Your View; War Rules! [ Inc. Raid Rules ]

[Sky 0]

Greetings, 

 

I've noticed firestar's thread and believe that it is a well written insight. ( https://www.lordofthecraft.net/topic/124152-feedback-todays-battle-and-the-flaw-in-the-warclaim-system/ read it now if you haven't and then return!).

 

​Admittedly player's feel that their feedback isn't read and acknowledged, to this I personally wish to change but until that is I wish to turn this into a topic point (like it's been in the past!) and see the differing opinions. 

 

It has been over two weeks since the war rules implementation and I would like to see feedback on such, thus I am making this! But remember, I am asking for your feedback and as such, the thread is for you to throw your feedback down as well as read others. Please do not argue your point to another player, as in the end we all have different experiences regarding it and as such, differing opinions.

 

Thanks.

[hellfiazz 879]

The inability to forced conquest non-capitals is quite frustrating. It only serves to prolong wars and therefore leads to greater OOC disdain and frustration on both sides. A casus belli system for conquests would serve to protect people who keep themselves to themselves.

[_Stigwig 1510]

I like the new rules except for non-consensual conquest. Obviously to ensure all are happy there should be limits on forced conquest, but when we're speaking, as firestar was, on far flung settlements of a nation - surely they should be allowed to be forced with a proper claim and warclaim?

[Stevie 1598]

maybe GMs should also start enforcing the treasury system that is part of the rules and the warfront too

 

 

the reason the War Rules are looking so azz rn is because noone is enforcing them.

 

I do still agree with the forced conquest if it's not a capital. It's something we attempted to get passed during the initial creation of the War Rules, but was met with a very staunch resistance. Hopefully, with the thread Fire made, it will be finally implemented and the prolonged wars can be drawn down by a few weeks.

 

 

 

Aislin for GM vvv

[Aislin 4354]

When we wanted to abolish VAs, many said it would result in too many villains and abuse of villainy. There are like no villains in the traditional sense anymore.

 

When we wanted PvP default, many said it would be the death of RP. Even PvP defaulters generally start with an RP fight unless it's a big crowd.

 

When we wanted to abolish MAs, many said it would result in too many OP mages with no moderation. I see less mages and those that do RP it are generally pretty sensible.

 

Now we want forced conquest and many say it will result in trolls warclaiming everything left and right until only PvP OREN trolls remain. It's not going to happen, it's a sensationalist doomsday prophesy, and we've empirically demonstrated that all those sensationalist nay-sayers in the past have been wrong every single time.

 

Give us forced conquest (with an appropriate casus belli system).

[IrishPerson 693]

Longer wars = more annoyed people on both sides = more hate towards each other.

 

Simple.

[Jachnun 566]

I see no issue other than a very futile resistance expressed by the same people who always resist such things like Aislinn said it worked fine before it can still do the same nothing will happen. 

[Cyndikate 2303]

How about stop changing the war rules every few weeks? 

 

• Raise the raider number limit from 4 to 8 on peaceful settlements. 4 is far too small to hold their own in a town. 8 is reasonable.
• Keep the raid cooldown to 48hrs.
• Keep consenual conquests - Forcing things down a player's throat never worked well the past 3 years we had it and it's not going to work now. This is just going to lead to destroying roleplay, and pissed off players kicking and screaming, two factions OOCly hating each other, and one group leaving the server. Forced conquest is only catering to one group of players who are only interested in themselves and not the players who are not interested in war and nation politics roleplay. Plus there's nothing keeping trolls from warclaiming your settlement for shits and giggles.

[DrakeHaze. 2524]

That snowball fight just shows me that the particular nation in question clearly realizes it will not win the war and is using the War Rules to their advantage to keep as much land as they can, but not even rply hold nor have the playerbase to hold for that matter, simply to be able to raise their head and go "VICTORY". Hiebenhall was supposed to be very important to the dwarves and was argued about often. A day or two ago they didn't have the 5 people needed to login to their personas to keep the region. There were 35 or so people with build perms and I'd imagine at least 10 of those were citizens of the place.

Players don't know when they've lost because they cannot accept losing.

Dragging out a war that you have a -100% warscore in isn't a strategy that will win you the war. There is no late game, you are not vayne. The problem itself doesn't stem from conquest not being able to be forced, its the players behind the screen. However, the only way to fix that problem is to enforce RP consequences by not restricting IC actions such as Wars and Conquest.

