Your View: War Claims And War Rules

[Katherine1 362]

I do not believe we need a warclaim team. Warring kingdoms in the medieval Europe did not have a war council to decide who got the **** kicked out of them. If a king offended another king, it was war. If someone wanted land they believed was theirs, it was war. Allow freedom of war and chances are common sense will kick in and people will stop being so damn greedy about land.

 

Looking at you Alras.

 

They had death and limited supplies to regulate the frequency of wars. We don't. We obviously need something that Medieval Europe didn't. I've made my suggestion of separate rules for in and out of war.

[AlmondTree 418]

I do not believe we need a warclaim team. Warring kingdoms in the medieval Europe did not have a war council to decide who got the **** kicked out of them. If a king offended another king, it was war. If someone wanted land they believed was theirs, it was war. Allow freedom of war and chances are common sense will kick in and people will stop being so damn greedy about land.

 

Looking at you Alras.

 

It was fair and sqaure as you had the same chance to get a pillar like they did.

The exact same chance. Had you guys spent more time trying to get one rather than trolling around the area you may well have had the area by now.

[monkeypoacher 8055]

Warclaim denial is absurd. Warclaims are almost invariably better than raids in terms of advancing the storyline and creating RP, but they get denied because people can't part with whatever patch of land they have built on.

 

 

They had death and limited supplies to regulate the frequency of wars. We don't. We obviously need something that Medieval Europe didn't. I've made my suggestion of separate rules for in and out of war.

We already have very realistic supplies (Someone has to find materials and labor to get proper gear, food, and ammuniton), and death has the consequence of making someone lose 50% of the mina on their person. 

[Lark 2227]

 

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It was fair and sqaure as you had the same chance to get a pillar like they did.

The exact same chance. Had you guys spent more time trying to get one rather than trolling around the area you may well have had the area by now.

 

 

You have land though. Its called the Valley of Alras. If I'm not mistaken all nations had their own little prebuilt spots yet here comes Alras turning into Rome. Conquering(Or rather, squatting on) everything around it. Now here comes a warclaim and Alras shuts the OOC Door saying Nuh uh, can't touch us! Alras provoked war, they hide from the war, they will be called out on their cowardice.

 

 

They had death and limited supplies to regulate the frequency of wars. We don't. We obviously need something that Medieval Europe didn't. I've made my suggestion of separate rules for in and out of war.

 

And we have lives and limited time to do the same. It all is in perspective and adaptation to the situation. Something many people in LotC lack the capability to do.

[AlmondTree 418]

Warclaim denial is absurd. Warclaims are almost invariably better than raids in terms of advancing the storyline and creating RP, but they get denied because people can't part with whatever patch of land they have built on.

And that's something "absurd"? That people that settles down wants their land? Truth be, a warclaim doesn't progress the actual storyline very much, it simply leaves a scar behind consisting of an upset playerbase, negative vibes and work for the staff. The RP gain it creates is small compared to the amount of stress it causes. 

[AlmondTree 418]

 

You have land though. Its called the Valley of Alras. If I'm not mistaken all nations had their own little prebuilt spots yet here comes Alras turning into Rome. Conquering(Or rather, squatting on) everything around it. Now here comes a warclaim and Alras shuts the OOC Door saying Nuh uh, can't touch us! Alras provoked war, they hide from the war, they will be called out on their cowardice.

 

 

 

And we have lives and limited time to do the same. It all is in perspective and adaptation to the situation. Something many people in LotC lack the capability to do.

 

 

1) I'm not part of their land

2) You know that it was a race, an OOC race to get the pillar. The pillar isn't an RP thing, it's an OOC thing. You are the guys that came and provoked to almost no end at one point mind you. I was watching the whole thing. At launch of 4.0 they bullrushed to the area and started to set-up. That's when you folks came wafting in with an un-legit pillar just to troll. Who actually deserves the land? The ones working to get it or the ones being awfully vocal and blatantly rude to get it? Love&Ice-cream bro.

[monkeypoacher 8055]

And that's something "absurd"? That people that settles down wants their land? Truth be, a warclaim doesn't progress the actual storyline very much, it simply leaves a scar behind consisting of an upset playerbase, negative vibes and work for the staff. The RP gain it creates is small compared to the amount of stress it causes. 

 

I am saying they absolutely cannot bear parting with it, OOCly rather than ICly. So much so that they would deny a warclaim simply so they would keep the land even if it means severely pissing off an entire army of players.

 

This is the absurdity, that we simply allow this bullshit drama to happen over someone staking a claim to a patch of land that they can't even defend.

 

Constant raiding only causes considerably more of this drama: it's far, far worse for the community. Just look at the fringe and how well that turned out.

[AlmondTree 418]

I am saying they absolutely cannot bear parting with it, OOCly rather than ICly. So much so that they would deny a warclaim simply so they would keep the land even if it means severely pissing off an entire army of players.

 

This is the absurdity, that we simply allow this bullshit drama to happen over someone staking a claim to a patch of land that they can't even defend.

 

Sorry but the "Bullshit drama" is caused by people who used force to get what they want, having the numbers by default. Greedy people.

[Neri 3590]

Alras didn't get prebuilt land. They just had a spot they knew they desired beforehand. Alras had no help from the staff team. They had their own development server for ideas.

 

Also Oren has their own land, you could equally call Oren 'Rome' since they are warclaiming on Day 2 of the new map.

 

This is also very offtopic. If you're going to use scenarios to prove/help your argument, then try to use non-specific examples.

