Your View: Let's Talk Magic

[501warhead 1796]

So let's preface this. This is an open discussion thread for talk of Magic roleplay. This is designed to address a problem within it and this is not a thread to bash upon magic users or magic roleplay in General. If you don't like dealing with magic users this is not the thread to be posting in and toxic or inflammatory comments on this thread will, you have been warned, earn you a warning point for each comment. Post at your own risk.

 

 

Now, heavy handed policies aside; We want to hear your comments.

 

Is their an issue with our current Magic system?

 

If so, What is it? Why is it a problem? How can we, as the staff team, work to fix it?

 

If not - Why? Why do you believe the system is currently fine?

 

This is intended to be a friendly topic as it says on the tin and we really want to hear your opinion on it. Don't bash other's opinions and also keep in mind that comments restating another player's opinion will be hidden - simply use the up arrow on the previous player's comment.

 

There is no poll because we wish to hear opinions not numbers.

[Salvo 1852]

Yes, there is a big problem. Two, I might say.

 

The first, and biggest, is Monk Magic. People who received crippling injured, lost limbs, became blind etc. can just, right now, go "MONKZ HURR DURR" and have everything fixed straight away. This angers me so much I cannot even describe.

 

An other problem is how easy becoming proficient in Voidal Magic is. You can make powerful mages straight away, and most of the people that do this tend to RP horribly / Powergame.

 

No idea how this could be fixed.

[mitto 2312]

It's upsetting to see magic get PG'ed a lot. It gives good magic users a bad name.

 

Edit: I am against the idea of the MA's coming back although it would be nice; if magic was a bit more difficult to come by. Which should stop people from powergaming.

 

Maybe having something that involves unlocking on the server, in Rp, not on the forums writing out an essay. I believe there are better ways to restrict magic, although I am too dumb to think of any.

[Backup Lago 320]

On MAs, before they rear their ugly head.

 

We established the hard way MAs don't work. Empirically. We tried it, and it worked so badly that we axed them for good.

 

They serve no purpose beyond granting "exclusivity", create or severely inflame character overattachment, have an excessive adminstrative workload for their practically zero benefit, cause the harassment of teachers and then cause the teachers to burn out and mock anyone who asks them for magic (I remember one utterly disgusting thread in which a new player asked IC about magic training and magic teacher characters piled in en masse to mock and belittle him). It locks magic into little OOC teaching cliques too. As for the Tiering, like any levelling system, it exists on a clock until such a time as everyone starts hitting T5.

We need no character apps but the server app. They simply don't work, people.

 

What we need is a working plugin.

[Salvo 1852]

I am not suggesting MAs, no. They would never work. Magic /has/ to be regulated, though. Unfortunatly, it does.

[Wendigo 786]

I believe you have already heard my opinion on the magic system. If not it can be found here...https://www.lordofthecraft.net/topic/123075-bring-back-magic-apps-a-new-system/ 

 

In my opinion the system needs a revamp, it may not have to be the re implementation of magic apps or a new version of it, but '5 minute mages' have become a nuisance and the amount of horrible rp associated with it have become an issue... not to sure how this can be fixed. But in my opinion magic needs to be better regulated then it is now.

 

As far as I know in order to learn magic through the plugin they've been working on for years you'll either need to spend time meditating in certain key areas around the world or learn it from a teacher. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[mitto 2312]

I am not suggesting MAs, no. They would never work. Magic /has/ to be regulated, though. Unfortunatly, it does.

 

Exactly, MA's we're annoying for most. Rather offsetting too, when I first joined I didn't even want to touch magic for that reason. This is an RP server, not real life, you shouldn't feel like you don't want to do something you enjoy. There should be a more user friendly way to teach people who aren't experienced in magic how to do it.

 

Without some regulation, as we've been magic is abused and it will often end in PVP default and a salty PR going up.

[Jistuma 1996]

Monk magic problem: I'm afraid this probably will not change, monk magic is an OOC help to players when huge changes to a character are forced on them. You can call it bad roleplay or not going with the flow, but roleplaying someone who is blind/deaf/cripled is for most players simply not that fun.

 

Magic plugin: I do not believe this will fix anything about the magic on the server. It will just remove even more magic roleplay to mechanics.

 

MAs: Magic Applications as they were before will of course not return, yet their removal was one of the fundamental reasons for the magic problems we have now. Remember, extremes are bad, but people keep going from one extreme to the other, instead of trying to find a middle ground.

 

Locking all magics: I believe this to be the best way to try and do some fixing (it can never return to the way it was before). The problem on locking all magics (which are pretty much just arcane magics) is how. Everyone is a master mage, so how will it be locked?

[GodEmperorFlam 3447]

Monk magic problem: I'm afraid this probably will not change, monk magic is an OOC help to players when huge changes to a character are forced on them. You can call it bad roleplay or not going with the flow, but roleplaying someone who is blind/deaf/cripled is for most players simply not that fun.

