism and the aspects as such a high central part of their culture and religion. Orcs have, since Aegis. Just disappointing that you're continuing to try and "shape" Malin into a figure that supports your own OOC and IC views, irregardless of all the other different aspects of elves, lore, and roleplay that exist. When in doubt, keep it vague, rather than try and...do what you've been doing for a long time in your lore.

I'm not antagonizing anyone, I'm just stating for the record that she's biased against me and should have no say in any decisions involving me, my lore, or my writing. I shouldn't have to re-write a lore that was stolen from me, Tahmas, and used without my permission by SupremacyOps while I was on hiatus. I'm rightfully upset that after years of trying to get what was written by me back in my hands, I've reached no conclusion. Quite frankly considering the lore was plagiarized, maybe the situation should be approached differently by administration? If you've just gotten home from work perhaps you ought to sit and have a cup of tea before accusing this of being a pissing contest. You've been really antagonistic lately and maybe you just need to take a break. Meg has graciously reached out to me about the magic and she and Phil are being extremely understanding of why I am upset; my lore being stolen, reworked, abused, OP'd, and kept out of my reach for five years. I'll be working with them to try and address the many many issues that exist with the lore, but perhaps, as many others have said, its time to put anti-magic in the ground.

The fi' community is by and large a clique of solely high elves created originally by supremacyOps. Given the extensive changes this magic has endured it should not even exist as it is. As stated by Aerial clearly the whole of the fi' community was not consulted prior to this write up, so there you go. When it comes to lore, you cannot take into account only what the playerbase effected would want. In the majority, the playerbase effected is ALWAYS going to want MORE power, at LESS Cost, even if that means less interesting RP in the majority. That was how Fi became the shitshow it is now; Supremacy wanted a super special magic for his high elves and over time he made it more and more overpowered at less and less cost, writing out more and more. Here are some examples of how the lore has changed from SUPREMACY'S write up- Not even mine! Supremacy's write up copy of my stolen work. 1) using ghosts to create a fi mage 2) not needing a close connection for the pk sacrifice to create a fi mage 3) not needing to have any mental side effects as a result of fi magic 4) being able to use both types of fi magic in one mage 5) less and less physical downsides to fi magic 6) being able to "heal" fi magic This magic, as any other magic, also effects OTHER PLAYERS on the server, and its clear that it has been made more and more powerful at less and less cost since it's inception. Considering this, can you fairly say that only the playerbase effected should have a right to speak to this? Considering fi magic was written with one of my character as an 'event and lore' character for implementation, do I not also have a right to speak to this? Stop being blind to what the former fi' users and the rest of the playerbase, including the /original author who had her work stolen/ are saying. Fitermon; Then I advise you let the rest of the Lore Team knows, as the Event Team knows, that if they have any issue with any members of the community, they shouldn't be commenting on their posts in any sort of official capacity. I wouldn't jump at the opportunity to shoot down an event post by Vardak or something, because that isn't professional behavior. Delmo's post was unprofessional and just an attempt to try and neg me due to her issues with me. Delmo, you're well aware I'm the original author as this isn't the first time we've had a discussion about fi magic. Please do not accuse me of being a liar in a public forum, it's unprofessional. If I need to go dig up logs of your previous issues with me on behalf of Menarra for what amounts to no other reason other than my being close to Mogroka and being happy to post my opinion of Menarra's many, many, many publicly documented abuses of power, I'm happy to do so. If i need to go dig up logs in Paladin chat of you leaving for no reason and blaming me, if I need to go dig up logs of Tsuyose asking me not to talk to you because you don't like me, I will. Again, my request still stands that Fi either be given a complete re-write to return it to it's original form as intended by the author /whose work was stolen/, or scrapped entirely. Thanks.

