Judas 30 Share Posted November 22, 2014 People don't need the science police, they only need google the information and reword it in order to to pass through your system. And a lot of the time people won't even bother with that, they'll just have the thing that's been given a green light to exist in roleplay. Anyway regardless of the feasibility of technological advancement in LoTC, the GMs and Admins have on several occasions disallowed such a thing because technological advancement isn't in the spirit of LoTC. People will Science behind your back anyway in places that you wouldn't go, mainly because their is a minority out there who doesn't like the click-fest presented by players. Which includes the Undead. So you're ignoring the fact that it's already done in an un-regulated fashion. There is a major undercurrent of people who don't care to have their work recognized. Because pushing an idea on this server is a losing scenario even for the mightiest of hearts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellfiazz 878 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Because you're overestimating the players' desire to comply with regulations and to go through the scientific process. If people want an advantage they'll just take it; as can be shown with the guns issue in Anthos, with the bunker/trench war in Anthos, with the boat-planes in the Fringe, with the button-spam that may still go on, with several people becoming Undead cultists so they can raid. Whilst your idealism is admirable it is not practical. Not to mention that the people on this server will most definitely not share your enthusiasm for science and technology. Even if you can overcome the problems I've already stated, people come to LoTC for fantastical roleplay; not for people who like science OOCly to get roleplay advantages. In principle, allowing the progression of technology without effective regulation won't work, making effective regulation will be very, very difficult, and having such regulation will alienate those who don't want to take science lessons for fun. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmbryoGod 816 Author Share Posted November 22, 2014 Because you're overestimating the players' desire to comply with regulations and to go through the scientific process. If people want an advantage they'll just take it; as can be shown with the guns issue in Anthos, with the bunker/trench war in Anthos, with the boat-planes in the Fringe, with the button-spam that may still go on, with several people becoming Undead cultists so they can raid. Whilst your idealism is admirable it is not practical. Not to mention that the people on this server will most definitely not share your enthusiasm for science and technology. Even if you can overcome the problems I've already stated, people come to LoTC for fantastical roleplay; not for people who like science OOCly to get roleplay advantages. In principle, allowing the progression of technology without effective regulation won't work, making effective regulation will be very, very difficult, and having such regulation will alienate those who don't want to take science lessons for fun. To the first part: guns wouldn't be allowed, and aeronautics most definitely wouldn't be allowed To the second part: wasn't the same fierce criticism met with the de-regulation of magic? And the last part about alienating those who don't want to "take science lessons for fun" is hypocritical. You said so yourself, magic requires extreme dedication as well. This doesn't alienate people, it just makes a guideline for how people that wish to RP this way should RP in said way. Also science doesn't give any specific person RP advantages either, the idea of science is to bring more rp to everyone. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judas 30 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Because you're overestimating the players' desire to comply with regulations and to go through the scientific process. If people want an advantage they'll just take it; as can be shown with the guns issue in Anthos, with the bunker/trench war in Anthos, with the boat-planes in the Fringe, with the button-spam that may still go on, with several people becoming Undead cultists so they can raid. Whilst your idealism is admirable it is not practical. Not to mention that the people on this server will most definitely not share your enthusiasm for science and technology. Even if you can overcome the problems I've already stated, people come to LoTC for fantastical roleplay; not for people who like science OOCly to get roleplay advantages. In principle, allowing the progression of technology without effective regulation won't work, making effective regulation will be very, very difficult, and having such regulation will alienate those who don't want to take science lessons for fun. You're looking at it negatively, there are people on this server who don't want a role-play advantage, some people just want to learn and have fun. Secondly, you're not taking into consideration how fast an abuse would be called out. People communicate you know? Thirdly, you may not know this but there is a secret society of people on this server who do power-game with one another. Just not in front of you. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmbryoGod 816 Author Share Posted November 22, 2014 Not to mention the fact that they're using an argument based on the idea of a lack of regulation. They're using examples that would be immediately weeded out with regulation Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellfiazz 878 Share Posted November 22, 2014 It's fun to learn magic, because your character actively develops magically along the process, and your training is practical, you're actively using magic. Yes, a good mage will be dedicated, but dedication is rewarded constantly. There is very little theory to learn. However, science is different. I don't know about you, but I enjoy my science lessons at college, and people who enjoy science in real life are a tiny minority. Even I don't want to learn the physics of a steam engine, because that **** is really really boring. The steam engine was invented IRL for one of two reasons: to help mankind, and/or for personal benefit. There is no reward of such magnitude on a roleplay server. Roleplay is for fun and escapism, and having to go through a peer review process, having to learn mathematics and engineering and complex theorems, is not fun for the overwhelming, vast majority of people. And believe me, people will find ways to turn seemingly inadvantageous technology and mechanics into advantages. As was the case with boat-planes. People have a great deal of tenacity when it comes to finding advantages on this server. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmbryoGod 816 Author Share Posted November 22, 2014 It's fun to learn magic, because your character actively develops magically along the process, and your training is practical, you're actively using magic. Yes, a good mage will be dedicated, but dedication is rewarded constantly. There is very little theory to learn. However, science is different. I don't know about you, but I enjoy my science lessons at college, and people who enjoy science in real life are a tiny minority. Even I don't want to learn the physics of a steam engine, because that **** is really really boring. The steam engine was invented IRL for one of two reasons: to help mankind, and/or for personal benefit. There is no reward of such magnitude on a roleplay server. Roleplay is for fun and escapism, and having to go through a peer review process, having to learn mathematics and engineering and complex theorems, is not fun for the overwhelming, vast majority of people. And believe me, people will find ways to turn seemingly inadvantageous technology and mechanics into advantages. As was the case with boat-planes. People have a great deal of tenacity when it comes to finding advantages on this server. So you're basic your disapproval of this because you find it boring? Also if you're doing magic right there's loads of theory to learn, and as with science there is an immediate practicality in everything. And we're not saying that technology isn't advantageous, we're saying it is utilized by everyone or a large amount of people. Also please stop using "boat-plane" or "gun" as an example, we've already vigorously told you that wouldn't be allowed. Also maybe to some people learning mathematics and engineering is fun. You're pretty much stating irrelevant (or already answered) arguments at this point 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judas 30 Share Posted November 22, 2014 It's fun to learn magic, because your character actively develops magically along the process, and your training is practical, you're actively using magic. Yes, a good mage will be dedicated, but dedication is rewarded constantly. There is very little theory to learn. However, science is different. I don't know about you, but I enjoy my science lessons at college, and people who enjoy science in real life are a tiny minority. Even I don't want to learn the physics of a steam engine, because that **** is really really boring. The steam engine was invented IRL for one of two reasons: to help mankind, and/or for personal benefit. There is no reward of such magnitude on a roleplay server. Roleplay is for fun and escapism, and having to go through a peer review process, having to learn mathematics and engineering and complex theorems, is not fun for the overwhelming, vast majority of people. And believe me, people will find ways to turn seemingly in-advantageous technology and mechanics into advantages. As was the case with boat-planes. People have a great deal of tenacity when it comes to finding advantages on this server. And you think that it wouldn't be fun to learn Science? Did you watch Mr. Wizard, Bill Nye, The Discovery Channel [Doitagainnow]? Science is f*$%ing explosive fun. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellfiazz 878 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Well if you looked at both my 2nd and last point, combined they say that most people don't want to do this science business, but those that do will be able to have an advantage because if they want it they will make it so. And if they don't, maybe the clique they're in will, showing that someone will be able to gain an advantage because they or one of their friends isn't bored by having to roleplay out discovery and invention that they already know how to do. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmbryoGod 816 Author Share Posted November 22, 2014 Well if you looked at both my 2nd and last point, combined they say that most people don't want to do this science business, but those that do will be able to have an advantage because if they want it they will make it so. And if they don't, maybe the clique they're in will, showing that someone will be able to gain an advantage because they or one of their friends isn't bored by having to roleplay out discovery and invention that they already know how to do. That's in everything though, magic, smithing, swordfighting, all of it. Gaining advantages is a normal thing in LotC, and just because you don't want to do "this science business" doesn't mean no one else wants to, and it certainly doesn't mean that we just want this implemented so that we may have an advantage. We all have to start out from square one like everyone else in the server. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judas 30 Share Posted November 22, 2014 Well if you looked at both my 2nd and last point, combined they say that most people don't want to do this science business, but those that do will be able to have an advantage because if they want it they will make it so. And if they don't, maybe the clique they're in will, showing that someone will be able to gain an advantage because they or one of their friends isn't bored by having to roleplay out discovery and invention that they already know how to do. Identifying a group as a clique is another negative terminology, please stop.. Groups have a right to defend what they practice, hopefully out of others eyes. But even if this lore proposal fails, there will come a time when those of us who feel the same about this idea started here, will seek one another out. Where these people will likely commit to Science largely ignored or unheard of in the Wilds. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellfiazz 878 Share Posted November 22, 2014 I realise that you probably aren't out for an advantage, what I'm saying is others will be. And the difference between what you described and science is that those things don't require prerequisite interest or knowledge, anyone can enjoy Magic or smithing or swordplay in roleplay. You don't need to be rather intelligent to do those things and you certainly don't need an OOC interest in them, but you do in science. It could lead to a form of elitism, which is a large part of why Magic was made universal for the most part. And I wasn't referring to the people who would be in this science group as a clique, I meant others that they might already be a part of. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmbryoGod 816 Author Share Posted November 22, 2014 I realise that you probably aren't out for an advantage, what I'm saying is others will be. And the difference between what you described and science is that those things don't require prerequisite interest or knowledge, anyone can enjoy Magic or smithing or swordplay in roleplay. You don't need to be rather intelligent to do those things and you certainly don't need an OOC interest in them, but you do in science. It could lead to a form of elitism, which is a large part of why Magic was made universal for the most part. And I wasn't referring to the people who would be in this science group as a clique, I meant others that they might already be a part of. Anyone is open to learn about science at any time, for instance I just went to the library and got three books on physics. It's unimportant to have a prerequisite knowledge of science to roleplay here, most science will have to be adjusted anyway because we have to fit mech-standard, and you can always learn from others, same as magic and swordplay. Plus no one is being forced to be a scientist in rp, it's a choice. And regardless, as my good friend Questions just said, science will continue regardless of whether or not someone likes it or has a problem with it, and will be rp'ed in the wilds without your knowledge. I feel it would be much better for people to be accustomed to the facet of science in LotC instead of halting all scientific progress altogether because they're not knowledgeable on the subject in question. By not having science, you're breeding ignorance of other roleplay ideas. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellfiazz 878 Share Posted November 22, 2014 There's nothing wrong with science and tinkering RP, but technological advancements, like said before, don't really fit the themes of LoTC. I recognise its a choice to RP science, but any advancements in technology change a great deal of people's RP, and since it would be in the hands of a few players who enjoy science, that could create an environment of scientific-based elitism where the people who are friends with the inventors get all the stuff, and the people they don't like OOCly are deprived. This happened before when Magic was controlled by a group. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmbryoGod 816 Author Share Posted November 22, 2014 There's nothing wrong with science and tinkering RP, but technological advancements, like said before, don't really fit the themes of LoTC. I recognise its a choice to RP science, but any advancements in technology change a great deal of people's RP, and since it would be in the hands of a few players who enjoy science, that could create an environment of scientific-based elitism where the people who are friends with the inventors get all the stuff, and the people they don't like OOCly are deprived. This happened before when Magic was controlled by a group. The only reason that happened with magic was because magic was inherently so powerful and couldn't be profiteered off of. Controlled (notice the word CONTROLLED) technological advancement adds a competitive economy as well as, well, scientific advancement. Technology can't ever truly be used in an elitist form, especially when everyone is open to the ability to technologically innovate something. I understand your concern but it will not happen, it simply can't. Once someone figures out how to make something they know how to make it, plain and simple. They can then spread their knowledge. Magic is a combat-oriented, system of power. Science by nature is designed to be shared 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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