Players demonize themselves and play the victim card when arguing about forced conquest because they think they are to be targeted.

Nations aren't going to put up a warclaim on a tavern. Why would they? Why would they waste their expenses, time and effort to siege a tavern on the road. They won't, but people think they will. Only a small amount of players that hate the people running taverns would post a warclaim and demand a forced conquest. If people don't have legitimate claims to press a conquest then they shouldn't be able to do it, if that were the case then the players scared their taverns will be attacked will be at ease knowing the big bad wolf won't blow their house down.

Oh also add grapple hook back to fishing or remove the profession entirely pmsl 6 months wasted.

[Salvo 1852]

Forced conquest.

Forced conquest.

Forced conquest.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...

Forced conquest.

[CosmicWhaleShark 2488]

I've seen nothing but abuse from the consensual conquest/pillage war rules. It makes people careless, inconsiderate, and it breeds an unnecessary amount of resentment. Enabling people to protect themselves OOCly needs to be moderated as well, and I think the scales have shifted too far in that sense of favor.

 

To reinforce this point, I'm going to use an example. I'm going to be as objective as possible with this, so, please, don't consider this as aggressive or whatever else.

 

During the bronze uprising I was in communication with the opposing side, things were going relatively smoothly. The other side voiced their concerns and, initially, I reassured them that we'd try to soften the blow. Because of the circumstances surrounding the RP, peacefully controlling 3/4s of the city already prior to the warclaim, our side consulted Kai while he was still an admin and one of the creators of the war rules. To which his response was -

 

 

 

 

After showing this to the opposing side they insisted that we still needed to warclaim them. The individual in this specific case was a GM, so while I did protest, in the end we just went with a warclaim. It's worth noting at the time the High Elves effectively dissolved their military and didn't have an official, organized force at the time. They didn't RPly have anything to really face off against the opposing forces so this was essentially blatant OOC stalling. RPly we would have been simply slaughtering civilians, so, a slaughter claim, not a war claim. In this time of OOCly organizing the High Elves blew up their library, ran off somehow with all their books, all their belongings, fled the city in mass exodus. Not a single one of them was present for the warclaim they demanded.

 

Since then there have been several other examples of abuse, most recently with the Dwarves, but this is the one I was directly involved in, so I feel more confident with this than using other examples.

 

This system, frankly, is utterly ****. Forced conquest needs to become a part of the equation to avoid this fuckery in the future. There also needs to be rules about alterations to the region of interest as well since normally it takes, what, a year RPly to set up for a weekend battle? Having a group of civilians move all their worldly possessions seems a bit less efficient than a marching, disciplined army on their way to mess stuff up. Moving your stuff off site needs to be stopped, that's the only thing people seem to be concerned about and it really, really ruins some of the RP since it's really the only reason for some warclaims being set up - to have that time to move - and you end up getting an apathetic opposing force to contend with that are totally cool now that anything of concern to them is out of harm's way.

 

Warclaims need to stop being abused as a buffer time to move all your loot. They need to stop being used to protect your region because it is an "RP hub".

[ski_king3 0]

Forced conquests have always resulted in problems and will result in problems in the future if they're re-implemented. There are better ways to solve this shittiness of the current war. I'll wait for Lago to post because he's more eloquent, but there really isn't any valid justification for forced conquest that is more compelling than the empirical evidence of problems that was their past implementation.

[Cyndikate 2303]

I'll save him the trouble.

If the group you're warring with is so OOCly uncooperative that they slam the pillage button and never turn up imagine how nasty things would get once you start bringing forced conquest in. Anthos redux.

 

The fact of the matter is you can't war with an OOC enemy. How do you fix that? Stop being an OOC enemy. Defactionalise OOC and work together with the other side to set wars up and you'll get your dynamic war. Fashion the rules into a hammer with which to impose your will and the other group will do the same.

 

If a group will use the rules to block you in defiance of IC sense then chances are forced wars are going to end very badly, people will get stressed out from all the OOC **** and nobody will enjoy themselves. It might not be fun being blocked but it's far less nasty than what happened to the White Rose a couple of years back.

[Raomir 1855]

If there is an actual reason for the Conquest, then let it happen. The GM's can decide if there is a reson.

If it is just a Conquest for shits and giggles, the GM's can deny it and everyone is happy.

[Z3r05t4r 855]

 

Or at least someone who really dedicates himself to the dirty business. Be it a GM or as visible in the picture above, War Moderator.