 

Magic plugin: I do not believe this will fix anything about the magic on the server. It will just remove even more magic roleplay to mechanics.

 

MAs: Magic Applications as they were before will of course not return, yet their removal was one of the fundamental reasons for the magic problems we have now. Remember, extremes are bad, but people keep going from one extreme to the other, instead of trying to find a middle ground.

 

Locking all magics: I believe this to be the best way to try and do some fixing (it can never return to the way it was before). The problem on locking all magics (which are pretty much just arcane magics) is how. Everyone is a master mage, so how will it be locked?

 

I agree with all points Jistuma has made, especially for the monk magic thing.

 

As for the locking all magic portion, we need to come up with some way to relock the voidal magic and regulate it from thereon. Unlocking it was a huge mistake and let people run rampant.

[A Spooky Witch 156]

I believe the regulation system that Wendigo proposed nearly aeons ago would be the best course of option and it seems the only reasonable course at that.

 

Regardless, people have been calling out for regulation for months, it is time something was done. 

[monkeypoacher 8055]

Void magic is powergamed to all high heavens. Nobody RPs it's downsides they just RP being able to shoot fire or lightning or something. Nobody RPs mana either.

 

I was going to write more but I think that's all that has to be said.

[Backup Lago 320]

I believe you have already heard my opinion on the magic system. If not it can be found here...https://www.lordofthecraft.net/topic/123075-bring-back-magic-apps-a-new-system/ 

 

In my opinion the system needs a revamp, it may not have to be the re implementation of magic apps or a new version of it, but '5 minute mages' have become a nuisance and the amount of horrible rp associated with it have become an issue... not to sure how this can be fixed. But in my opinion magic needs to be better regulated then it is now.

 

As far as I know in order to learn magic through the plugin they've been working on for years you'll either need to spend time meditating in certain key areas around the world or learn it from a teacher. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Based on the tech leaving post and the post from Kowa and Reag after the tech leaving post it sounds like Telanir's magic plugin died when Tel left.

[Cyndikate 2303]

The best way to regulate magic roleplay is locking all the subtypes. All players must have a teacher to teach them how the system works. Self teaching is too difficult to regulate so it should not count as teaching. Players are expected to carry evidence that they are being taught on the day they're being taught in the event that a ban report is placed on them.

The issue with magic right now is the five minute mages just running around powergaming the magic subtype they don't understand and could have if they have been properly taught in Roleplay. They are contributing to the poor quality of magic roleplay and giving good role players an unnecessary stigma and generalization that they're all Powergamers. They're effectively a slap to the face of what could be years of character development of other players, invalidates progression and in which there is no way to gauge it. If anyone can create a character and become what you've put so much time into yours to achieve, what does that make you?

I'd suggest teaching applications so teaching is only reserved for players who have demonstrated that they know how the magic works and can pass on good role playing habits to other players. Teachers will have the option of keeping their applications private so they don't have to worry about being harassed. Teachers are expected to teach their students good values IC and OOC because if there's a consistent influx of powergamers (it would take a lot of players in a short time)under the same teacher, then the teacher would get penalized.

Blacklisting needs to be removed as it is a counterproductive measure to an already complicated system such as magic. No one knows how to not powergame their magic. No one knows the red lines. Punishing players for their own ignorance, especially if such player is new and has never been on the forums is just ridiculous.

Comparing magic to something that's mundane such as swordsmanship, archery and cooking is just nothing short of ignorant. The system is far too complex than that of just swinging a sword.

I'd rather new players get shielded from factors they don't understand than them getting yelled at and bullied for performing magic incorrectly. We want to encourage them to roleplay for the things they want.

[Birdwhisperer 1174]

It's too easy to obtain. Aside from the guild locked magic you don't have to work for anything, which destroys any kind of motivation to RP learning and removes any satisfaction when you've succeeded. And because it's so easy for any to get, it's easy for them to powergame or just not understand how the magic works.

 

I personally think the current locked magics are fine, and have fun learning and RPing them. The problem comes in with the unlocked Arcane magic. (Not saying anyone who RPs these are problematic, many arcane mages are fine.) They're too easy to get and too hard to regulate. Considering how widespread they are already I don't know if a magic app or guild locking would even be feasible, but requiring that you have a teacher and learn in RP would be a start. Edit: I like the idea of a teacher application, that might work without being as restrictive as a magic app.

[Lima 774]

First: Nerf electrical evocation so that every person does not opt to use it instantly and demand you die on the spot in 1 hit 1 kill heat seeking super bolts.

Second. Mith was right when he said everyone roleplays being a super dooper magic man, Lago too. Everyone eventually hits Tier 5, so there should be a limit placed on how powerful each mage can get in how many arts.

Lack of variety and co-operation is a thing, right now everyone roleplays a cure-all character.

Action does need to be taken.