Yea, you're one of the previously aforementioned LMs who, despite having this issue of the fact my lore was stolen and turned into a heaping pile of terrible mediocrity, has refused to work with me repeatedly or allow me to re-write it to what it was meant to be - Likely due to the fact you just, personally, do not like me. Quite frankly, you shouldn't have any standing on this matter due to your bias against me. Besides, I stated my request to put this re-write aside and allow me to re-write the magic as it was intended to the entire LM team - You alone don't have the authority to claim that request as denied. Continue trying to abuse your power against me just because you don't like me, and I'm going to be putting in a staff report.

This is ACTUAL feedback, I'm not throwing a fit I'm just not going to write it all fancy. Fi magic was ruined a LONG, LONG time ago by Supremacy. If you want me to actually edit it into what it was originally meant to be, as in, a piece of lore which; 1) Contributed to roleplay in many factors 2) Was more interesting and intriguing than your average voidal magic (which is what this is, now) 3) Was dark to the core 4) Required a GREAT deal of effort to achieve 5) Was never a magic you couild ever seek to gain for yourself 6) Would generate more roleplay than this Then consider this an official request to the LMs; As original creator of the lore which was then stolen by SupremacyOps, its time to set things right. Please put this re-write aside, put all plans for Fi aside, and allow me to completely re-write it from scratch back into what it was meant to be. Hey, as the LT who introduced Fi as one of the problem child magics that needed a looking at/re-write, and also as I worked with Rella extensively on this, I want to clarify a few things. The current Fi userbase was contacted as to the re-write, as they are the ones who have the most vested interest in what would happen to the magic. This was an attempt to rectify some of the less than desirable changes Connor made to the magic, but I will bring up in chat the issue of you being unhappy with changes to something that was originally your concept, Lulu. It is a touchy subject in terms of at what point does a concept belong/no-longer belong to you, but I understand the sentiment and will bring it up to forum. With all due respect Meg, I have tried for YEARS to get the LM team to give me BACK the reins to what was MINE, and was stolen by SupremacyOps because he wanted to make a special thing for the high elves, and as we all know, he then proceeded to make it super OP and remove any of the negatives or anything of interest. Quite frankly, I understand that yet, the fi userbase is important and should be contacted - But at the same time, the Fi userbase, due to SupremacyOp's schemeing, IS ALL THE SAME PEOPLE AS IT ALWAYS HAS BEEN. It has always been high elves of haelun'or and it will CONTINUE to be high elves of haelun'or, and quite frankly, the magic was never meant to be high-elf exclusive. Yes it was invented by a high elven enclave, but having such a clique magic exist in this day and age of Lotc is unforgivable. Fi magic never should have become the disaster it became or have been allowed to continue to exist after my numerous pleas, EVERY time a re-write came up, for it to be given back to me. Now that the LM team is out of the hands of corrupt idiots, maybe y'all can make right on whats been a mess for years. But if you're not, I'd rather the magic be killed, or be completely re-written to be completely different from what I originally wrote and Supremacy stole.

here let me add some stuff 1) fi magic cant be healed the **** how would it even, ur stuck like that for life. the soul is used to tether into the void ascended dont got power over that 2) the pked char has to ACTUALLY BE VERY CLOSE to the other char for it to work, meaning like, literally YEARS of knowing each other 3) u cant use ghosts for it 4) the other soul isnt a ******* shade it wouldnt necc always be resenting the other soul, it depends on the nature of their relationship and how the fi mage was brought about; did they do it willingly or were they forced? 5) you CANT USE A PERSON'S SOUL FOR FI MAGIC IF YOU ONLY GOT TO KNOW THEM FOR THE PURPOSE OF USING THEM FOR FI MAGIC. the whole POINT of the soul sacrifice is you actually have to be CLOSE, MUTUALLY CLOSE, and you will not ever be truly mutually close to someone if you only got to know them for the purposes of sacrificing them for a magic =w= 6) no the "Student" doesnt kill the other person, the magic was written so that it would literally only work if you were close to the person. i can send you the original lore write about the high elven enclave who first developed and discovered the magic by isolating children for most of their lives and then introducing them to only one other child for the purposes of forcing a close emotional connection between the two. 7) the other soul cant hold a full conversation but due to the close connection between the two individuals before the horrible terrible no good incident, the still-alive person would probably constantly hallucinate and believe themselves able to still converse with their now-dead close friend/family member. 8) one of the main drawbacks to fi magic in addition to all the physical ailments was always always always meant to be INSANITY, which ofc supremacyPOOPS didnt like because "oh no hgh elves r graceful and beautiful and perfect we cant be insane" so he probably dropped it a long time ago, but it was ALWAYS supposed to be part of the magic 9) the ability to interfere with voidal vs divine magic was ALWAYS meant to be TWO SEPARATE powers, and in order to get a fi mage with BOTH abilities, you'd have to do two sacrifices which would make them even more insane and unstable as well as unhealthy. you're not supposed to be able to interfere with both voidal and deity magic on a single sacrifice. anyways that's my 2 cent tl;dr i hate what my magic has become please just kill it already LMs and let me re-write it. :/