[calculusdesola 1658]

Alras didn't get prebuilt land. They just had a spot they knew they desired beforehand. Alras had no help from the staff team. They had their own development server for ideas.

 

Also Oren has their own land, you could equally call Oren 'Rome' since they are warclaiming on Day 2 of the new map.

 

This is also very offtopic. If you're going to use scenarios to prove/help your argument, then try to use non-specific examples.

 

"They" meaning vassals of Oren, all the hundreds of them.  One group of vassals does not constitute the whole of Oren.  I expect it to be pretty easy for you to understand that.

 

Expansionism is expansionism - not trolling, not warmongering, not shattering RP, but conquest.  If you believe "military RP" is a bunch of kids running around PvP happy then you're obviously the kind of guy who constantly made a whine about this idea that the White Roses were nazis because we had a checkpoint system in our lands.  It was all purely done in RP, too - not OOC fueled in the slightest.  Be logical and reasonable here.  Why should we tolerate your peaceful, magic, fairy tale Malinoresque RP, when you do not tolerate our militant RP, and in fact insult us further by calling us all nazis?

 

There really should be no possible legal defense ICly or OOCly for groups who provoke attacks and then cutely deny a war claim in response; all the while adding flavor to wars and keeping them done with roleplay purpose - a cassus belli system can provide this, in my opinion.

[Neri 3590]

Was all of that aimed at me?

 

But hey, I agree with your last paragraph. It just doesn't apply to the Alras scenario.

[Supremacy 3361]

Woah there, friends.

 

[Jistuma 1996]

Get wars to be expensive for the attacking side. This means resources and minas. Wars should be expensive to make. Travels, food, caravans, servants, arms and weapons, payment for troops, death of troops, engineers, and so on. Those are the things that stop random wars, and death of people I guess. Since death has no meaning in LOTC, attackers need to lose something, because the defenders never win anything, they only survive.

 

Stop world wars, no "Dwarves and allies vs Elves and allies." That's stupid, the attackers are the attackers, not their allies. The defenders are the defenders, not their allies. If the Decterum was insulted by the Tentons, they won't bring the whole of Oren to fight, nor will the Tentons bring the whole of the dwarves to fight. One day alts are being fixed with the persona plugin, so that helps a lot.

 

Reasons for war people! Insults ARE NOT A REASON FOR WAR! Even if the king insults another king, what happens is that the other king insults back. You don't go around killing a lot of people because a few peasants called the queen a *****. What could be a reason for war is the complete denial of aprehending and punishing those that insulted nobility, or not offering gifts of compensation. And even if those things don't happen, it only brings dislike between two parties, NOT WAR. It brings laws such as no one of the Teutons being allowed in the kingdom of Alras, because the military of the Teutons started insulting them and taunting them in negociations or travels, and the leaders did nothing for it. Real reasons for war involve years of problems with another nation/group, recovery of something that can only be recovered through invasion (meaning diplomacy failed), and great economical/land gains IF the loses that I spoke above are far lower.

 

STOP raiding for no reason other than to kill people. Raids CAN NOT be taken seriously for reasons of war if random people from a nation or town are raiding just to kill. Start adding more restrictions to raids, except to those done by nations, kingdoms or towns. These raids are those that the military leader, or town leader ORDER the raid for certain reasons. Random Raids have to stop, no more reasons of disliking a group, herecy, person of the town being wanted, wanting someone killed. Just a clarification, these raids are armored people going and attacking a settlement, not assassination attemps on one specific person, robery attempts where the robbers only want to steal and not kill, cons, gangs targeting individual or unknown people in a town, and so on. Just people with armor arriving at a town with intent of killing. Of course other stuff made to mask and kill everyone would be a raid as well. Example, robery where it's clear they just want to kill people, or starting pvp and killing every attacker when they could just leave them knocked out, or even used them to gather stuff to continue the robery.

 

I had more to write but I need to leave.

 

[edit]

Knew I had something important to add.

 

If the attacking side has to cross other nations, towns, lands not of their own, then they can not attack unless granted permission from the land owners. THIS is what alliences are for, military passage.

[Wavejammers 328]

-snip-

 

The thing is, while you might see it as military roleplay, or shaping the environment, or "expansionism" Others will see it as pixel hungry edgy OOC bullying. And no matter how convinces you are that you're doing this for the good of the server, there will always be someone on the other end who perceive it as all the negatives listed above.

 

In the other end, is really something that frequent raiders/soilders should really consider before raiding / applying for warclaim.

 

Warclaims are not a means of pure evil, but when a steamrolling powerhouse with nothing to lose goes up against someone who has everything to lose, there is bound to be a greater loss than just pixels.

[Samson Option 9652]

I don't think the warclaim team will work out. Last time we had a Admin who used to system to his favor, and I'm pretty sure this will continue. Just moi deux cent.

This is what happens when someone not involved tries to make an accusatory statement. Ironically enough, I brought the Warclaim Team to reject the Teutonic Order's conduct against the Dwarves. Weird, I thought Mogroka would want one of his vassals to win!

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It was fair and sqaure as you had the same chance to get a pillar like they did.

The exact same chance. Had you guys spent more time trying to get one rather than trolling around the area you may well have had the area by now.

Last I checked and heard in Alras TS when I got back from grave shift, some/many of the Alrasians pulled an all-nighter for their town pillar. Let us be frank, I do hope the Carrion can get their healthy 8 hour sleep.