*kicks door in* WHOSE TOUCHIN THIS THING I DONE WROTE AND THEN IT BECAME TERRIBLE?????????

First we need Creator confirmed canon, so that god can help us all should this get passed.

I thought ancient Elves were most similar to Wood Elves in appearance, being darker skinned and haired? I was under the impression part of the history was that the Wood Elves were least changed of all the Elven races, unlike the other two (THREE IF YOU COUNT SNELVES, SHOW SOME RESPECT) races which were basically mutated by different means.

Alright, just wow. Yes, this is a proposal. That is the entire point of my commenting on it. To justify why I do not think this proposal should be accepted. That is the point of posting proposals - So that the playerbase can look at them and we can give our commentary. If that's no longer the reason for open proposals, then LM should just lock all proposal threads, which would be a step in the wrong direction. You're ignoring any argument against this lore and taking every objection as personal. I'm not sure you understand the point of a "proposal" or "proposed" lore. You're taking my objections to you as ignorant and angry, when I'm just responding in kind. My initial post pretty much covered all points and was not rude in the least - I admit I ate your bait and got a bit nastier in my next reply, so I apologize for that. But then again, don't put the bait out if you don't want rats. Your counter-arguments have all been largely passive-aggressive on a level I wasn't expecting from you, so I think we've reached the end of whatever possible level of civil discourse was available. The one thing I'll firmly counter is your passive aggressive statement that "Mog has an understanding of old lore, based on old LT making mistakes." No, he doesn't. Mog has understanding of the old lore as it was written by the original writers, and as he had access to it as Lore Admin at the time. You have understanding of old lore after it was fucked with by a series of incompetent and belligerent individuals hellbent on twisting it to their whim, including and largely lead by SupremacyPoOps. That isn't your fault, but it's a fact you should be aware of. The LT that made mistakes are the ones who purposefully lost/wiped the old lore, which was written by Wyrd, Availer, Blawharag, a number of Aegis Orcs who are no longer with us due to having lives, etc. That is an infallible fact that can be proven and spoken to, and it adds nothing to your cause to protect/defend the actions of the likes of Supremacy and Juno, who demanded Aengudaemonic involvement in every scrap of lore ever existing. I feel I've made my point on this lore proposal and the issues with it, and hope in the future when you submit proposals that you realize they are open to feedback and critique. With any luck Mog will be able to make some progress on having the old lore restored ala the same method the Druids had their lore restored. Peace out and chill out, dude.

Yea, odd enough you never really got to answering the question. Most of the clans, to my knowledge, claim descent from one of the four original, or the descendants of those four original, even if you do not know that. You claim Mog has a misunderstanding of ancient lore, but you're wrong on that count - The person with the misunderstanding of ancient Orcish lore is you, and now you're trying to re-write it. Except ancient Orcish lore was already written a long time ago. If the LM team lost it like they did with the original Druid lore and a lot of other lore, (sometimes "conveniently" lost it because they didn't like it), well, Mog and others have copies they can provide. But rest assured, it WAS lore and it WAS accepted lore. Blawharag was on the original incarnation of the Lore team, and Mog was once Lore Admin. He's not pulling this out of his ass, so stop thinking he is. I was working on an entire event and storyline for the Orcs before I was sucked into shitty 5.0 build. You're not the only person who gives a damn about the Orcs, but what are we supposed to do? The Orcs turned into a society almost entirely based on raiding, slavery, sacrifices... The Orcs are capable of so much more, but that's what they turned into, and that's what killed them. There's no point in making an Orc map when the populace is so small. I don't mean to be cruel or negative, but it's the truth. You're going to be telling a story very few people care about, and everyone else will disregard it - That's the problem with these shitty racial-themed maps and all the racial-themed lore around them. Thats why I'm fighting it, and make sure you prove me wrong. Again - I and Mog are not the ones with a misunderstanding of old lore. If anything, Mog has a greater understanding of it than you - Again, if the LM team lost the old orc lore, that's not our fault. If they secretly retconned it without publication, not our fault. That's a failure on the LM team's end, and does not mean the lore is suddenly forgotten nor should it be unconsidered. Shamanism origins were originally wrote by Blawharag, I believe. See; retcons, unofficial retcons, losing of lore, purposeful disregarding of lore, etc. I gotta ask why anyone would get involved, but even if he or I or anyone who objects to this is not a current Orc PC, it doesn't mean we don't get an opinion, and it doesn't mean you have a right to disregard our argument. I'm not going to get into an argument about why some people may not want to be involved with Orc RP currently or for the past year or so. How was Krug abandoned. There's nothing in actual ancient lore about Krug being abandoned. ALL the brothers fought Iblees. There is no abandonment there. They all helped together. If you want to write in the Brothers abandoning Krug, that's stupid and there's no basis for it. How about you stop trying to retcon good old lore like Blawharags and start trying to retcon Hellfiazz's then? Read my last point about that - All souls can't go through the spirit realm if only certain souls can enter. "Pass by" doesn't mean go through something, it means to go past or around. I.E. All non-spirit realm souls would not enter it at all. It kind of is. Its not written in the lore to be racial specific, but it should be, because in practice it very much is race-specific and the whole lore of Spirits is aimed primarily at and for Orcs, and therefore all things related to them are. Originally in Blawharag's original lore about the Spirit Realm, it didn't function as a catch-all all-races place, it was only for orcs and honorary orcs to interact with, and the ancestral realm was only for orcs and honorary orcs, who at death would be risen into it by a shaman's hand. Important ones, yes. You're belittling the lore of those who came before you by acting like it doesn't matter. Why the **** would Krug challenge a mysterious disembodied voice? He'd be more likely to just ignore the stupid talking wind. So because of this they should be completely swept to the wayside? Newsflash: The entire Orcish race is, and has been, on it's way out. I can't tell what the general LM consensus is. If it's to "improve Roleplay by including current roleplay aspects", then it needs to be all around - Not just specific to specific races depending on who is writing the lore. Y'all need to get an actual consensus together and stick to it. Ones wrote by better lore writers than you. Did you even read my reply? If so, you didn't take it seriously - Instead you took it as an attack and got defensive, as expected. This was what I said: "He was tricked" is in reference to Horen. I then clarify; "as ALL The brothers except Krug were, and then when he realized it, he helped fight Iblees". That is in reference to Horen. Not Krug. So Again- what does Krug have to get vengeance for? Horen fought to repair his mistake. Then get the humans involved and stop trying to trample over their lore just because they killed your race. I've never read lore stating that Krug destroyed Horen's city. So Krug is now so weak that he challenges voices he hears on the wind and then makes friends with them, and then he is so weak that he gives into his bloodlust and kills his brother? That's not at all in Krug's character. There's nothing logical or consistent about the Spirit Realm or how it functions. If you want to start retconning old lore, how about you start there, especially if you dislike Apohet so much? Good on you, I've been doing it since it was suggested. So at least we have that in common.